HDMI Weirdness at DVinfo.net

Jim Tittle · March 14th, 2011, 06:58 AM

Yesterday, I used an HDMI monitor with my F3 for the first time. Up until now, I've used my Panasonic field monitor, which has HD SDI. I put a Small HD HDMI monitor on the camera for the AC, and ran into some issues.

When I'd switch from playback to record, I'd lose the HDMI output. Then, I had to disconnect the HDMI cable, go into the menus, switch to HD SDI, then back to HDMI, then re-connect the cable. This happened every time.

Has anyone else had this problem?

Timur Civan · March 14th, 2011, 06:06 PM

occasionally it does weird things.

It will also hiccup when going from 59.94 to 23.98 PSF while connected to a device. you need to switch from What ever out put youre on SDI/HDMI to the other, then back.

Jim Tittle · March 14th, 2011, 10:00 PM

Well, I guess this means more testing. I'm not crazy about HDMI, but I'm still going to need it once in awhile.

Leonard Levy · March 15th, 2011, 09:15 PM

I had access to an F3 this afternoon and tested your problem. Didn't happen to me. I had an HDMI Lilliput and I could back and forth from playback to camera mode and the monitor functioned fine. I only did it a few times though - but no problem with anything.

Jim Tittle · March 15th, 2011, 10:57 PM

I spent about an hour tonight playing with the camera and 3 monitors: Sony LMD-9050, Small HD DP1x, and Manhattan 8". The Sony is HD-SDI, and the other 2 are HDMI.

With the SmallHD DP1x, at first I was able to switch between live picture and thumbnail mode, but not back to live picture. When I tried, the monitor went black. In order to get a picture on the HDMI monitor again, I had to unplug it, switch to HD SDI output, switch back to HDMI output, and plug the monitor back in.

After doing this 4 or 5 times, I tried a longer HDMI cable (6' long). I was able to switch into thumbnail mode once. After that, I couldn't get thumbnail mode with an HDMI monitor, at all. Didn't matter what monitor or what cable I used.

I tried the HDMI mode with the Manhattan monitor next, and had the same problem. Was able to view live picture, but pressing the thumbnail button cut off the signal. Couldn't get it back until I turned the power off, switched to HD SDI mode, and then back to HDMI mode.

Through all of this, I periodically checked the HD SDI output. When in the right mode, live monitoring and playback worked fine.

Leonard Levy · March 15th, 2011, 11:24 PM

When you checked the SDI out were you using the sdi monitor out on the right or the 2 top ones?

I found to get the top ones to work I had to switch the 3G SDI to 1.5 then I had 2 sdi monitor outs that always worked. The one on the right I had to go into the menus and for monitor out choose either HDMI or SDI but it was one or the other they wouldn't work at the same time.

Does that make any sense? - I don't have the cam in front of me so I might be describing the settings a little innaccurately. ( was it 3G?)

Jim Tittle · March 16th, 2011, 05:58 AM

That's interesting. I tried the two top ones, but didn't get video, so I've been using the one on the right.
I'll try the two on the top.

Just curious--anyone know if different output configurations use significantly different amounts of power?

Leonard Levy · March 18th, 2011, 12:23 PM

Jim, what's your firmware on that unit?
Wondering if its the same as the one I tested as I seem to recall some early upgrade that had something to do with SDI and HDMI ports. I'm not up on this though since don't own the camera yet - just wondering if it has anything to do with why mine worked and yours didn't.
The one I tested was a Sony loaner at my dealer. I called him and he said he saw these numbers Version 6.20_0004 and V1.00. Don't know what the 2 different versions refer to.

I couldn't get HDMI and the SDI monitor out (the one on the right) to work at the same time. Had to be changed in the menus. Are there more SDI outs than the 2 on top and the one on the right? (don't have one in front of me.)

Lenny

Jim Tittle · March 19th, 2011, 08:18 PM

I'll look into this on Monday--taking the camera back to the dealer. It's been inconsistent. Sometimes I can switch from Picture to Playback, and sometimes I can't. I believe the firmware is 1.0, but I don't have the camera in front of me right now. I'll post details next week.

The reason I'm not being more aggressive about trouble-shooting this: I usually use HD SDI.

Nate Weaver · March 20th, 2011, 01:30 AM

My HDMI seems to come and go as well, needing jogging and a swift kick here and there. My living room set is also slow to switch HDMI modes, so I'm thinking it's a "it takes two to tango" situation as well.

