Jerky Zoom - Sony's reply: That is normal

Craig Seeman · March 18th, 2009, 08:14 AM

Hanno, try the zoom without the remote control. Try setting the top handle "fixed" zoom to a number like 2. If the zoom is jerky it has NOTHING to do with the remote control and I wouldn't even reference it in a trouble report.

Connection inside the camera can go bad too. If the camera exhibits the same issue with multiple remotes then the camera is at fault. Sony MUST test the contact point.

Why are they giving you such a hard time? It seems all the rest of us with zoom issues around the world have had lens or camera replaced when the issue was discovered.

George Kroonder · March 18th, 2009, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanno Klein

Sony say: "We are unable to guarantee functionality with non-SONY products and In my opinion the unit is working correctly as to our expectations"

They won´t test the Camera with the Remote Conrtol because it is not a Sony product ??? Sony doesn´t has a Remote Control.

So there are three issues here really:
1. Jerky slow zoom
2. Different behaviour of the EX1's with 1.12 as opposed to older units
3. Use of non-Sony accessories

Jerky zoom may be an issue with the lens gears or servos, or possibly dirt. If that is the case jerkiness would also be present when you set the Zoom Speed preset and use the remote or handle. A.f.a.i.k. there is no mention that speeds under 10 would not be "guaranteed to work".

In my opinion if slow zoom speed is jerky on a new camera this should be fixed under warranty. For the "under 10" claim ask Sony not for confirmation in writing, but where this is mentioned in the cameras documentation (i.e. manual, datasheet, etc.).

The differences in behaviour between units with different firmware may indicate that there is a possible issue with that newer firmware version. Possibly the slow zoom function is not working as it should. This can only be verified by loading a version that is known to work correctly and this has to be preformed by Sony support (as users cannot upgrade the firmware themselves). Since this is a new cam and Sony should deliver a working unit they should support this effort.

Sony has no (or very limited) responsibilities to support 3rd party accessories and doesn't support end users of those products. You should contact Manfrotto/Bebob for support for the zoom controllers. It may be that the Sony firmware change has sparked an incompatibility with these controllers. Downgrading the firmware may help here as well.

If there is a problem with the lens/gears/servos (test with remote) send it back to be fixed. Also have them downgrade the firmware to the same version as on your other camera's.

You also may want to ask Manfrotto/Bebob is there are compatibility issues with 1.12.

regards,
George.

George Kroonder · March 18th, 2009, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

Why are they giving you such a hard time?

While I agree that things have not moved forward smoothly, they have send him a couple of new cams already so I suspect it is not unwillingness but more of a "not knowing how to handle this" issue.

George/

Hanno Klein · March 18th, 2009, 11:28 AM

Today i got a call from Bebob with their explanations:

He told me that he never had one EX1 which works perfectly with a Remote Control. This is because the PMW-EX1 uses his own protocol from Fujinon with 3V and not the Broadcast Protocol which uses 5V. The reason for 3V is to safe energy.

It is also an analog protocol. He told me that there is no Remote Control in market which works perfectly with the EX1/EX3 models because the manufacturing tolerance for the lens is to large. And with the 3V protocol the electricity flow is very low to move so much glas and so at times the lens get stucked. And so it is.

He also said that the main handle do not go over the protocol, it is directly connected to the lens and so there is no jerky zoom. I also told me that many many people called him with the same problem.....i did not read anything about that problem.

The proctocol does not allow to control the foucs, so you can not use the camera on a crane.

By the way my Top Zoom handle set to speed of 2 works just fine...so it mus be the rc

mmh...

So what is the clue? He told me to use a manual zoom wheel like from chrosziel :) and that we can be very lucky to have two EX1 which working perfectly with the Remote Control.

So who can confirm a slow zoom like in the video with a remote control - jerky or not?

Paul Kellett · March 18th, 2009, 11:41 AM

My Libec controller is ok, model ZC-9EX, my colleague also has the libec on his EX1 and he hasn't reported any issues either.

Paul.

Ted OMalley · March 18th, 2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Kellett

My Libec controller is ok, model ZC-9EX, my colleague also has the libec on his EX1 and he hasn't reported any issues either.

