External EVF vs monitor?
 

Given the recognized limitations of the F3's EVF for fine focusing, I am trying to decide between something along the lines of a Zacuto or Cineroid EVF vs aTV Logic VFM-056 WP camera mounted monitor for outdoor, in-the-field use. Anyone care to comment?

No? All right, how about this: are there any F3 users who are employing the above described TV Logic monitor along with their F3 for outdoor use? If so, does it require the optional sunshade/snoot, and do you find it awkward to manage the monitor/F3 combination as it pertains to bulk and or weight?

Thank you in advance.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

I am currently using the Cineroid and it has improved my outdoor shooting 500%. Getting clear, accurate focus is easy in any light, as is the finding my exposure using the zebras. Personally, I'm finding the inconvenience of another accessory, minimal compared to the difficulty I experienced with the camera's finders.

Having said that, I find the Cineroid is way too fragile for constant use. The battery is difficult to remove and it is easy to bend the contact pins which seem to be mounted on a circuit board rather than the unit's frame. The mini HDMI input-output is also a problem waiting to happen.

Zacutos EVF, (though I had reservations trying it at NAB) is much better built and I've been told by an experienced DP comparing both side by side that it "provides a much smoother" image.

I have not had success using any other type of external monitor out doors in bright light.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

I think Chuck might be referring to me as the person who thought the Zacuto had a much nicer, more vibrant and smoother image.

I had the chance to compare the Zacuto and Cineroid a couple of weeks ago simultaneously on the same F3. It was not even close. All three of us who set up the testing immediately declared the Zacuto to be the winner. It wasn't even open for debate because the difference was huge.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

The TV Logic VFM-056 is such a great monitor/viewfinder, but I tend to save it for my interior shoots, using Zacuto's Z-Finder EVF Pro for exteriors and any off the shoulder work.

Even though the TVLogic has a very effective sun shade, I prefer the Zacuto finder when working outside. With my eye right up to the eyecup, I can engage comfortably with framing and get exposure bang on in our bright and sunny (Australian) conditions. One of each, that'$ the way.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Does anyone use the Hoodman EX1 Kit on the F3 LCD? It seems like a cheap solution, if you have enough weight on the back of your rig to balance out the front heaviness. I just ordered the Hoodman Kit and im curious if someone else uses that configuration.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Hi Doug,
Thank you, as well the others, for your reply.
A review of Zacuto's website revealed several different EVFs, which version did you find to be most serviceable on the F3?

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

I ordered this one, but it has not arrived yet.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/755493-REG/Zacuto_Z_FIND_EVFP_Z_Finder_EVF_Pro_3_2.html

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

I have tried it and it doesn't work. The placement is all wrong ergomonically and the LCD panel itself is not strong enough or rigid enough to support the weight and pressure.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Thank you.
Just placed an order for same—should arrive tomorrow and will report back after putting it through its paces.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Mine should arrive tomorrow, too. It was out of stock a couple of weeks ago when I ordered it, but they didn't ship it when it came in the other day because they are still waiting for another out of stock item to come in. If I hadn't gone to get the link to post here, I never would have known it was now in stock. I called B&H and they are sending it today. The other item can come when it comes.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Well, we can compare notes.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

I rented the Cineroid and it was just ok visually and the HDMI mini cables were terrible. I got the Hoodman EX kit and it is just a fix until an EVF comes with SDI. I support the Hoodman with a small cine arm to hold it in place, not the best solution but it works for now. HDMI is IMHO ridiculous, I couldn't image ever buying one when SDI versions will soon be available.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

I'm using both the hoodman loupoe supported by a little arm with a ballmount and the TVlogic, pretty much at all times. In my own handheld system there is no problem with the placement of the flip out, and I was not impressed by either the Cineroid or the Zacuto. The Hoodman is OK but the color peaking is not as effective as it was on the EX-1. The TV logic is very very helpful. I keep a Hoodman sunshade on it most times outdoors and its not bad in sunlight. I hear the Hoodman is supposed to be a better sunshade for it than the TV Logic.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

I would love to see a picture how you worked the hoodman ex loupe with the articulating arm. It would be awesome if you could upload a pic of that, cause I already ordered the ex loupe.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Very interested in your report Doug as I know you have lived with professional EVFs on your ENG cams.

