<please try the settings below and tell me what you think please.>

O.K. i show your PP in my vectorscop with colorchart.....

I have been on this forum for quite a while and have recently purchased the PMW-EX3 after the advice I have been reading on this forum area.

I would just like to thank you all for the work you are doing on profiles which I find very useful.
Many thanks

Gary

Luben's Film Curve (My EX1R with vectorscop and DSC-Laboratories colorchart.

Hi Wolfgang,

I appreciate your effort to get the best color and latitude possible, but....

- have you also considered the detail vs. noise factors?

<- have you also considered the detail vs. noise factors?>

Yes, calibrate on ISO 12233 Test Chart.

Well, what I mean is your settings for Frequency and Crispening (also, Black/White Limiter).

Quite opposite to what has been long established as optimizing detail vs. noise, don't you think?

If you have investigated this thoroughly, I'd appreciate a more detailed explanation.

Thanks

Piotr

Crisping:
+ value = no details, no noise
- Value = more details, more noise

frequency:
+ value = no details
- value = more details

adjusted optical from my sony flat screen.

Thank you
 

Thank you Wolfgang!,
That's a pretty good looking chart, isn't?....;-) I am sure that could get better in the v-scope.
Danke Wolf!
Luben

<I am sure that could get better in the v-scope. >

Cine1 - cine4 not good for neutrally colors!

Hi there,
Attached below is my attempt at a side-by-side comparison of a number of different picture profiles, copied and pasted from contributors to this thread.

I've owned an EX-1 practically since they came out in 2008, and — this is a personal confession — I've never bothered with picture profiles, mostly because I had so much else to learn. Today I decided to see if there were any posts on the subject, and I've spent the last few hours immersed in this thread. Way too much information for me to remember, particularly as most of it's Greek to me in the first place, so I decided my only hope would be to create a chart that listed different picture profiles, side-by-side. Then perhaps I'd be able to stand back from it and make some sense of it.

For better or for worse — and with apologies to both the picture-profile authors whose settings I might have gotten wrong (sometimes I'd get them from a poster who was repeating them), and to those whose picture profiles I've inadvertently left out — attached below is the beginning of a chart that people might find useful.
I do understand, after reading through those 38 pages, that settings sometimes come down to personal preference: some people like certain colours or 'looks' whatever better than others, and some people would rather correct in post.

But what I'd really like to do (because I edit my own stuff, and don't want to have to correct in editing if I can help it) is get a few really nice picture profiles that will work for daytime outside, night-time outside, inside incandescent and inside fluorescent. Or... if there is one really good one, a pp that will be a really good general pp.

I'll attempt to attach this. And if in fact any of you think this might be useful, I hope you'll correct it (some pp's may be out of date; remember, this thread started in 2008) or add to it. And thanks to all of you who contributed these picture profiles over the years.
Regards, Malcolm

Since posting the above note and Excel chart yesterday I've tested out most of the pp settings, and I've come up with a subset that I think will work for me. I'll post it below.

Here's my strategy: I want to cover as many bases as possible, so I've got —

PP1: (Doug Jenson's) for all-round EXTERIOR/INTERIOR shooting
PP2: (A. Shipsides) a Hi-Sat look that seems to me to work really nicely for EXT. shooting on bright, sunny days
PP3: not selected yet
PP4: (A. Shipsides) for FLOURESCENT lighting
PP5: not selected yet
PP6: (Oliver Neubert) for STAGE, high contrast (spotlights, dark curtains, etc.)

Any comments or observations?
Any suggestions for PP3 and PP5?

Regards, Malcolm

Thank you so much for creating the spreadsheet!! Probably like so many others on this list, I've been meaning to do the same, but didn't get a chance.

The thought also occured to me that your spreadsheet is also the perfect place for me to write down my own PP in case it got deleted! (duh)

For the most part, I don't tend to change the PPs. It's a matter of opinion, and for the style/type of work you are doing. For me, a lot of my work is outdoors, and it is the following (and my personal comments towards each):

PP1: Doug Jensen's - General purpose, conservative and a bit flat, for color grading
PP2: My Own (below) - Cross between Doug and Shipman's HD Norm with more contrast and saturation
PP3: Super Sat (my own) - Same as PP2 with even more saturation for that Panasonic over-sat look (things really pop)
PP4: Alister Chapman's - Great for sky, landscape
PP5: Phil Bloom's - More filmic
PP6: Shipman's "HD Norm" - Higher contrast

Matrix: On, Hi Sat, Level 4, Phase 2, R-G -3. R-B -3, all else 0
Color Correction: Off
While Offset: Off, Preset at 5600
Detail: On, Level -10, all others default
Skin Tone: Off
Knee On, Auto Off, Point 85, Slope 1, Knee Sat Level 50
Gamma Level: 0, STD4, Black -2, Black Gamma 02, Low Key SAT default

I hope my PP is within 'broadcast safe', whatever that means these days. Obviously, things like the Tiffen T1 and a polarizer effect things as well.

