Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Terrible footage - we all know this cam will be capable of far greater things than this...

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Oh pshaw. We already know the pretty pictures will be beautiful. It's important to see what it'll look like with crappy lighting while hunting for focus. :-)

I will say that it seems to confirm what I already thought, which is that the 18-105 kit lens in 4K will leave something to be desired.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

This will be my first WiFi camera. For those of you who have had something similar before... my hope is that I'll be able to hand an android tablet to the client, who can watch everything I'm shooting. From what I can tell, the app you run also has camera controls on it. Is there a way to disable those, so my bumbling client doesn't stop recording an interview in the middle?

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

I'm going to a workshop/presentation on the FS5 on friday, hosted by Alistair Chapman.

Any questions you'd like to be answered?

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Yes please!

Despite at least two separate reports that the FS5 has a Wave Form Monitor, there have been other reports that there is no WFM - including by Alister (note the spelling) on his blog when he was reviewing an early pre-production FS5.

I use the WFM option on my C100 and/or Ninja Blade all the time and sure would miss it!

So will the production versions of the PXW-FS5 have a WFM...or not?

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

why is this one not posted on YouTube from sony
VideON | First Look At What The PXW-FS5K Can Do | XDCAM HD Products

Image looks pretty non video-like, same as the fs700, but i see some noice in the blacks...

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Andy, I think I may have been guilty of misleading you on that one, as with hindsight I think I may have seen a histogram display rather than waveform. To be honest, I didn't pay it too much attention at the time (I normally rely on a dual zebra mode so wasn't very interested) - I just remembered a display being present. (To be honest I found it an irritation - blocking out some of the image - which is why I don't normally use a histogram or w/f display in the viewfinder.)

My apologies if I've created confusion.

What I would say is that at the time I was looking at it's low light behaviour in a very dark part of the room and (even with the kit lens, f4) although it was only on the LCD screen it seemed pretty stunning. I'd be interested to try it again in comparison with another camera and quality monitoring. It made me wonder just what it would be like with a fast prime...... :-)

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

I know it cannot do 4K 60P internally... :)

What are the high frame rates that it can do continuous? And in burst? And what is the burst duration?

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Hi David, the frame rates are:
continuos 60fps in HD only, 120fps using full sensor full HD for 16 seconds, 240fps using full sensor full HD for 8 seconds.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Thank you, Danilo Del Tufo. Very helpful :)

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

No worries David. I will put it on my list to badger Sony about as a feature for inclusion in that future firmware upgrade (DCI, 12-bit Raw out, etc.).

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Get some popcorn and say goodbye to your family. This one's a deep dive.

FS5 Livestream | VOCAS

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Two and a half hours? I'll wait for the Reader's Digest version.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

That would be mine. No waveform monitor.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Very informative morning with Alister Chapman.

One very 'enlightening' example: I always thought a great dynamic range was good for low light shooting. It's actually the opposite. Shoot rec 709 when in low light! But for a high contrast low light scene (like a city street at night) shoot cinegamma for nice highlight rolloff. For scenes with a great dynamic range, shoot s-log.

I also understand you should probably not buy this camera if you want to do shoot a lot of S-Log. It is hard to work with s-log on the FS5 because you don't have the proper assistance tools to help judge what you're doing. (like a LUT-emulator for the monitor, for instance) The FS7 is much better equipped for that.

This is my simple understanding of a very elaborate and scientific explanation of the underlying principles of different gamma profiles by Alister. Correct me if I misunderstood!

My personal conclusion: I like this camera even more than before. Cinegamma and rec 709 will fulfill all my needs as a documentary maker, events filmer and whatever other projects come my way. (I don't do drama)

Watch the livestream- it will tell you a lot more- and better.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

So does it have a waveform function or not? Seems like a strange thing to remove.

And is it really true that you can live stream your shooting via the WiFi functionality? If so, that's pretty huge, as adding a Teradek transmitter to the camera nearly doubles the weight. To be able to shoot without it is awesome. But do you have to transmit to a Teradek receiver, or what other devices can you stream directly to?

Also, is the built in focus magnification able to be used while recording?

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

I mentioned it a few posts ago: no waveform monitor! (Alister said it would probably become too fidgety on the small screen) It does have an extra function on the histogram whereby if you reach 70% zebra's (for instance) a marker appears like a straight line cutting through the histogram.

You need the Teradek receiver to livestream, as I understood it.

Focus magnification can not only be used during recording but can also be moved around! Very nice feature if you're doing a locked down interview, for instance, and want to see the face of your interviewee magnified.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Ah ok, sorry I missed your previous post about the waveform. That's a big disappointment though. I don't understand why they would not include one, as cameras of this size and price have had it for years.

