Sony F3 vs RED?

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

I see the F3 becoming a camera of choice for many documentary productions and some natural history programmes. An F3 recording to a NanoFlash or Ki-Pro Mini would be a wonderful tool for mid and high end documentaries.

I tend to agree - though I also see a lot of users in this sort of category going "doh, WHY isn't it natively 50Mbs XDCAM? WHY do I need an external recorder?

That said, I think you're right - it may not be perfect, but what else is there that's better ?

[Dean Harrington]

Love to see if the camera ramps and how about that EX IR problem ... still there?

[Andrew Stone]

Originally Posted by David Heath

I also see a lot of users in this sort of category going "doh, WHY isn't it natively 50Mbs XDCAM?... it may not be perfect, but what else is there that's better ?

The announcements from various quarters in the industry have got a lot of us in an aggressive "buy" posture but it has become clear to me that a few other products in the affordable "cinema camera" category will be coming out between March and June of this year. Sony's extended package with lenses including the zoom lens will not be out until June of 2011 (based on current information from Sony) so I think it would be prudent to wait until the dust settles around NAB and a bit afterwords and then make a decision.

If you absolutely have to get a camera between now and then the picture might be different but that could involve renting whatever cam you need or even purchasing an AF100 and selling it off in the summer to get more of a "middle production" camera, once all the products are known.

[Simon Wyndham]

I see postings all the time that say "Looking for DP with RED" not looking for great DP, but a DP with RED... I personally HATE this new trend. Clients are caring more about the camera and less about the person behind it lately. Yes RED looks great, but damn get over it already. In the hands of a not so great DP it just looks like any other crappy video.

I agree. Things have become rather silly in recent years with cameras being treated almost like celebrities! It has become more ridiculous because of the release rate of new cameras. Technology always gets superceded, but these days I think that it has gone too far. Nothing really keeps its value any more and I'm fed up of the tech chase.

[Andrew Stone]

Originally Posted by Dean Harrington

Love to see if the camera ramps and how about that EX IR problem ... still there?

No mention of ramping from any of the users to date. All indications are the overcrank behaves exactly as it does on the EX series cams: static and limited to 720p use. Possibly they will add ramping with the dual-link SDI upgrade, as ramping is still seen as a high-end feature.

The IR problem was, more or less, fixed when Sony issued the revised EX1R so it should be fine in the F3. One would think.

[Erik Phairas]

I had a dream last night that I got to hold an F3. (sony you are in my head..LOL). In the dream it was a nightmare to hold, it weighted a ton, and the lens had no less that 30 different rings on it... ha ha

I guess I am intimidated by all this. :)

[Paul Cronin]

Andrew excellent advice.

[Steve Kalle]

Everyone is incorrectly using the term 'Resolution' when discussing 1080/2k/4k.The number of Pixels does NOT determine resolution. I have only seen one test comparing the EX1, Red One and F23, and the F23 blows the Red away in terms of Resolution even though the F23 is only 1080.

Furthermore, just look at the 5D's resolution, which isn't even really HD and most cheap consumer handycams have more 'resolution' than the 5D.

Also, in comparing the F3 to Red One, you should include the cost of either an external recorder (ie nanoFlash, Cinedeck or Ki Pro) or the 444/Dual Link upgrade plus SR recorder (which has no price yet). I'd imagine that the 444 upgrade and SR recorder will make the F3's total cost very close to a ready-to-shoot Red One.

Personally, I am torn between wanting a Sony PMW 350 and the F3 for use in our studio for news style programs and for TVCs.

[Steve Kalle]

Since I can't edit my post, I need to correct my comment about the F23 and R1. I went back and read the article again and their conclusion is that the Red at 4k resolves about 25% more than the F23 at 1080, and the Red @2k resolves only 1280x720.

[Paul Cronin]

Steve that makes sense to me. My Red One at 2K 120fps did not impress me and was the reason I sold it.

[Dean Harrington]

Originally Posted by Steve Kalle

Everyone is incorrectly using the term 'Resolution' when discussing 1080/2k/4k.The number of Pixels does NOT determine resolution. I have only seen one test on provideocoalition comparing the EX1, Red One and F23, and the F23 blows the Red away in terms of Resolution even though the F23 is only 1080.

Furthermore, just look at the 5D's resolution, which isn't even really HD and most cheap consumer handycams have more 'resolution' than the 5D.

Also, in comparing the F3 to Red One, you should include the cost of either an external recorder (ie nanoFlash, Cinedeck or Ki Pro) or the 444/Dual Link upgrade plus SR recorder (which has no price yet). I'd imagine that the 444 upgrade and SR recorder will make the F3's total cost very close to a ready-to-shoot Red One.

Personally, I am torn between wanting a Sony PMW 350 and the F3 for use in our studio for news style programs and for TVCs.

The F3 will make a good all-around-camera when the ENG lens comes out that fits with the rocker arm. The 350 is a solid camera but it's just not quite in the same class as the F3 ... my thoughts.

[Steve Kalle]

Originally Posted by Dean Harrington

The F3 will make a good all-around-camera when the ENG lens comes out that fits with the rocker arm. The 350 is a solid camera but it's just not quite in the same class as the F3 ... my thoughts.

Any info on the lens with zoom? The F3 will be the perfect TVC camera for me but I need to know how it works in use as an ENG camera in addition to how it will work in a 'news' style studio with my EX3 and EX1.

[Dylan Couper]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe Pugliese

Unfortunately RED has its own name branded in the minds of clients these days. I see postings all the time that say "Looking for DP with RED" not looking for great DP, but a DP with RED... I personally HATE this new trend. Clients are caring more about the camera and less about the person behind it lately. Yes RED looks great, but damn get over it already. In the hands of a not so great DP it just looks like any other crappy video.

With that being said If I own an F3 will I be turned down because I dont have a RED camera? I hear this all the time about people losing out gigs because they didn't own one, and production didn't wanna rent. Or will the F3 be like the F900 way back when... Everyone wanted to shoot with it and it had its same name standing just like RED does now.

Thats my only fear, clients picking the DP who has an RED Epic package over me owning an F3. My footage should be the yes or no answer only, not what camera I own. Look at all the shoots looking for DSLR shooters... my god, its ridiculous. I own a Varicam and HPX500 and I get turned down? It boggles my mind. Anyway my point is that I hope the F3 has a name for itself. But If I see that scarlet comes out, and I miss out because people are specifically wanting to shoot with scarlet, I'd have to jump ship for sure.

I hear you man... I hear you.
I'm in the rental business now, so I on one level, I don't care about the quality, only with having the "hot" camera. In this range, RED is still the hottie on the street. Personally, I'd much rather use the F3, but even though I think it's superior in many ways and WANT to buy one (for personal use), I just don't know if the market will jump its bones like they do the RED (which there are tons of where I live already).

I think I'll be waiting till NAB for sure, but waiting for a new RED is one thing I won't be doing.

[Steve Kalle]

Based on how HOT the Panasonic AF100 is pre-selling, the market is obviously looking for a REAL video camera with shallow DOF. I think there are many others like me who are already heavily invested into XDCAM EX including batteries and SxS cards, and look at the F3 as a great option.

[Dean Harrington]

I'm in the same boat as Steve ... the F3 along with my ex3 and even the sgblade coupled on that would make an interesting dual camera set-up.