Matching with a Canon XL-H1
 

has anyone tried matching an EX1 with a Canon XL-H1? i'm gonna do some testing of my own Wednesday evening, but I wanted to get a head start on any tips you might have.

thanks in advance!!

-Mike

Where is your spreadsheet????

Fred,
I think Ed was referring to a spreadsheet I posted a link to (see attached file below); what Ed did is add a couple of his picture profiles directly to his post (I found them very interesting and intend to try them out).
Regards, Malcolm

Sorry if I have missed them, but seems that most the profiles are for outside, or well lit venues.

Anyone want to share something good for dark churches, wedding receptions and stage shows.
I do a lot of video work that really pushes the gain.

Thanks.

Has any one been using wolgangs -3db pp? If so what are you results with it.

Thanks in advance

What preset would you guys use for available light night street scenes?

Would you Cine1 or Cine3?

Would you apply gain or use Black/Black Gamma?

Question
 

Hey guys, is there any way to convert these profiles to work with the HXR-NX5?
There is little to no information on picture profiles for the NX5.

Thanks guys.

This is my EX1 setting to match my VariCam It is designed for post color correction to be shown on HD broadcast . This is for a scripted comedy. The camera was teched to a DSC chart with whites at 80 IRE and all settings on as was the VariCam. So this is how the is set up when I shoot. It seems whites expose at 78 IRE for good flesh tones.

ZLBH4

MATRIX…..On
Select……….HiSat
Level………..-26
Phase………..3
R-G…………95
R-B………….43
G-R………….31
G-B…………47
B-R…………..5
B-G………….82
COLOR CORRECTION
Setting………..Off
WHITE……….Off
Offset…………Auto White Balance
PRESET WHITE……6200
DETAIL…..On
Level…..-5
Frequency…..30
CRISPENING…..-45
H/V RATIO…..0
WHITE LIMITER…..75
BLACK LIMITER…..75
V DTL CREATION…..y
KNEE APT LEVEL…..0
SKINTONE DETAIL…..off
KNEE
Auto-knee
Point
Slope
Knee SAT level
GAMMA Level…..2
Select…..CINE1
BLACK…..-3
BLACK GAMMA…..0
LOW KEY SAT……0

Would there be any way to take these profiles from this forum and use the settings in an Sony HXR-NX5?

There is very little information available for picture profiles on this camera, and there is so much here.

Thanks guys.

It's not the numbers
 

The numbers are pretty much arbitrary. The DSC chart doesn't lie. That is why I have included the waveform and vector scope. You can match a look by matching to frame grabs from a Waveform Vector scope. The downside is you need a waveform/vector scope. You need the cameras to be set up similarly. You are supposed to match VariCams in Video Rec, whites at 100 IRE. So you kind of need to know this info. This is why right or wrong I match my cameras on the mode I will shoot them in.

Re: Picture Profile Recipes
 

John,

I have the NX5 and I would think you could use these PP settings as a starting point to acheive a certain look, then adjust. I think with the NX5 having smaller sensors etc the outcome would be different with the exact same settings mentioned in this thread.

PP is something I have not experimented with yet as most of what I have shot has not called for it but I do plan on attempting to get as close to the DSLR look of rich colors and crushed blacks as possible. I wish there was a more layman terms book/DVD out there that explained the Picture Profile settings and what adjustments can result in. I know the manual breaks each setting down but if I recall I was pretty lost, I will revisit that as well.

If anyone knows of some good references via literature or video on this subject, please post.

Re: Picture Profile Recipes
 

Dave,

Make a note of the default settings and then apply -100% and +100%, you should soon see what each effect produces. Most books skirt about too much, the best way to learn is to do practical tests of your own.

Matching to HVR-Z5P
 

I have invested about 6 hours staring down side-by-side calibrating EX1R and Z5P cameras and have arrived at point where I very happy with the two cameras closely matching on colour. Even with the Z5P running -6dB it's still more noise than 1/2" @ -3dB but that is to be expected and I was looking closely @42" screens.

My testing was hardly scientific - both cameras 1080i mode, component analogue HD into two 42" Sony Bravias. Both displays to neutral with sharpness down - I reversed the cables mid-test a couple of times to be sure the subtle differences I observed weren't the monitors - to my surprise the subtle differences were reflected afterwards so the display were pretty consistent for consumer items.

Baseline was the EX1R set-up based on the BBC profile with some very slight changes from Alister Chapman profile suggestions, I just grabbed colourful items within reach and aspects resembling skin tone - phone snap:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5029/...db34837381.jpg
IMAG0073 by cudex, on Flickr

Spent some time matching the green-screen in background - I figured it represented foliage and grass for outdoor shoots so persevered with it. I finally nailed it but only after doubling up a correction on green phase on Z5P.


