Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Will post the pre-order links as soon as I get 'em, thanks!

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Thanks Chris. Just hiding my business credit card in the safe now in case those links appear soon. My way of trying to reduce that "buying lust" I'm currently feeling towards a FS7...

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

It kind of looks like something half way between a FS700 and a C300.......complete with a grip re locator!
Very interesting......

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

So we know that is a rifle shot at the C300. I think we can all agree (even Canon folks) that the FS7 clearly out-guns any other $8K camcorder.

What about the "100" crowd? (the C100/FS100 $5k+ market)

What will a future Sony "FS1" offer? (I'm sure we all agree that a "1" or "100" model is in development as we speak)

1.) Same FS7 shell and form factor? (saves manufacturing costs)
2.) UHD frame size only. (not full 4K)
3.) 8bit locked, long GOP internal 4:2:0 recording. (100 or 150mbps XAVC-S)
4.) 24 and 30p only? (maybe 60p? if Sony want's to risk it)
5.) 8bit locked SDI or just HDMI 1.4 only for 30p or HDMI 2.0 if 60p is allowed.
6.) Blocked docking station compatibility.
7.) A7s level of picture controls and profile adjustments.
8.) S-LOG2

Even with these limitations, I still believe that a $5,000 "FS1" would still be a good compromise and something that many of the "lower budget" buyers would jump on. And, with these key limitations in place, it wont hurt the FS7's higher market sales.

What do y'all think? We know for sure "something" like this is definitely on the way. (Maybe NAB 2015?...they WILL have new 4k announcements there)

CT

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Interesting - it can use the Sony E 18-105 power zoom lens up to HD 60P. It will compensate for the lens distortion.. That's a cheap lens alternative if your budget's tight.

I wonder if it can also use the 18-200 power zoom?

eta - just saw a graphic from Sony that showed the 18-200 zoom with the camera. Another cheaper zoom lens option.

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

For me, who hasn't worked out the ergonomics of the FS700 yet, the FS7 is really tempting.
I recently sold my EA50 and if I sold the FS700 as well, I could probably scramble to get the FS7.
If I keep the FS700 that would mean buying the 7Q, which I can afford with one drive, battery plate, simplest mounting solution and no FS700 codec. And then I would also not have any way to put it on my shoulder.

I'm not craving 4K, I want a better codec, 10bit and no edge contrast issues ;)

But I also want a small b-cam, so my option is keeping the FS700 and getting the A7s and hope to be able to afford the 7Q or Shogun down the road.
Seems like the Shogun will eventually support FS700 (and FS7, I presume) raw in the future:
News Shooter | IBC 2014 video: Atomos new Power Station and Shogun 4K update

The FS7 really stirred the beehive that is my brain ;)

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at Photokina
 

I was referencing the comments on your Blog (see below), Mister Bloom.

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

I'm that sort of person too that can't stand new camcorders coming out because I always get this itch to upgrade. And I always incur a loss.

Within two years I have gone from a EA50, to a FS100 and now to my FS700. And out comes this news.

Having said that, I am planning on getting a AX100 for 4K ... just for B cam and re-framing purposes.

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

I ended up going with DVinfo sponsor Abel Cine! Wanted to get in on first shipments!

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Hmmm....maybe keep my FS700 as a B cam and try to figure out how to
buy the FS7 as an A cam? And then shoot in 4K with the FS7 and make
it look like I am shooting with 3 cams????? Oh, the options.......

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Sounds like a sweet plan!

My only way to afford the FS7 would be to sell my FS700.
But then I would be stuck with no decent b-cam. But a better camera for the future.

I only buy things when I can pay them at all at once. I live pretty much hand to mouth with very irregular income. I sold my EA50 so I think I could swing the FS7 just barely if I sold the FS700 as well.

And for someone who is always broke this is really big decisions ;)

Just not sure I wanna go through the chore of selling another camera either. Damn, that stuff takes time and energy sometimes!

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

They are selling for MSRP - doesn't that seem high since they tend to discount cameras such as PMW 200 or are we seeing the old supply and demand equation?

For example the F5 is listed on the Sony site for $19,400 and both Abel Cine and B & H sell it for $3,000 less.