Thanks for the additional info on the streaming and focus magnification.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Was there any discussion about the variable ND and iris control? From what I can tell, the same scroll wheel controls both. So if you are engaging the variable ND, does that mean you cannot change the iris and vice versa?

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

There's a toggle switch that controls that scroll wheel - Iris or ND. You can control one or the other at a time. It seems that with a quick flick of the finger, you could then modify the other.

BH has updated their website... "Expected availability: December 04 2015". For what that's worth. Perhaps Eric from Pro Video and Tape can tell us if that means the first units will ship on 12/4, or if pre-orders are expected to come before then.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

And you can assign the ND function to the iris control on the handle.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

New Sony PXW-FS5 Footage :

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Not much to learn there. What lens? What settings? Looks really flat (low contrast) to me. Creates more questions than answers.

I do like the dog, though. ;)

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Ok so switching from variND to iris control doesn't disengage the variND does it? Thanks for the info.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

The video is pretty informative and it answers pretty much all of the questions I had. Looks like a great run and gun camera. I normally run with an external monitor with a Waveform built-in, so not having one in the camera is not a big deal. Its light weight and the variable ND are its biggest assets. The 4-2-0, 8 bit 4K are its biggest negatives; it is NOT a cinema camera, but for what I do, it will be great!

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

It doesn't mention this anywhere, but I think all cameras should have a tripod mounting plate..something that you can instantly click on or off.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Isn't that the 1/4-20 thread on the base?

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Yes, all cameras have 1/4 20 tap on the base. What I was talking about is a tripod mounting plate like the VCT-14. You mount the plate on the tripod. To mount the camera on the plate, simply insert the front under the dovetail and click on. To remove the camera, pull one lever and lift. Simple as that. I wish all cameras had a similar option.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Is the FS-5 even long enough to use a VCT-14 and not look ridiculous?

Why not put a VCT-14 base on your FS-5 for $100 and not force it on everyone else?

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Canon makes a TA-100 that is only the front dovetail on the VCT14. It is much lighter and works very well.
You can get VCT-14 front wedges to go on any camera for $59.00.

I used to use the VCT14 on all my cameras even the 5DmkII. Now I have switched to AcraSwiss style on all my cameras and I intend on using that on my FS5 as well. My Jibs, Sliders, all my tripods and my StediCam all use the same system now. So I have a whole bunch of used VCT-14 base plates leftover, I sold a couple already. Some users with full FS7 kits using the brick systems really still like the very quick and positive lock mechanism.

The Acra system is lighter and does not have the irritating slight rock that you only notice when using light cameras, the old ENG 20+ lb cams sat on there really solidly, that is what the VCT14 was designed for.

I switched when I started using FS700 and FS7 cameras. The weight saving on the tripod even over the smaller TA-100 base is quite amazing, and it grips your camera very tightly.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Slightly off topic, but had to share.

Just chatted about how to process the temporal motion of 1080i into high quality 1080p 60fps for YouTube audiences and the discussion immediately went to how "Why are professionals still recording interlaced?" and "Not a single modern camera should record interlaced."

As another key, another friend in the discussion still wanted 60 frames progressive temporal motion and blames 1080i as a "legacy" format and that it's obsolete and outdated...

With 4K 60 frames delayed by lack of ASIC processing logic in the energy efficent/lower cost market, and 1080p60 not a broadcast standard, how do you say as a professional why you can't record in 1080p 60 frames a second when consumer technology has leapfrogged broadcast backbones? You see the tough position I'm in where the "popular standard" is dictated by the pricing sweet spot and that is now unfortunately 4K 30p.

In a few years, you will be frowned upon for having a 4K 30p camera. Just like right now, you are frowned upon for having a 1080i camera when all the consumer tech has leapfrogged it.

$5000 is not and will never be an appropriate price point if you're limited to 30p. I said it before and I'll say it again. I hate having to explain how to de-interlace to people that expect a full progressive workflow.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

We get it. You want 4k60p. This camera doesn't have it.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Jack, I feel your pain but I think you are mixing too many genres. Consumer will never be broadcast but broadcast is slowly losing its grip. My approach is why do I want to have to shoot in any given format? Match the framerate for the best end objective. The resolution is kind of secondary imho.

All of the hype up of 4k is making me nauseous, Consumers get hung up on the numbers or megapixels and resolution because the marketers make it out to be the big deal. When in the end, it really only works if the camera gets plugged directly into a TV. Outside of that there is not much throughout the delivery chain that will keep it truly "4k". Maybe someday but not yet. So trying to appease these spec-focused people is kind of a fools errand, at least from a professional point of view. Imho 1080p will be relevant for many years. I have customers that get wowed by 720p... Just tell them quality is more important than quantity.

To your post, why can't you shoot in 1080p60? If you are shooting for a broadcast show then you would not be talking to consumers for your shooting format. And the opposite applies if you were shooting a skateboard video. As professionals, we are always thinking about delivery, where consumers are thinking about acquisition and having fun. So mix the two. That is the beauty of progressive formats. Shoot in 1080p60 and deliver in another format.

