Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

+1 I have one camera that has a dual slot for sdxc cards and record to both simultaniously, with all these messages I read on this site about corrupt cards and loosing data having a second card as backup can make all the difference, there is no use of having a expensive camera if you are not able to retrieve that once in a life time moment from a bad card.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Just an update on how I'm getting on with the FS5 and Letus Helix Jr. See pictures of my set-up in posts #12 and #13 on page 1 of this thread for an idea of what it looks like (although those pics were with the Sony 18-105mm G kit lens).

Been playing around with adjusting settings with the excellent iOS Letus App on my phone for the last hour and I think I'm getting close to something that's very usable - really liking the Letus!

The set-up I'm working on at the moment is with my Metabones IV adapter and Canon 10-22mm. Just getting a bit of a kick-back sometimes with the tilt axis - so hope to be working on that tomorrow (if I get time - and also working on settings for the kit lens - and then possibly the Canon 17-55mm lens too). Anyway, once I've got this first attempt with the Canon wide angle as good as I can get I'm hoping to post all the settings on here as they might help someone with a reasonable start point to further refine to their taste.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

So, I received by FS5 today. I was impressed by the build. Though the body is light, once you add lenses, a battery and a shotgun, it gets quite heavy.

I played around a bit with the clear image zoom, both with the kit lens and my own Nikon lenses with the Metabones adapter. The zoom-in function on the kit lens has a little hitch before it sequences to the clear image zoom, so the zoom is not smooth and zooming out is jerky. It can be used in a pinch, but not like a regular zoom. The light sensitivity is not substantially better at the default 1600, than my EX1r. It is ok. I can, of course crank it up. I had it to 20000 which is a lot better than I thought it would be. It is actually usable if you have to get the shot.

It reminds me a lot of the AF100, only heavier and more substantial and, of course, it does 4K, which I haven't tested out yet. Do wish it had a waveform and Vectorscope , but I do have a couple of external monitor/recorders I can use for that function, which will make it even heavier. I particularly like the focus mag function (4x and 8x). I always wished the AF100 had that function.

My newer Watson BP-60 battery does not work, but my older Sony batteries work fine as does my SWIT S-8U62 with the pigtail.

One note, I have large hands and the grip feels small to me. My fingers have to work hard to get back to the focus mag and the zoom rocker because they overshoot those buttons. Lots to learn about and get used to.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

This is odd to say, but this gets better with time. I removed (and ultimately lost) the grip for my FS-100, and never really wished for it. When I got the FS5 I was disappointed to find that my hand didn't fit the grip very well, but over a week or two I notice that it's getting more second nature, and a little less of a stretch to get to all the buttons.

Also, I like clear image zoom more now than a few weeks ago. It does start/stop with a jerk, but I'm hopeful that'll get fixed in a firmware update. (How could it not?) I use manual zoom lenses and the faux servo zoom I hope will come in handy.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Re the battery issue. Not see any issues issues with Jupio brand batteries. One of our major Sony dealers spent a fair bit of time testing these with the FS5. First few runs with them 100% full off the charger and there have been no reset back to the time menu or restrictions on formatting cards.

Re the twittering / artifact edges in 4K at 3200 ISO and above we have have been able to replicate this. Obviously Sony needs to fix this.

An interesting anomaly was discovered when we were chasing this 4K artifact problem. It concerns the Sony E PZ 18-105mm f/4 G OSS kit lens. See if any of you can replicate these symptoms.

Using the handle zoom servo zoom right in and manual focus either with the push momentary focus or manually. Now zoom back quickly to somewhere around mid zoom range and stop quickly as if you were re-framing. The lens is more often than not out of focus. Push the momentary focus button and you will see the lens ease back into focus. Interestingly quickly tap, not zoom, just tap the zoom servo rocker on the handle and the lens will quickly look like it over corrects and snaps back into focus. This is repeatable time and time again if using the handle zoom servo rocker.

Now try the same exercise using the servo control on the lens itself. A quick re-frame and it holds focus. Again this is totally repeatable and the lens maintains focus every time. We thought it might be an issue with the 18-105 kit lens. So we swapped it for another 18-105 which was on the FS700. The errant re-framing loss of focus reared its head again using the handle servo but not when using the lens servo.

We tried the handle off the FS700 just in case it was Lanc control issue on the FS5 handle. Exactly the same problems so it looks like the issue is not in the FS5's handle.

Next test step, We put the Sony FE PZ 28-135mm f/4 G OSS Lens on the FS5, No zoom re-framing focus issues at all. Next step, We put on the Sony E PZ 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 OSS servo zoom lens. Again no issues at all losing focus on re-framing.

To sum up there appears to be a software comms issue between the Sony E PZ 18-105mm f/4 G OSS lens and the FS5 body when using the zoom servo on the camera's hand grip. This obviously needs to be fixed ASAP if this is considered to be 'the' kit lens that comes with the FS5.

Incidentally it made no difference with lens compensation turned to auto or off. Normally this is set to auto. The camera has v1.10 firmware and the 18-105 has v2.0. All up to date in other words.

Love to hear anyone's experiences.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Some great info above.

Question, have you been able to notify Sony Support on the FS5 torn edges problem?

I'm curious to know if Sony is aware of it yet.

Thanks!