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Dmitri,

Yeah, I actually run my business the same way. Cash only, I have never
once bought anything for my business on credit. I've had a pretty good year,
so if the camera was to come out before the years end, there is a small
possibility that it could be a 'tax time' business purchase to decrease
my tax burden. But I am not holding my breath on that happening.
I'll just continue to watch for news on it. In the meantime, my FS700
has been getting me a lot of business.

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Its the holding price for now. Dealers will be notified of street pricing on Monday. I was told if that pricing is lower which it is, I'll receive that price.

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

On the CVP.COM (British) website the PXW-FS7K (with lens) is $11,704. Perhaps US street price will be the same or a bit lower?

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Yep, currently listed for £6,718.80 on CVP for the BODY ONLY version. That's not much more than a FS700 brand new.

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

B&H LINK PXW FS7 $9999.00
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1082825-REG/sony_pxw_fs7_compact_4k_xdcam_w_supr.html

Sony PXW-FS7 Compact 4K XDCAM Camera, Super 35 CMOS Sensor, with the New Servo Zoom E-Mount Lens FE PZ 28-135mm F4 G OSS $12599.00
Sony PXW-FS7 Compact 4K XDCAM Camera with Super 35 CMOS Sensor (Body-Only) $9599.00
http://www.adorama.com/searchsite/de...chinfo=PXW+FS7

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Hopefully those prices will change tomorrow as Sony announces street prices (see post from Monday Isa). On the 13K price for the FS7K(camera + Lens) we should expect at least 2 to 2.5K reduction (I hope).

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Just did the same thing (with Abel Cine). Did you opt for the FS7K (bundled lens) or just the body? They told me there is only one other person on that list (Body + lens) and now I am #2

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Abel Cine just posted street price for the PXW-FS7K (including lens) as $ 10,499.00!!!

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Sony is making a HUGE investment in FE lenses. (They just announced a few more very nice new ones this morning)

We know about the new Sony FF cine lens...that really is better suited to a FF sensor. (because of crop factor)

We know that the A7s is the best low light light performer that Sony has. (because of it's new FF sensor)

We Know that Sony rarely builds a sensor for one single camera model only....

How would you feel if you purchased an FS7 today....only for Sony to announce an "FS1" with the same body and form factor...but with that A7s FF sensor? (I bet they would lock it to 8 bit only for the FF - loving DSLR crowd..for $5,000+)

Sony is now missing an entry "100" level 4K camera.

Hmmmm...NAB 2015?

We KNOW more FF video cameras are on the way from Sony....

CT

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

UPDATED STREET PRICE.
Sony PXW-FS7 Compact 4K XDCAM Camera, Super 35 CMOS Sensor, with the New Servo Zoom E-Mount Lens FE PZ 28-135mm F4 G OSS $10499.00
Sony PXW-FS7 Compact 4K XDCAM Camera with Super 35 CMOS Sensor (Body-Only) $7999.00

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Thoughts on how the FS7 compares to the Blackmagic Ursa or AJA Cion? Outside of the fact that this thing appears to be real, and the other two are, as of yet, vaporware.

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

they will all produce a great image. big difference is how friendly/easily they'll be to work with. in order of usability from worst to best: ursa, cion, fs7

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Technically, the sensor seems to be the same as in the F5 and that must weigh heavily in this cameras favour.

And for "client confidence" I'd far rather turn up with a camera that had something like "Sony", "Panasonic" or "Canon" on the side for an expensive paid shoot. If the competition were a lot cheaper for the same bang, well maybe, but the FS7 itself seems to offer a lot for the money. Why then experiment with other brands?

The Ursa doesn't seem to have a eyepiece viewfinder, which personally would rule it out for me for most outdoor and on the shoulder work.

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

I went body only. Glad to see the $7,999 price!!! :D

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

For me personally it wouldn't phase me at all. If delivery of my FS7 is October I would have put the camera to work from October-June if that new camera is released at that time. That's 9 months the FS7 will have been working paying itself off probably twice by then. A FS1 will be 8-bit Long Gop in 4K but in HD can be 10bit 4:2:2 long Gop 50mbps like the PXW-X70. I hope it does come out for the lower end market. A cheaper 4K solution even if it has the A7s sensor.

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Has anybody any thoughts about that SELP28135G lens that comes with the FS7 kit?

Nice lens but:

It is 28-135... (the equivalent of an 42-202.5mm on the FS7 S35 sensor) so I consider this a telezoom. Not nearly wide enough for daily use.

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Yup!