Paul.

Mine as well - no issues.

Hanno Klein · March 19th, 2009, 11:02 AM

no one has a Beob or a Manfrotto Remote Control?

May be we need a libec...

Justin Carlson · March 19th, 2009, 11:06 AM

I have a Bebob remote and haven't had any issues with a jerky zoom since Sony Canada replaced my lens.

George Kroonder · March 19th, 2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanno Klein

no one has a Beob or a Manfrotto Remote Control?

Maybe open a new topic asking for users' experience regarding zoom issues with the Bebob or Manfrotto? Something like "What's you experience: Bebob/Manfrotto zoom controllers?"

George/

Keith Moreau · March 19th, 2009, 11:42 AM

I have the Manfrotto 521EX control. I got it over the Bebob because of the lower price and it seemed to have more features. It's a solidly built control, however at even the lowest dialed setting on the Manfrotto max speed dial, you still have to be gentle with the rocker or it will go faster than the lowest speed. On my Lanc Bebob, which I love, the lowest dialed in setting, the rocker would only go at one speed, which is a lot easier to use. The rocker on the Manfrotto is a bit smaller than the Bebob, so not quite as ergonomic, but it seems a little less fragile than the Bebob Lanc, which I did send in once because the dial broke (it just kept spinning with no stop anymore).

As far as smoothness, I have one of the very early EX1's and it's pretty darn smooth, so I guess I'm lucky.

Piotr Wozniacki · March 19th, 2009, 11:42 AM

My Manfrotto 521ex is silky smooth, compared to what I can see in the example clip.

And, it's capable of creep zooms lasting over 2 mins from end to end!

Justin Carlson · March 31st, 2009, 09:48 AM

So, a few weeks ago Sony Canada replaced my lens because of the jerky zoom.
But now this new lens had a few more difficulties. Sometime it wouldn't zoom at all and other times (randomly) I could only achieve a minimum focus of about 15 feet on full manual. It was really weird.
Sony now has my camera again and is now changing it up with 'another' new lens. We'll see how this one handles now.

Duncan Craig · March 31st, 2009, 02:09 PM

I have the Bebob for my EX1 and it's really sticky at low speeds. Unusable to be honest.
So I have to zoom at higher speeds and try to start and end zooms quicker.

The rockers on the camera are OK.

Surely the best approach would be to have a power supply in the controller, such as a 9v battery. This could then be a digital device supplying a variable voltage to the camera lens.

Michael Pruitt-Bruun · July 18th, 2009, 05:02 PM

from my experience, and from what folks have posted here, it's not a problem of remote zooms being compatible. and regardless of what Sony America may be trying to put it off to, it isn't a function of the slow zoom setting when using the software speed control in conjunction with the top, handle-mounted zoom rocker.

on my ex3 (only a few weeks old) the problem is present with remote zooms, with the primary rocker at the lens, and with the handle-mounted rocker set at slow speed.

having found the threshold of activation, starting from full wide, the zoom will pulse or stutter under a constant rocker position. it moves, then stops or slows, without any change to the rocker. i thought that maybe if i started slow, then quickly accelerated to move past this problem point in the control, that i could ramp into a faster zoom. not a fix, but still looking for *some functionality.* the attempt to ramp up the zoom also induced a stall at exactly the point when more pressure was applied to the rocker.

it isn't possible to do anything but a medium-to-fast zoom. try shooting an interview like that. or any shot where you might want a soft squeeze.

our dealer (EC Pro Vid, in Manhattan) have been very supportive and offered the use of an ex1 as a loaner. they sent our ex3 to Teaneck for us and this past week i spoke to the tech at Sony. he started to tell me that if the problem was with the top handle-mounted rocker, controlled by the camera's software, that Sony didn't care. i told him i don't really care about that rocker either, i never use it anyway. i would like to be able to use a remote zoom, but since i can't even use the primary rocker for slow zooms, they need to address that.

if you can't use the primary rocker to properly control the zoom, then it's no surprise that a remote won't work. this is not a problem of third party remote compatibility.

from reading here and elsewhere i proceeded with the purchase with the understanding that this problem on earlier cameras had been addressed. it seems to have come back with newer cameras though. i certainly hope Sony America sees fit to fix it, as it's unusable as it is and a bit too expensive to eat the loss or let it go. as this problem becomes more widespread it can't encourage new purchases.

i'll post my results.

