Recommendation for shooting scenery.

Robert Young · July 26th, 2009, 02:00 PM

60i vs 30p, Gee...it reminds me a little of Mac vs PC.
I've gone back and forth for several years and, for HD, finally have settled on:
1) shoot 60i
2) edit 60i HD DI
3) for BD the edit goes straight to 1080 60i BR and looks perfect
4) for DVD I rescale (careful here, not all rescalers are equal) the HD DI to either 480 60i or 30p .avi (usually stay 60i), transcode the SD.avi to m2v. On an HDMI DVD player to HDTV, the images are sharp and free of artifact.
Clearly the 30p experts have have perfected their process and get great results (Doug Jensen's DVDs certainly set a high standard), but it seems like there are also 60i workflows that work well, at least for BD & DVD.
I'm satisfied for the moment, and there is a lot to be said for having a workflow established that you feel confident about (no matter 60i or 30p). Allows me to pay more attention to the project rather than the process.
That said, who knows what I'll be doing next year.

John Peterson · July 26th, 2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

John,

I never shoot interlaced because I don't like the way it looks. I shoot 1080/30P 99% of the time and I have not changed my way of shooting one bit from the old days of Betacam and other 60i formats. I've never seen motion artifacts with the EX footage. If motion was a problem, you'd see it in the air show fotoage I posted on Vimeo a few weeks ago.

I think you're anticpating a problem that does not exist. Maybe that's why there haven't been too many people stepping forward with tips. There really aren't any tips to share. Just keep doing whatever you've been doing.

Thanks Doug,

Much appreciated. I did end up shooting progressive and it looks very good. And your air show footage looks great.
http://www.vimeo.com/5425091

John

Adam Reuter · July 27th, 2009, 07:03 PM

I'm a 1080/60i guy. Sorry...30p just looks jerky/blurry to me. That plus I've heard it is the worst format for cross-conversions between PAL and 24p...something to do with pulldown. I guess since I shoot a lot of hand-held stuff and HATE all the reality shows that are shot 24p because it's nothing but BLUR BLUR...man it makes me dizzy sometimes watching it.

I do prefer the look of native 60p on an LCD TV but I have reservations about the resolution. Depending on the TV de-interlaced 60i footage doesn't look so bad. Give me a 1080/60p option and I will shoot that format...interlacing for standard def delivery.

By the way, a good study on the issue of HDTV's deinterlacing engines: http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookme...ok2/index.html and http://hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/308testing/ . Basically the crappier TVs de-interlace to 540p and upconvert to 1080p or 720p (depending on your TV). The better engines will only de-interlace motion artifacts, retaining the native information available and giving a much better picture overall. Your transcoding software, if it's good, has this in it sometimes referred to as "motion adaptive de-interlacing" or something similar. Doing this in real-time is the kicker though. So it's not the format (60i) that looks bad, it's the way older HDTVs handle signals. The newer the TV, the more likely your 60i footage will look good.

John Peterson · July 28th, 2009, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Reuter

I'm a 1080/60i guy. Sorry...30p just looks jerky/blurry to me. That plus I've heard it is the worst format for cross-conversions between PAL and 24p...something to do with pulldown. I guess since I shoot a lot of hand-held stuff and HATE all the reality shows that are shot 24p because it's nothing but BLUR BLUR...man it makes me dizzy sometimes watching it.

I do prefer the look of native 60p on an LCD TV but I have reservations about the resolution. Depending on the TV de-interlaced 60i footage doesn't look so bad. Give me a 1080/60p option and I will shoot that format...interlacing for standard def delivery.

By the way, a good study on the issue of HDTV's deinterlacing engines: Home Theater: Are You Getting All of the HDTV Resolution You Expected? Round 3 and Home Theater: Testing HDTVs part 2 . Basically the crappier TVs de-interlace to 540p and upconvert to 1080p or 720p (depending on your TV). The better engines will only de-interlace motion artifacts, retaining the native information available and giving a much better picture overall. Your transcoding software, if it's good, has this in it sometimes referred to as "motion adaptive de-interlacing" or something similar. Doing this in real-time is the kicker though. So it's not the format (60i) that looks bad, it's the way older HDTVs handle signals. The newer the TV, the more likely your 60i footage will look good.

Which transcoding software are you using Adam?

John

Adam Reuter · July 28th, 2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Peterson

Which transcoding software are you using Adam?

John

Canopus Procoder 3

John Peterson · July 29th, 2009, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Reuter

Canopus Procoder 3

That's the one I use. It is very good.

John

July 26th, 2009, 02:00 PM	#16
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	60i vs 30p, Gee...it reminds me a little of Mac vs PC. I've gone back and forth for several years and, for HD, finally have settled on: 1) shoot 60i 2) edit 60i HD DI 3) for BD the edit goes straight to 1080 60i BR and looks perfect 4) for DVD I rescale (careful here, not all rescalers are equal) the HD DI to either 480 60i or 30p .avi (usually stay 60i), transcode the SD.avi to m2v. On an HDMI DVD player to HDTV, the images are sharp and free of artifact. Clearly the 30p experts have have perfected their process and get great results (Doug Jensen's DVDs certainly set a high standard), but it seems like there are also 60i workflows that work well, at least for BD & DVD. I'm satisfied for the moment, and there is a lot to be said for having a workflow established that you feel confident about (no matter 60i or 30p). Allows me to pay more attention to the project rather than the process. That said, who knows what I'll be doing next year. __________________ Bob Last edited by Robert Young; July 26th, 2009 at 05:27 PM.

July 27th, 2009, 07:03 PM	#18
Adam Reuter Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 234	I'm a 1080/60i guy. Sorry...30p just looks jerky/blurry to me. That plus I've heard it is the worst format for cross-conversions between PAL and 24p...something to do with pulldown. I guess since I shoot a lot of hand-held stuff and HATE all the reality shows that are shot 24p because it's nothing but BLUR BLUR...man it makes me dizzy sometimes watching it. I do prefer the look of native 60p on an LCD TV but I have reservations about the resolution. Depending on the TV de-interlaced 60i footage doesn't look so bad. Give me a 1080/60p option and I will shoot that format...interlacing for standard def delivery. By the way, a good study on the issue of HDTV's deinterlacing engines: http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookme...ok2/index.html and http://hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/308testing/ . Basically the crappier TVs de-interlace to 540p and upconvert to 1080p or 720p (depending on your TV). The better engines will only de-interlace motion artifacts, retaining the native information available and giving a much better picture overall. Your transcoding software, if it's good, has this in it sometimes referred to as "motion adaptive de-interlacing" or something similar. Doing this in real-time is the kicker though. So it's not the format (60i) that looks bad, it's the way older HDTVs handle signals. The newer the TV, the more likely your 60i footage will look good. Last edited by Adam Reuter; July 27th, 2009 at 07:55 PM.