I don't think they really made this lens for the FS7 or even really so much for the FF A7s.

I think it's intended for 1 or 2 more future FF "pro" camcorders. I strongly suspect that an "FS1" will have a FF sensor and it's pointed at the DSLR full frame sensor guys. (Canon 5D-type folks with about 5 or 6 thousand to spend..tops)

An A7s motherboard and sensor mounted into an FS7 body locked down to 8bit UHD to protect the more expensive FS7.

I'm definitely getting this lens for my A7s. (Anyone know if the A7s will pass a LANC signal to it's E mount?)

CT

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

I still can't understand the rationality to pair a FF lens with a S35 camera. The added weight and the lack of wide angle can't be compensated with any benefits. This lens can be a perfect much for A7s, but its out of place with this camera. Actually only a7 and the FF camcorder can utilize the lens to its full potential.


Of course maybe this lens implies the existence of a future professional FF camcorder with A7s sensor and better codecs. :)
Does anyone knows something that can validate this hypothesis?

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Do you also think that max of F4 will significantly affect the low light performance of the camera?

The comments on the first videos coming out of Sony mentioned using this lens under a wide variety of shooting conditions - I am having some second thoughts about it though...

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Probably not.... because a large sensor camera will tend to be more sensitive (higher ISO for given s/n) than a smaller format one. So smaller f stop - higher ISO and they balance out.

I have heard that thinking of f stop alone in regards to sensitivity is irrelevant in isolation - the determining factor is really the size of the lens in terms of light gathering ability. Whether that glass then gets used with big sensor/long focal length or smaller sensor/shorter focal length is then irrelevant. Think about it...... :-)

The only way to improve low light ability is with a bigger diameter lens.

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Have any questions been answered about output recording while internal recording at the same time? < do you lose output when you hit record? >
Also having an HD preview via SDI or HDMI while recording 4K internally would be a nice feature. Is this possible?
And lastly... has anyone seen those fast XQD G Series 400MB/s Memory Cards for sale anywhere?

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

These higher end models shouldn't act like crippled DSLRs and change picture format when the record button is pressed. My XDCAM for example always outputs the same picture format even when recording. It's an artificial limit placed by people like Nikon and Canon in lower end DSLRs.

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

I'm not really worried about the F4: the FS7 sensor is rated at 2000 iso, so it should be sensitive enough and will work fine with an F4 aperture. We will have to see about image noise. Besides: a full frame cinema zoom lens in 2.8 would be incredibly bulky and heavy (and dito price tag).

But that said, I tried the FS7 with 28-135 at the IBC Sony booth and it gave 'low light' warnings all the time. Camera was set to 0dB. This was indoor with normal artificial lighting you can expect at an exhibition.

The lens clearly was a prototype: it reacted very slow to focussing and zooming, The zoom ring drives a zoom-motor and it was slow and lagging. The minimum focus distance was in no way 40cm as they say in the specs. More like 1.2 meter... But the thing that worries most about this otherwise very interesting lens is the lack of wide angle...

From the Sony booth @IBC I also learned this 28-135 lens is targeted at the A7s camera as well. There was one on demo. Didn't try that one.

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

Erwin - Your assessment of the lens and how it works with this particular camera is disconcerting. How can Sony bundle a lens with this camera and expect their customers to be happy?

Could there have been some other factors causing "low light" readings on the camera - was the shutter speed 1/50-1/60; had someone inadvertently used an ND filter. In an exhibition hall my PMW 200 would have no problem at 0 gain. I just hope that when my FS7K arrives, I'm not sorely disappointed with the low light performance (at least in reference to the PMW 200).

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

At least in Amercia, the PZ 28-135 is not really being pushed as a kit lens for the FS7. Even though that kit is availble the kit costs $2500 more than the FS7 alone, exactly the unbundled cost of the PZ 28-135.

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

I really like the ability to have a servo zoom. Are there other lenses that would be better for FF use on this camera?

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

The Sony 18-105 and 18-200 power zooms will work with this camera, up to HD 60P. Not for 4K, though.

If you want to save some money for now, you can use these cheaper lenses. Maybe save 4K for good primes.
If I trade in my PMW-300 and get this camera, I think I'll start with the cheaper zooms, as I won't be shooting in 4K.

Re: New Sony FS7 4K XDCAM at IBC 2014
 

any word on this having a 2k center scan mode?