I chalk it up to firmware 1.0, overall.

Luckily it is not a deal breaker for me.

Jim Tittle · March 22nd, 2011, 07:38 AM

An engineer at Sony responded to my questions about the HDMI output on the F3. Here's what I learned (my questions, his answers):

1) When switching from HD SDI to HD HDMI output, is it necessary to disconnect the HDMI cable? No, you should not have to do this.

2) What is an "iLink" cable? I thought this was Sony's term for Firewire. Does it also refer to HDMI? Firewire is the original Apples term, but it is the same.

3) When the video output is switched from SDI to HDMI with the cable connected, is it possible to damage the camera? No, not that I am aware of

4) Once the HDMI output has stopped working, (due to switching output without disconnecting cables), what procedure should be followed to get the HDMI output working again? HDMI needs to do handshaking with the device, and you may have to either turn the display device on and off or the camera.

5) Currently, is there a way for a user to get HD SDI output and HD HDMI output at the same time? Not at this time.

*** In my own experience, with my camera, it's necessary to disconnect the HDMI cable before switching from thumbnail to record mode. If I don't do this, the HDMI output quits. The only way to get it back again, with my camera, seems to involve turning the camera off and letting it sit for a long time (overnight). Has anyone else had this problem?

Guy Jackson · March 24th, 2011, 10:17 PM

i had the same issue on a shoot few weeks ago,
i think you can't use both HD-SDI and HDMI out while shooting 24 fps, in other frame rate it might work.
go figure...
this is why i'm waiting until NAB to decide what to get next

Guy Jackson · March 24th, 2011, 10:30 PM

moved to another post

Chris Medico · April 16th, 2011, 07:53 PM

I have been getting to know my F3 and have noticed that when I first turn on the camera it won't output any video to the HDMI port. I have to go into the menu and switch to SDI then back to HDMI before the monitor gets a signal.

Hopefully a firmware update will fix it.

March 14th, 2011, 06:58 AM	#1
Jim Tittle Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 114	HDMI Weirdness Yesterday, I used an HDMI monitor with my F3 for the first time. Up until now, I've used my Panasonic field monitor, which has HD SDI. I put a Small HD HDMI monitor on the camera for the AC, and ran into some issues. When I'd switch from playback to record, I'd lose the HDMI output. Then, I had to disconnect the HDMI cable, go into the menus, switch to HD SDI, then back to HDMI, then re-connect the cable. This happened every time. Has anyone else had this problem?

March 14th, 2011, 06:06 PM	#2
Timur Civan Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 120	Re: HDMI Weirdness occasionally it does weird things. It will also hiccup when going from 59.94 to 23.98 PSF while connected to a device. you need to switch from What ever out put youre on SDI/HDMI to the other, then back. __________________ Director of Photography - www.timurcivan.com Sony F3, Cooke lenses, sunny disposition.

March 14th, 2011, 10:00 PM	#3
Jim Tittle Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 114	Re: HDMI Weirdness Well, I guess this means more testing. I'm not crazy about HDMI, but I'm still going to need it once in awhile.

March 15th, 2011, 09:15 PM	#4
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Re: HDMI Weirdness I had access to an F3 this afternoon and tested your problem. Didn't happen to me. I had an HDMI Lilliput and I could back and forth from playback to camera mode and the monitor functioned fine. I only did it a few times though - but no problem with anything.

March 15th, 2011, 10:57 PM	#5
Jim Tittle Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 114	Re: HDMI Weirdness I spent about an hour tonight playing with the camera and 3 monitors: Sony LMD-9050, Small HD DP1x, and Manhattan 8". The Sony is HD-SDI, and the other 2 are HDMI. With the SmallHD DP1x, at first I was able to switch between live picture and thumbnail mode, but not back to live picture. When I tried, the monitor went black. In order to get a picture on the HDMI monitor again, I had to unplug it, switch to HD SDI output, switch back to HDMI output, and plug the monitor back in. After doing this 4 or 5 times, I tried a longer HDMI cable (6' long). I was able to switch into thumbnail mode once. After that, I couldn't get thumbnail mode with an HDMI monitor, at all. Didn't matter what monitor or what cable I used. I tried the HDMI mode with the Manhattan monitor next, and had the same problem. Was able to view live picture, but pressing the thumbnail button cut off the signal. Couldn't get it back until I turned the power off, switched to HD SDI mode, and then back to HDMI mode. Through all of this, I periodically checked the HD SDI output. When in the right mode, live monitoring and playback worked fine.