Frankly, I put my eye up to both the Cineroid and the Zacuto EVF at NAB and two things in both that were huge turnoffs on both. One was the overmagnification of the diopters which is not properly sized for the field of view for the fovea in our viewing eye. Second was the "mosquito netting" effect in the displays (someone else's term). In both EVFs, you can clearly see black outlines between the pixel sets which creates this netting effect over the displayed image. Those two things have prevented me from considering these units as workable solutions.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Received the EVF Pro this a.m.
Initial comments:
1. the supplied HDMI cable is not appropriate for the F3. The supplied cable has a mini-connector on the camera side—the EVF side connector, on the other hand,is the proper size for the camera. This omission has rendered it impossible for me to test the EVF with the F3. I suppose it would be fine for a DSLR.
2. The shoe-mount bracket is flimsy and fails to hold the EVF in a locked down position.
3. Using the F3's forward, handle mounted cold shoe places the EVF in an awkward position for viewing that is further compounded by the camera's own protruding rear finder.

Since I do not have the proper HDMI cable I cannot test the device at this time and am seriously considering returning it.

Addendum:

Called Zacuto. Said they are aware of the cable discrepancy, but that they have no current solution other than to find a cable SOMEWHERE.
Found one—$31.00 later and 4' being the shortest—at Radio Shack.
It still remains a tad awkward to use (might be resolved with an alternative mounting solution), but the image is smooth, clear and bright without any obvious pixellation (as had been described with another mfr's EVF) or black lines, as another poster implied.
Focus assist (peaking) works well, but it would have been nice to have it colored for better visibility. Zebras seem to work as intended.
Given the snap-in design of the finder I would be hesitant to use the flip feature ... seems as if the weight might cause it to hit the deck.
I will give it a few days before coming to a decision in re its being a keeper or not.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Watch out for the processing lag as well. There is a few frames lag.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

My Zacuto arrived today and I am 100% pleased. I've got it mounted on the camera right where I want it at the rear of the handle with this short arm:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/616252-REG/Pearstone_9041670_9041670_4_2_10_7cm_Articulating.html

and I already had a short HDMI cable laying around. BTW, there's nothing special about the HDMI cable, you can get them anywhere. Even Wal-mart or Radio Shack probably sell short ones.

The picture quality is fantastic. Almost as good as the $12K viewfinder on my F800 . . . almost.
I give it 5 stars out of 5.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

The magnification seems just fine to be, but I guess that's open to opinion. Perhaps the one you saw at NAB didn't have the right spacers for your eye. There are spacers to increase the distance to the diopter, in addition to a ring to focus the glass. I have two of the spacers on mine.

I know what you mean about the the dark lines between the pixels, and that is what I didn't like about the Cineroid. The Zaucto does not suffer from that problem. The image is very smooth and you can't really see any lines or individual pixels.

One nice thing is that it was very easy to customize the zebras so they match the camera's zebras almost perfectly. That was a concern I had before I got it, but it works great.

Also, it's nice to have the new firmware so I can feed the VF and a monitor at the same time. The F3 just keeps getting better and better . . . if you keep throwing money at it.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Hi Doug,

Thank you for the link.

The articulating arm looks interesting and might just solve my positioning problem, but it appears one would need a 1/4 in screw on both the camera and EVF ends. The photo shows a shoe mount on one end of the arm? The rear end my F3 handle has 1/4 in thread, the front has a cold shoe? Did you mount your arm to the front cold shoe or have you modified the arm in some way?

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Thanks for the reply Doug. I guess my memory is off. I thought the Zacuto had the problem with the black lines between the pixels as well.

How would you compare the Zacuto to the EX3 viewfinder. Is the resolution similar (either actual or subjectively)?

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Yes, I noticed that during a slow pan.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

"The F3 just keeps getting better and better . . . if you keep throwing money at it."

Couldn't agree with you more!

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Hoodman on F3 mounted with articulating arm

EVF SOLUTION (for now...)...)

Don't know why but I have consistently had trouble getting a satisfactory image from any Zacuto loupe I use my glasses when shooting and maybe that has something to do with it - who knows. I tried a zillion spacers and different magnifications at NAB - all sucked more or less.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

You can unthread the cold shoe mount on the arm and take it off. That leaves you with a 1/4"-20 at both ends.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Hard to say. They have similar image quality, but look different. I can't really describe it.
However, the EX3 VF is better because it costs nothing extra, requires no power, and us easier to use.
If the F3 had a viewfinder extension tube with a diopter like the EX3 and FS100 I would not have bought the Zacuto.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Thank you Doug ... I placed an order for the arm.

One more question: You mentioned that you set the EVF's Zebras to match those of the F3, what did you set them to?
I have found, so far, that the settings on the Zacuto follow those of the F3. However, Zebra 1 and 2 are offset opposite of the F3's with respect to direction and that could cause some confusion.
Still require the camera's VF to view camera settings and record on/off ... not easy to see tally light in daylight. Have yet to be able to properly adjust the diopter for my aging eyes and glasses, and that's with 2 spacers installed. But I am enjoying the larger image and I suspect that when the adjustable arm arrives the positioning dilemma will be diminished.