There are cameras out and coming out that shoot 4k60p. I guess the Fs5 is not on the list but do you have clients that are paying you to shoot in 4k or 4k60p? If not then view this era as still in transition where these cameras are the height of 1080p acquisition with a dabble into 4k acquisition. Takes a lot of pressure off. If you do have paying 4k clients then you can charge accordingly for being on the leading edge to buy or rent a camera that fits the goals.

When I see the encoding times for 4k material I want to wait just for Intel to make some faster processors! 1080p to mp4 is long enough.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

I understand Jacks point of view for 4K60P ( UHD ) if the desired picture quality is smooth motion just like 60i. Same temporal motion so the equivalent for HD or 4K(UHD) of 60i is 60P. If one wants 4K( UHD ) to crop and pan/zoom to 1080HD then to maintain that smooth motion one would need to start with 4K60p. Which is my need for acquisition with absolutely no intention of 4K ( UHD ) final export in the foreseeable future. Used this way on a 1080 timeline, it is possible to pan and zoom ( to a HD image ) in precise fashion just not possible in manual mode during the shoot. I have a FDR-AX1 and this approach works just fine but not in all lighting conditions. I too would like a camera ( with the same sort of specs ) but with a better sensor. The DVX200 is close but is handicapped by not having a good wide angle when in UHD 60P mode, the very point the camera will be used most of the time for me.

Ron Evans

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Because my equipment was from before there was a proper broadcast quality codec for 1080p60, and was an industry powerhouse when it came out in 2009. I love XDCAM EX, but I have to restrict myself to 1080i if I want the temporal motion of 60i and still retain 1080 horizontal lines.

To solve my problems for YouTube, I process 1080i first in FFmpeg using "-vf yadif=1" This adds to encode time, but produces a really high quality result. The objection my friends have was why not have native progressive and save this hassle? Cause the camera's too old to to do it and Broadcast chose not to adopt 1080p60 in time for my camera. It's so frustrating cause it's totally not a valid excuse for broadcast not to adopt 1080p60 at this point, but they're opting to skip straight to 4K60p... So there's this gaping hole in broadcast standards that nobody is ever going to use and will be instant vaporware. What adds to the frustration is YouTube filled in that gap recently, but no professional is going to standardize a posting process for web services into something like a SMPTE or ISO standard.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Jack, you worry too much about techno-blabla almost no client understands.
I shoot 1080p25 (I'm in Europe) all the time. Depending on the project, also with an EX1R.
No client ever said to me: "Too bad it isn't as smooth as 50i."

It's sometimes easy to forget, but only people into filmmaking are pixelpeepers.
Clients don't care about such info.
They want great videos that makes them feel good, make the phone ring or sell their products.
Working on camera, editing and storytelling skills will do more for your business than dreaming and complaining about a format your camera doesn't shoot or overcomplicating your workflow while most people don't notice the difference.

I have total peace with 25fps :-)
As soon the FS5 can be rented, I'll be testing it for sure!

I've have one question (completely sidetracking the topic):
if I need a filmmaker/videographer in Canada: why should I pick you?

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

Okay, I know it's probably a dumb question . . . but . . . I have a shelf full of Nikon glass from the last 40 years. I've used some of it on the FS700 for several years. Works great.

Now that I have two FS5 cameras on order, I'm thinking about getting some Canon glass so I can use the autofocus (at times) option.

Question: Will the Tokina AT-X 11-16 autofocus on the FS5? Which adaptor do I need? I have one Metabones (don't have it here to check the model) we use sometimes when a freelance videographer we hire prefers to use his Canon glass. I'm just not sure what I need to get autofocus to work on the FS5.

Thanks for putting up with the basic question.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

I think the official answer is that we don't know yet. Last I heard, the Metabones adapters worked pretty well with Canon glass and so-so with 3rd party glass. Until you compare your exact lens with the same Metabones and a particular camera, I do not think there is a way to tell.

Is it the end of November yet? I'm antsy.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

<Is it the end of November yet? I'm antsy.>

I know what you mean! Looking forward to getting them. I did get the kit lens with both bodies. I also have adaptors for Canon and Nikon lenses, so we'll be good from the beginning. Just trying to figure out how to maximize the utility of the FS5.

Re: New Sony PXW-FS5
 

<Is it the end of November yet? I'm antsy.>

I know what you mean! Looking forward to getting them. I did get the kit lens with both bodies. I also have adaptors for Canon, Nikon and Leica M lenses, so we'll be good from the beginning. Just trying to figure out how to maximize the utility of the FS5.

Hmmm. Wish there were an adaptor for using the Fuji X lenses on the E mount.