CineForm support for Sony XDCAM EX

[Steven Thomas]

Originally Posted by David Newman

There is an advantage to using the EX's native MP4 files as they can contain the prized 1920x1080 images, whereas the current Sony MXF implementation only support 1440x1080. This is why we went to trouble of support the MP4 files directly.

This is very good news David! I'll be upgrading my Neo HDV to NEO HD to use with Sony Vegas.

[Peter Kraft]

Originally Posted by David Newman

No advantage using MXF over MP4 files. In both cases we remove the wrappers to extract the MPEG2 core and audio stream and convert that data to CineForm AVI.

David, tell me you are not kidding. Your codec works with Final Cut as well and it seems to make sense to use it during the complete workflow but why on earth then via AVI and not QT on a Mac? Or did I miss something?

[David Newman]

Originally Posted by Peter Kraft

David, tell me you are not kidding. Your codec works with Final Cut as well and it seems to make sense to use it during the complete workflow but why on earth then via AVI and not QT on a Mac? Or did I miss something?

If you are intending to move the files to the Mac or you are running HDLink under Parallel or other Windows emulator, then you should specify MOV in the Prefs panel. CineForm wrapped as either AVI or MOV will work on both platforms, yet there are benefits to the AVI wrapper while on the PC and the MOV wrapper while on the Mac. If you need to convert an AVI to an MOV or visa versa, we that a re-wrapping option that is as fast as you disk speed (no recompression.)

[Peter Wright]

Originally Posted by David Newman

There is an advantage to using the EX's native MP4 files as they can contain the prized 1920x1080 images, whereas the current Sony MXF implementation only supports 1440x1080. This is why we went to trouble of supporting the MP4 files directly.

David, could you please clarify this - I have some downloaded EX1 footage which after converted to MXF with the Sony Browser is still reported as 1920 x 1080 when put on the Vegas timeline.

[Peter Kraft]

Originally Posted by David Newman

If you are intending to move the files to the Mac or you are running HDLink under Parallel or other Windows emulator, then you should specify MOV in the Prefs panel. CineForm wrapped as either AVI or MOV will work on both platforms, yet there are benefits to the AVI wrapper while on the PC and the MOV wrapper while on the Mac. If you need to convert an AVI to an MOV or visa versa, we that a re-wrapping option that is as fast as you disk speed (no recompression.)

David, thanks for that quick explanation. As I am on a Mac I will stick to MOV. But it's good to know how simple it is to change borders.

[David Newman]

Originally Posted by Peter Wright

David, could you please clarify this - I have some downloaded EX1 footage which after converted to MXF with the Sony Browser is still reported as 1920 x 1080 when put on the Vegas timeline.

It could be Sony fixed the problem. With our version of the EX browser tool, it would not convert any 1920x1080 media to MXF, only the 1440x1080 would correctly convert. Anyway, direct use of MP4s saves a step.

[Erwin van Dijck]

David,

I have a small test-clip available for you:
http://www.dendv.nl/elements/test/

The MXF file is straight out of the EX camera, it is recorded at the highest quality (1080-50i, 1920x1080 35mbps).

After converting with the 3.2.2 Neo beta version I end up with an avi that is completely green with an out-of-sync audio track.

I really hope I am doing something wrong over here, cause I would like to use the cinecodec!

Regards,
Erwin

[David Newman]

Thank you that footage will help us solve the problem. This is what happens when Sony only gives us footage, not a camera, we where not aware that the camera could record to 1920x1080 MXFs, all the samples they provided where MP4s. Shoot with MP4s for now.

[Erwin van Dijck]

Originally Posted by David Newman

Shoot with MP4s for now.

Ok, but I have 800+ clips already in MXF format now :-(

At least MXF files are playable on the PC with the MXF-viewer (mp4's don't work), and MXF is also playable in Vegas (dragging a mp4 directly into Vegas doesn't work, MXF does as it is supported).

BTW: the camera records mp4's, and with the supplied SONY clip browsing tool you are supposed to "empty" the SxS cards and copy them to your hard drive. It then unwrappes the mp4's to MXF for you automatically.

Regards,
Erwin

[Serena Steuart]

Originally Posted by David Newman

It could be Sony fixed the problem. With our version of the EX browser tool, it would not convert any 1920x1080 media to MXF, only the 1440x1080 would correctly convert. Anyway, direct use of MP4s saves a step.

The latest version (1.1) of the Browser handles 1920 x 1080. Vegas handles that very well.

Does NEO HD also process HDV (replacing NEO HDV)?

[Steven Thomas]

Serena, according to Cineform's comparison page :
http://www.cineform.com/products/NeoHD.htm

NEO HD offers all the features of NEO HDV with these additional features:
10-bit I/O (NEO HDV 8 bit)
1920x1080 (NEO HDV max is 1440x1080)
CineForm RAW Encoding (Windows Only) (not included with NEO HDV)

[David Newman]

Thank you for your quick bug reports, all these issues have now been fixed. Prospect HD and NEO HD builds are up with fixes for 1920 MXFs files and weird thumbnail and exports for progressively encoded frames.

Prospect HD: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Pr...148-071217.zip
NEO HD: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/NE...148-071217.zip

[David Newman]

I would love feedback from those that had issues with the previous beta. I expect you will no longer have those issue, but it is nice to know for sure.

[Mooho Bae]

David,
Your new build cleaned up all the problems I reported(MXF converting, importing into both Premiere pro 2.0 & Vegas pro 8.0a). I'm really happy with new NEo HD. Thank you so much!!

Edit: Everting looks OK, but I edited about 2 miniuts footage in Premire pro 2.0 and exported as AVI with Cineform codec, but, the renderded video freezes after about 1 and a half miniute. I tried exporting several times, but the footage freezes at the exactly same moment.

[David Newman]

Originally Posted by Mooho Bae

David,
Your new build cleaned up all the problems I reported(MXF converting, importing into both Premiere pro 2.0 & Vegas pro 8.0a). I'm really happy with new NEo HD. Thank you so much!!

Edit: Everting looks OK, but I edited about 2 miniuts footage in Premire pro 2.0 and exported as AVI with Cineform codec, but, the renderded video freezes after about 1 and a half miniute. I tried exporting several times, but the footage freezes at the exactly same moment.

Hmm, there have been no code changes for export. We don't test NEO with Premiere as Aspect/Prospect is designed for that product. Can you tell be anything about the point in the timeline where it fails so we can try and repeat it here?