March 15th, 2011, 11:24 PM	#6
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Re: HDMI Weirdness When you checked the SDI out were you using the sdi monitor out on the right or the 2 top ones? I found to get the top ones to work I had to switch the 3G SDI to 1.5 then I had 2 sdi monitor outs that always worked. The one on the right I had to go into the menus and for monitor out choose either HDMI or SDI but it was one or the other they wouldn't work at the same time. Does that make any sense? - I don't have the cam in front of me so I might be describing the settings a little innaccurately. ( was it 3G?)

March 16th, 2011, 05:58 AM	#7
Jim Tittle Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 114	Re: HDMI Weirdness That's interesting. I tried the two top ones, but didn't get video, so I've been using the one on the right. I'll try the two on the top. Just curious--anyone know if different output configurations use significantly different amounts of power?

March 18th, 2011, 12:23 PM	#8
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Re: HDMI Weirdness Jim, what's your firmware on that unit? Wondering if its the same as the one I tested as I seem to recall some early upgrade that had something to do with SDI and HDMI ports. I'm not up on this though since don't own the camera yet - just wondering if it has anything to do with why mine worked and yours didn't. The one I tested was a Sony loaner at my dealer. I called him and he said he saw these numbers Version 6.20_0004 and V1.00. Don't know what the 2 different versions refer to. I couldn't get HDMI and the SDI monitor out (the one on the right) to work at the same time. Had to be changed in the menus. Are there more SDI outs than the 2 on top and the one on the right? (don't have one in front of me.) Lenny

March 19th, 2011, 08:18 PM	#9
Jim Tittle Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 114	Re: HDMI Weirdness I'll look into this on Monday--taking the camera back to the dealer. It's been inconsistent. Sometimes I can switch from Picture to Playback, and sometimes I can't. I believe the firmware is 1.0, but I don't have the camera in front of me right now. I'll post details next week. The reason I'm not being more aggressive about trouble-shooting this: I usually use HD SDI.

March 20th, 2011, 01:30 AM	#10
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Re: HDMI Weirdness My HDMI seems to come and go as well, needing jogging and a swift kick here and there. My living room set is also slow to switch HDMI modes, so I'm thinking it's a "it takes two to tango" situation as well. I chalk it up to firmware 1.0, overall. Luckily it is not a deal breaker for me. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

March 22nd, 2011, 07:38 AM	#11
Jim Tittle Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 114	Re: HDMI Weirdness An engineer at Sony responded to my questions about the HDMI output on the F3. Here's what I learned (my questions, his answers): 1) When switching from HD SDI to HD HDMI output, is it necessary to disconnect the HDMI cable? No, you should not have to do this. 2) What is an "iLink" cable? I thought this was Sony's term for Firewire. Does it also refer to HDMI? Firewire is the original Apples term, but it is the same. 3) When the video output is switched from SDI to HDMI with the cable connected, is it possible to damage the camera? No, not that I am aware of 4) Once the HDMI output has stopped working, (due to switching output without disconnecting cables), what procedure should be followed to get the HDMI output working again? HDMI needs to do handshaking with the device, and you may have to either turn the display device on and off or the camera. 5) Currently, is there a way for a user to get HD SDI output and HD HDMI output at the same time? Not at this time. *** In my own experience, with my camera, it's necessary to disconnect the HDMI cable before switching from thumbnail to record mode. If I don't do this, the HDMI output quits. The only way to get it back again, with my camera, seems to involve turning the camera off and letting it sit for a long time (overnight). Has anyone else had this problem?

March 24th, 2011, 10:17 PM	#12
Guy Jackson New Boot Join Date: May 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 6	Re: HDMI Weirdness i had the same issue on a shoot few weeks ago, i think you can't use both HD-SDI and HDMI out while shooting 24 fps, in other frame rate it might work. go figure... this is why i'm waiting until NAB to decide what to get next

March 24th, 2011, 10:30 PM	#13
Guy Jackson New Boot Join Date: May 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 6	Re: HDMI Weirdness moved to another post Last edited by Guy Jackson; March 24th, 2011 at 11:08 PM.

April 16th, 2011, 07:53 PM	#14
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: HDMI Weirdness I have been getting to know my F3 and have noticed that when I first turn on the camera it won't output any video to the HDMI port. I have to go into the menu and switch to SDI then back to HDMI before the monitor gets a signal. Hopefully a firmware update will fix it. __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com