clip information

Doug Jensen · August 4th, 2009, 09:04 AM

Hi David,

It's tough to say what is going on with your footage because 1/50th is certainly the recommended setting for 25P. Are you sure the shutter switch under the lens is actually turned on? Are you shooting with an f-stop of f/5.6 or larger?

I'll admit that I never have any reason to shoot 25P, but on the rare occassions when I shoot 24P I use 1/48th and I've been completely happy with the results. And I always use 1/60th for 30P.

Vincent Oliver · August 4th, 2009, 02:05 PM

How are you viewing your footage (clips), if using the XDCAM EX browser then that can look juddery. Depending on your NLE, the clips can also lose their smoothness until rendered.

I learnt the hard way that shutter Off means a full 1/25 sec for 25fps. I did discover through shooting several clips that doubling the shutter speed over the frame rate produces a better result. Shoot several clips at different settings and say out aloud which settings are being used. When you play back the clips you will hear yourself confirming the settings used.

David Issko · August 4th, 2009, 02:45 PM

I know that recent posts are way off topic and I am very sorry to add to that (sorry Marius) but my 25p is rubbish. Each and every time. Setting the shutter to 1/50th only cuts down on light levels and does not help my cause at all......Sorry.

Perrone Ford · August 4th, 2009, 03:11 PM

Post some footage. Let's see it.

Robert Young · August 4th, 2009, 07:27 PM

There's always 50i ;-)

Vincent Oliver · August 5th, 2009, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Issko

I know that recent posts are way off topic and I am very sorry to add to that (sorry Marius) but my 25p is rubbish. Each and every time. Setting the shutter to 1/50th only cuts down on light levels and does not help my cause at all......Sorry.

You havn't given us any information on what aspect of your clips are rubish. Maybe some sample footage would help, or tell us exactly what the problem is .

David Herman · August 5th, 2009, 02:29 AM

Shooting 25P frame speed on at 50. Never had a problem with my xl-2 with these settings. My screening so far has been on my mac book pro set to view fit to screen. Workflow: shotputting the card on to an external drive and xdcam transferring the clips on to a separate drive for viewing and fcp work. I am now hoping the judder is screening related. Question - how to screen to tell, afterall at some point this footage is for screening on a regular telly via broadcast or off a dvd? I shall post some online footage as soon as I have a moment, but that is always an iffy situation (finding that elusive moment, that is)

Vincent Oliver · August 5th, 2009, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Herman

Shooting 25P frame speed on at 50. Never had a problem with my xl-2 with these settings. My screening so far has been on my mac book pro set to view fit to screen. Workflow: shotputting the card on to an external drive and xdcam transferring the clips on to a separate drive for viewing and fcp work. I am now hoping the judder is screening related. Question - how to screen to tell, afterall at some point this footage is for screening on a regular telly via broadcast or off a dvd?

My workflow involves writing individual chapters on a project to DVD and viewing it on an LCD TV (Sony Bravia and Samsung), I may write several discs at differet settings until the quality looks right. I never judge the motion in my NLE (Premiere) or via Sony clipbrowser as this may not always produce the smoothest results. I suspect that your Mac Book may be the problem, besides running the OS and other tasks, expecting it to give a smooth video performance with HD is a very tall order. This is not intended to be a knock for Apple Mac, my Windows system has just as many, if not more, problems.

Alister Chapman · August 5th, 2009, 08:01 AM

There really needs to be a sticky on this subject as it comes around again and again.

Never, never, never judge the motion of footage using a computer screen. Most computer screens are running at 60Hz or higher. They are progressive displays so do not handle interlace well and if you have shot at 24P, 25P or 30P there has to be some kind of interpolating of the frame rate going on in order to display the footage. This can manifest itself in many ways depending on how the computer is converting your footage. It may be picture tearing, stuttering, jumping, skipping or judder. Very few computer displays are optimised for video playback. You can ever be sure that what you are seeing is what you shot using a basic computer display setup.

A better way to judge the motion is simply to use the SD composite output into a conventional monitor. While it may only be SD and might not be the best quality image, at least the motion should be correct. Most HD LCD TV's have a component input, this is going to be better for judging motion than a computer screen.

The majority of computer screens are simply not designed for moving images.

August 4th, 2009, 09:04 AM	#16
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,417	Hi David, It's tough to say what is going on with your footage because 1/50th is certainly the recommended setting for 25P. Are you sure the shutter switch under the lens is actually turned on? Are you shooting with an f-stop of f/5.6 or larger? I'll admit that I never have any reason to shoot 25P, but on the rare occassions when I shoot 24P I use 1/48th and I've been completely happy with the results. And I always use 1/60th for 30P. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

August 4th, 2009, 02:05 PM	#17
Vincent Oliver Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chislehurst, London Posts: 1,724	How are you viewing your footage (clips), if using the XDCAM EX browser then that can look juddery. Depending on your NLE, the clips can also lose their smoothness until rendered. I learnt the hard way that shutter Off means a full 1/25 sec for 25fps. I did discover through shooting several clips that doubling the shutter speed over the frame rate produces a better result. Shoot several clips at different settings and say out aloud which settings are being used. When you play back the clips you will hear yourself confirming the settings used. __________________ Eyes are a deaf man’s ears. Ears are a blind man’s eyes

August 4th, 2009, 02:45 PM	#18
David Issko Major Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 393	I know that recent posts are way off topic and I am very sorry to add to that (sorry Marius) but my 25p is rubbish. Each and every time. Setting the shutter to 1/50th only cuts down on light levels and does not help my cause at all......Sorry. __________________ David Issko Edit 1 Video Productions

August 4th, 2009, 03:11 PM	#19
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Post some footage. Let's see it. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

August 4th, 2009, 07:27 PM	#20
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	There's always 50i ;-) __________________ Bob

August 5th, 2009, 02:29 AM	#22
David Herman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: gloucestershire uk Posts: 93	Shooting 25P frame speed on at 50. Never had a problem with my xl-2 with these settings. My screening so far has been on my mac book pro set to view fit to screen. Workflow: shotputting the card on to an external drive and xdcam transferring the clips on to a separate drive for viewing and fcp work. I am now hoping the judder is screening related. Question - how to screen to tell, afterall at some point this footage is for screening on a regular telly via broadcast or off a dvd? I shall post some online footage as soon as I have a moment, but that is always an iffy situation (finding that elusive moment, that is) Last edited by David Herman; August 5th, 2009 at 02:30 AM. Reason: add info

August 5th, 2009, 08:01 AM	#24
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	There really needs to be a sticky on this subject as it comes around again and again. Never, never, never judge the motion of footage using a computer screen. Most computer screens are running at 60Hz or higher. They are progressive displays so do not handle interlace well and if you have shot at 24P, 25P or 30P there has to be some kind of interpolating of the frame rate going on in order to display the footage. This can manifest itself in many ways depending on how the computer is converting your footage. It may be picture tearing, stuttering, jumping, skipping or judder. Very few computer displays are optimised for video playback. You can ever be sure that what you are seeing is what you shot using a basic computer display setup. A better way to judge the motion is simply to use the SD composite output into a conventional monitor. While it may only be SD and might not be the best quality image, at least the motion should be correct. Most HD LCD TV's have a component input, this is going to be better for judging motion than a computer screen. The majority of computer screens are simply not designed for moving images. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com