Hanno Klein · December 10th, 2009, 10:53 AM

Here we go again...

In April i found an exhibit EX1 with no jerky Zoom. I was happy...

Until November...the focus stopped working..so i had to send the camera to Sony.

Sony replaced the lens....ouch.

And here we go again: Now i get a so damn bad jerky Zoom, you can´t even use the Bebob or the Manfrotoo Lens Controller. But now the main Zoom handle works badly too. 2 of 5 times i get a jerky Zoom --> Here you can see one example:

RapidShare Webhosting + Webspace

Sony say: Thats normal. No Replacment. ouch.

Am i to fussy and is that really normal....? I can´t believe that.

By the way the labeling on the camera went off. 8 buttons with no labeling. I want, like Sony did before, that they replace the body. But now they say: Sorry this is abrasion, no replacement. Ouch again.

March 18th, 2009, 11:41 AM	#20
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	My Libec controller is ok, model ZC-9EX, my colleague also has the libec on his EX1 and he hasn't reported any issues either. Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

March 19th, 2009, 11:06 AM	#23
Justin Carlson Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 173	I have a Bebob remote and haven't had any issues with a jerky zoom since Sony Canada replaced my lens. __________________ Justin http://www.carlsonmedia.ca

March 19th, 2009, 11:42 AM	#26
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	My Manfrotto 521ex is silky smooth, compared to what I can see in the example clip. And, it's capable of creep zooms lasting over 2 mins from end to end! __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

March 31st, 2009, 09:48 AM	#27
Justin Carlson Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 173	Update So, a few weeks ago Sony Canada replaced my lens because of the jerky zoom. But now this new lens had a few more difficulties. Sometime it wouldn't zoom at all and other times (randomly) I could only achieve a minimum focus of about 15 feet on full manual. It was really weird. Sony now has my camera again and is now changing it up with 'another' new lens. We'll see how this one handles now. __________________ Justin http://www.carlsonmedia.ca

March 31st, 2009, 02:09 PM	#28
Duncan Craig Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 660 Images: 10	I have the Bebob for my EX1 and it's really sticky at low speeds. Unusable to be honest. So I have to zoom at higher speeds and try to start and end zooms quicker. The rockers on the camera are OK. Surely the best approach would be to have a power supply in the controller, such as a 9v battery. This could then be a digital device supplying a variable voltage to the camera lens. __________________ FCPX/LS300/EX1/FS100/GoPro/Vinten/HotHead/Jib/Track/Dedos/Lightstorm/Coollights

March 18th, 2009, 08:14 AM	#16
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Hanno, try the zoom without the remote control. Try setting the top handle "fixed" zoom to a number like 2. If the zoom is jerky it has NOTHING to do with the remote control and I wouldn't even reference it in a trouble report. Connection inside the camera can go bad too. If the camera exhibits the same issue with multiple remotes then the camera is at fault. Sony MUST test the contact point. Why are they giving you such a hard time? It seems all the rest of us with zoom issues around the world have had lens or camera replaced when the issue was discovered.

March 18th, 2009, 11:28 AM	#19
Hanno Klein New Boot Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Cologne Posts: 19	Today i got a call from Bebob with their explanations: He told me that he never had one EX1 which works perfectly with a Remote Control. This is because the PMW-EX1 uses his own protocol from Fujinon with 3V and not the Broadcast Protocol which uses 5V. The reason for 3V is to safe energy. It is also an analog protocol. He told me that there is no Remote Control in market which works perfectly with the EX1/EX3 models because the manufacturing tolerance for the lens is to large. And with the 3V protocol the electricity flow is very low to move so much glas and so at times the lens get stucked. And so it is. He also said that the main handle do not go over the protocol, it is directly connected to the lens and so there is no jerky zoom. I also told me that many many people called him with the same problem.....i did not read anything about that problem. The proctocol does not allow to control the foucs, so you can not use the camera on a crane. By the way my Top Zoom handle set to speed of 2 works just fine...so it mus be the rc mmh... So what is the clue? He told me to use a manual zoom wheel like from chrosziel :) and that we can be very lucky to have two EX1 which working perfectly with the Remote Control. So who can confirm a slow zoom like in the video with a remote control - jerky or not?