HVR Z5P

White preset 5600

Gamma ITU709
Black Gamma
range : Middle
Level 0
Knee auto
max pt 90%
sensitivity middle
color mode
type ITU709 MTX
L 2
color depth
R -2
M-7
Y-2
color correction
color revision
mem sel 1&2
Mem 1 col
phase 20
range 14
sat 10
mem 1 revision
R gain +8
B gain -1
mem 2 col same as mem 1
mem 2 rev
R gain +15
B gain -15


EX1R picture profile “BBC5600” based on BBC recommended settings for video (if setting isn;t specified it using default value)

Matrix ON
Select Standard

White preset 5600

Detail ON
Freq 0
Crispening -45
H/V ratio 0
White limiter 0
Black limiter 0
V DTL creation Y
Knee APT level 0

Skin tone detail OFF

Knee ON
Auto OFF
Point 87
Slope +50
Gamma STD3

Poppy the green screen cherry this Friday
 

so, as the title suggests i am shooting my first green screen job this Friday. its just a basic interview with our subject in front of the screen. so, i was wondering what 's a good PP for this type of shot. i'm aware of the normal concerns such as using the lowest gain, -3db, and turning Detail off to pull a clean matte. what else makes for a good clean composite?

thanks in advance,
Mike

Re: Picture Profile Recipes
 

I would suggest shooting in a progressive mode for a cleaner matte. A lot will also depend on which software you're using for creating the mask. After Effects comes with an excellent plug-in called Keylight.

Film Noir look
 

anybody know of a good Film Noir look PP?

Re: Picture Profile Recipes
 

Hi Bill,

Would it be possible to post your attachment as an excel or word file? I'm not yet at the stage on the learning curve where I'm storing PPs on my card. :)

Re: Picture Profile Recipes
 

Bill cont'd....
That would be the attachment from post No. 120 in this thread......

Re: Picture Profile Recipes
 

Hey all,

I'm currently really trying to figure out the Detail menu on my EX1R and how to cancel out Sony's notorious over-sharpening of the image and at the same time preserve enough detail to justify the resolution of the sensor and reduce sensor noise.

Currently, I run this:

Detail Level: -10
Frequency: +8
Crispening: +20

The rest is Doug Jensen's PP.

Attached is what that looks like in HQ 35mbps. Gain was -3db. I'll be shooting 100mbps nanoFlash Long GOP down the line, hence why I'm asking about noise reduction.

Now, of particular concern are the thin branches in the trees. Looking at the screenshot, did I overcompensate and unsharpen too much? or is it fine as is? I'm trying to be somewhat subtle about cancelling out the Sony oversharpening.

Re: Picture Profile Recipes
 

Another thread about crispening:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...upression.html

-3db lowers your dynamic range.

Re: Picture Profile Recipes
 

I have an in depth look at crispening here:

Picture Profiles – Crispening _ How to clean up your image. | XDCAM-USER.COM

Jack, you might want to try crisping at -60 and then look at your branches again. You will get a little more noise, but subtle details will be a little sharper.

Re: Picture Profile Recipes
 

My biggest concern is once I do receive my nanoFlash, more noise is captured via the better codec. This is why I want to reduce it but at the same time still have enough detail leftover to make the image superior to something like the NX5 or my HV30. I chose -3db specifically to catch less noise and currently, it shows even in 35mbps.

I've now set Crispening to 10 since I thought 20 was too strong. I still get detail loss, but it isn't as noticeable as 20.

Re: Picture Profile Recipes
 

Mark: There are some serious issues with your PP as detailed below. Even at 0db you will not reach peak white at the combination of knee point 87 and slope +50 is restricting your peak output level. If you use the histogram you will see that peak output never gets all the way to the right, in fact it's quite some way from peak output. At most you don't want the slope at more than +10 with the knee at 87. If you then add -3d to that combination your in even more trouble, reducing peak white even more.

You need to be very careful when using -3db gain as it reduces both dynamic range and on the EX cameras, peak recording level. If you have access to a waveform monitor you can adjust the gamma gain to compensate for the reduce peak white level, but by the time you have done that you only get about a 1.5 to 2 db noise decrease at the expense of a half stop (3db) reduction in dynamic range.

Ultimately, any changes to gamma, crisping, detail or the use of negative gain will only bring very small differences in the noise performance. You will never make a dramatic difference, only perhaps small improvements.

Whatever you do, especially anything that alters the gamma curves or knee you do need to check your output levels with a waveform monitor or at the very minimum the histogram.

Re: Picture Profile Recipes
 

Is my attached sheet still correct?

Re: Picture Profile Recipes
 

I was wondering whether anyone could reccomend a picture profile for shooting in a fully lit green screen studio environment shooting one full length person to camera.(with autocue, mirror and snood)

I have a brand new EX1R and am also new to having so much flexability so could do with some help if at all possible. At present I'm using Doug Jensons pp, which I'm happy with but keen to understand if there are any more specific profiles available for this type of shoot.

Many thanks
Mark

ps I have read through all 40 pages on this thread and there's some great info but nothing specific to my requirements, I have also scoured the web to no avail.

Re: Picture Profile Recipes
 

If you have control over your lighting then Std gamma 3, manual knee with knee point at 85 and shoot progressive for the best key would be the way I would go. I would also consider turning the camera through 90 degrees so the actor uses more of the now vertical frame.

Re: Picture Profile Recipes
 

Just gonna ask this for the new PMW-200 owners:

What would be the equivalent of the "High Sat" matrix on the EX1R for the 200?