Ron

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Looks like this one is gonna be a good contender...

SmallHD DP4 EVF

Announcing the all new DP4 & DP4-EVF from SmallHD

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

I set the zebra to the precise setting that will give me the proper exposure on my camera.

I don't want to say what that number is, because someone seeing my zebra number is liable to start using it, and that may or may not be the right number for them. The best zebra setting will vary depending on the settings of the paint menus and where the operator expects to see zebras appear in the frame. That's one of the big points I explain in my training DVD.
Mastering the Sony PMW-F3 training DVD

The important thing is that I was able to get the zebras on the camera to match the zebras on the zacuto, so I can set my exposure from either display.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Here's the Zacuto EVF mounted on my F3.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Here's another view.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Hi Doug,
Nice setup.
Have you had occasion to use the EVF in a gain requiring, low light situation? I've noticed quite a lot of grain in the EVF's image beginning with +6db, while the cam's evf and LCD remain free of same.
As for the eyeglass issue mentioned by one poster, I've noted that I cannot use my progressives but a pair with single prescription lenses works well.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Ron, thanks for the eyeglass tip. I use progressives and have been mystified by all the Zacutos as I can never get decent focus on them.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Henry at first blush the DP4 with the viewfinder attachment looks good but I would not buy it without a fair amount of peer review. It is lacking an adjustable diopter. The lens so they say is fixed. This is a huge problem if this is indeed the case for most users. Second is the eyecup. While it has an art nouveau whimsical thing going on about it, the shape appears to be impractical and almost certainly unusable to most who wear glasses.

It has the potential to be very good but there appear to be some glaring issues that are going to be deal breakers to many looking for a usable EVF.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Hi Leonard,

Yes, the progressives have been a problem, even for the F3's own EVF which requires frequent positioning trials. I have several pairs of intermediate mag eyeglasses that I use for computer work, and they seem to have solved the problem for both EVFs but, in particular, the Zacuto.

I realize that upon initial evaluation I was ready to ship it back to the supplier, however, after a period of re-evaluation I've come to the conclusion that, although it isn't perfect (see my post in re granularity with gain as low as 6 db and low light scenes) it still is leagues better than the EVF supplied with the F3. And since it is an EVF with eyecup and such, it is more suited to daylight use than a camera mounted monitor.

As for the reversed Zebras, both Zebra 1 and 2, unlike the F3, are fully adjustable and I suppose one can simply change their settings to correspond with those of the F3; i.e. exchange 1's settings with that of #2.

Doug's adjustable arm suggestion should allow for favorable positioning, regardless of one's needs.

In all, at this early juncture, I feel that the Zacuto EVF is a worthy addition to the F3 despite its limitations.
Disclaimer: the a-foregoing is not intended as product endorsement but rather, opinion, in the event that such is deemed unacceptable on this board.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Ron, have you compared the Zacuto to a Hoodman on the Flip-out? The Hoodman seems OK with progressives.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Hi Leonard,
No, I haven't tried the Hoodman. Everything I've read about its use with the F3 suggests that the LCD's hinges are not strong enough to support the weight for long-term use. And examining my own F3 I recognize the issue. Besides, position flexibility is limited if using the LCD.

I realize that there is a huge cost difference between the Hoodman and the Z-Finder, but without any extra cost beyond the initial investment, and using a hot-shoe mount similar to the one supplied, I have been able to mount the Z-Finder on the front of the F3's handle (cold shoe). By angling the EVF up and to the left of the centerline and holding the camera by its own handle, I can now use it as a handheld camera in the truest sense of the word, because it no longer has to be held up at eye level. In addition, the LCD can be open and functioning at the same time.

I had been considering a TV Logic monitor, but despite the EVF's lack of vector-scope and WFM it's turing out to be a more practical solution for outdoor shooting.

P.S. the single prescription glasses allow me to see just how clear, sharp and easy focusing with the Z-Finder can be. I paid about $40.00 for my last pair, frames and all.

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

I appreciate your sentiments, however, what I really wanted to determine and did not properly address, is how much of a variance, if any, did you encounter between the F3's zebra settings and those of the Z-Finder?

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

Doug, I'd be interested to know why you would mount the Zacuto EVF at the rear of the F3, right above the Sony VF.

Assuming that the F3 in your photo is not destined for a roll about a studio, I would have thought that a position to the left side of the body and more forward (near to the ND's) would be more comfortable and familiar. Would that not feel more like using an Arri SR or any of the usual shoulder mounted video camera?

Re: External EVF vs monitor?
 

I got them to match almost perfectly. Very little variance.