March 19th, 2009, 11:02 AM	#22
Hanno Klein New Boot Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Cologne Posts: 19	no one has a Beob or a Manfrotto Remote Control? May be we need a libec...

March 19th, 2009, 11:42 AM	#25
Keith Moreau Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Brisbane, California Posts: 530	I have the Manfrotto 521EX control. I got it over the Bebob because of the lower price and it seemed to have more features. It's a solidly built control, however at even the lowest dialed setting on the Manfrotto max speed dial, you still have to be gentle with the rocker or it will go faster than the lowest speed. On my Lanc Bebob, which I love, the lowest dialed in setting, the rocker would only go at one speed, which is a lot easier to use. The rocker on the Manfrotto is a bit smaller than the Bebob, so not quite as ergonomic, but it seems a little less fragile than the Bebob Lanc, which I did send in once because the dial broke (it just kept spinning with no stop anymore). As far as smoothness, I have one of the very early EX1's and it's pretty darn smooth, so I guess I'm lucky.

July 18th, 2009, 05:02 PM	#29
Michael Pruitt-Bruun New Boot Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: nyc Posts: 20	from my experience, and from what folks have posted here, it's not a problem of remote zooms being compatible. and regardless of what Sony America may be trying to put it off to, it isn't a function of the slow zoom setting when using the software speed control in conjunction with the top, handle-mounted zoom rocker. on my ex3 (only a few weeks old) the problem is present with remote zooms, with the primary rocker at the lens, and with the handle-mounted rocker set at slow speed. having found the threshold of activation, starting from full wide, the zoom will pulse or stutter under a constant rocker position. it moves, then stops or slows, without any change to the rocker. i thought that maybe if i started slow, then quickly accelerated to move past this problem point in the control, that i could ramp into a faster zoom. not a fix, but still looking for some functionality. the attempt to ramp up the zoom also induced a stall at exactly the point when more pressure was applied to the rocker. it isn't possible to do anything but a medium-to-fast zoom. try shooting an interview like that. or any shot where you might want a soft squeeze. our dealer (EC Pro Vid, in Manhattan) have been very supportive and offered the use of an ex1 as a loaner. they sent our ex3 to Teaneck for us and this past week i spoke to the tech at Sony. he started to tell me that if the problem was with the top handle-mounted rocker, controlled by the camera's software, that Sony didn't care. i told him i don't really care about that rocker either, i never use it anyway. i would like to be able to use a remote zoom, but since i can't even use the primary rocker for slow zooms, they need to address that. if you can't use the primary rocker to properly control the zoom, then it's no surprise that a remote won't work. this is not a problem of third party remote compatibility. from reading here and elsewhere i proceeded with the purchase with the understanding that this problem on earlier cameras had been addressed. it seems to have come back with newer cameras though. i certainly hope Sony America sees fit to fix it, as it's unusable as it is and a bit too expensive to eat the loss or let it go. as this problem becomes more widespread it can't encourage new purchases. i'll post my results.

December 10th, 2009, 10:53 AM	#30
Hanno Klein New Boot Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Cologne Posts: 19	Same Same but Different Here we go again... In April i found an exhibit EX1 with no jerky Zoom. I was happy... Until November...the focus stopped working..so i had to send the camera to Sony. Sony replaced the lens....ouch. And here we go again: Now i get a so damn bad jerky Zoom, you can´t even use the Bebob or the Manfrotoo Lens Controller. But now the main Zoom handle works badly too. 2 of 5 times i get a jerky Zoom --> Here you can see one example: RapidShare Webhosting + Webspace Sony say: Thats normal. No Replacment. ouch. Am i to fussy and is that really normal....? I can´t believe that. By the way the labeling on the camera went off. 8 buttons with no labeling. I want, like Sony did before, that they replace the body. But now they say: Sorry this is abrasion, no replacement. Ouch again.