CT

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Good real world testing going on here. Would it maybe be a good idea to start a thread with bug-reports & feature requests that could sometime be shared with the proper reps? Things like what Chris discovered with the 18-105mm and requests like having momentary Auto-Focus mapped to the handgrip or the ability to route individual CH1/CH2 audio to headphones for monitoring. I don't think it should be a place where people are requesting (demanding) things like 10-bit 4K 4:2:2 because it's just not reasonable. Perhaps I'll start a thread and moderate it a bit to compile the thoughts.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Really good idea Nate.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

I posted this at the end of the last page, and it got lost when we switched over to a new page, so I'm posting again:

I can get my phone to control the camera, but when I do, the viewfinder is blank so you can't see what the camera's doing from the camera anymore. The way this is written, it seems like I should be able to just watch from a tablet/phone without control. Has anyone made this work?

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

it's Monday here today and believe me as of today down here Sony are aware of the all the issues I and others have mentioned. The lens control issue is I would suggest is a firmware fixable thing as none of the outlined weird behaviour happens with the FS700 using the 18-105. Seeing manufacturers these days are using less dedicated ASICS and more and more FPGA's I highly doubt the problem is baked in, Let's hope this is fixed quickly as its a deal breaker on shoots where you hope the lens will maintain its focus point when it's a parfocal lens, which it is. In the meantime its like using a Canon lens where you have to refocus at each re-frame point.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

+1 on that idea.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Over at eoshd there is also an interesting review of the camera, the owner expected a perfect camera only to find the same issues as already mentioned on this forum. One thing he mentioned though about Sony's doubtful internal quality control is also my experience, I have owned several Sony camera's in the past and some of them, like a vx2000/vx2100, fx1000 where reliable workhorses. Even my cx730 camera's have proven to be very reliable camera's. It started when I got my nex-ea50 and now my rx10 which both had weird glitches, then I also read about the Sony A7S II with the 'black hole' in the sun and now the fs5 which have problems that you might question how that ever has passed Sony's QC.

Alltough most should be fixable with a firmwareupdate the apparently underwhelming 10bit codec have people asking for higher bitrate or just the same codec implementation as on the fs7 but that might be the reason why Sony makes a difference, because if the fs5 looks the same as the fs7 then there might not be a reason to get the fs7. The same tactic Canon has been applying for years to protect sales on higher end models.

When I bought a canon xh-a1 the only difference between the xh-g1 was hd-sdi/sd-dsi out, genlock, and time code but image wise they where identical and for that difference your paid 1000 euro extra but ever since the large sensor revolution started difference in models seem to be made with codec limitations.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Hi All ~

A colleague has just flicked this through to me. More issues raising their heads on the FS5. Have yet to fully understand all the ramifications in this report. Will be downloading the footage and pixel peeping it.

Sony FS5 user reports artifact issues triggered by changing exposure, ND. Visible on HDMI output

Thoughts?

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

I traded my FS5 for an FS7 and had to swallow a $1000,- loss, not considering the price difference between the two camera's.

But I am very glad I did. I don't want a camera with 4K as an afterthought. The difference between 4K on these camera's is enormous. Not surprisingly, really, but still... The FS5 is NOT a mini FS7. You cannot expect 4K shot on a consumer card to look like 4K shot on 'pro' cards. XAVC-I vs XAVC-L in 4K (or 10 bit vs 8 bit) is a massive difference.

Another major reason is that the form factor -which at first seemed an advantage- in my experience became a disadvantage. Because after you build the camera with a lens (other than the limited use 'stock lens') such as the 24-105 with SpeedBooster, BP-U90 battery, camera mic and wireless receiver, perhaps a loupe, the camera is still small but not so well balanced and heavy. And a small, heavy package is harder to shoot handheld than a larger one. Especially if you have to hold it in front of you. And if you're going to use it shoulder mounted (by adding a rig or shoulderpad), the FS7 is so much better with the arm and loupe.

And the difference, to my surprise, is not that big, neither in weight nor size. And since I don't have a gimbal, I don't need my camera to be small for that purpose. (I still have my GH4.)

The FS5 all dressed up is not at all 'stealth' like a DSLR or GH4. It's an impressive camera and obviously not a consumer product.

But most importantly- I wanted my 4K footage to look as good as my HD footage. It became quite clear to me that the FS5 could never accomplish that.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Letus Helix Jr.
 

I promised a while back to update you all on where I'm at with the FS5 and Letus Helix Jr.

At last, found a little time and I've now worked out some settings to get pretty good balance and stable flying with the FS5 on this gimbal.

There is a lot of detailed information, so rather than clutter up this thread I've put together some thoughts on a page at the 'back end' of my website. This covers, firstly the FS5 and then specifically the Letus Helix Jr. I also show some settings from the Letus iOS App (Power, P.I.D etc.) plus lots of pictures showing how I balanced the FS5 with the Sony G 18-105mm kit lens on the gimbal.

Hopefully, this is useful to someone!

SonyPXWFS5

I'll update this website page with more info soon - but in the meantime if anyone has any questions I'll try and answer them (on here) when I can.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

The cards don't have any impact on the image quality, I shoot 12 bit raw onto a sandisc sdxc card, these little cards can also support high bitrates, one difference in image quality between the fs5/7 is the used codec.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

If SD can take the bandwidth then why would Sony bother using XQD cards in FS7? Just seems like they would have sold twice as many FS7 cameras with the added $2000 in media costs

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Would you care to explain how the type of card has an impact on image quality? If I had to guess I'd say the XQD cards just like the P2 cards from Panasonic are build for reliability to support, in Sony's case, the very high bitrates, not to gain massive differences in IQ like Jeroen stated. The card is only carrying the data it receives but it doesn't make the image look any better.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

I can't explain it, thats why I asked. I just always thought SD couldn't handle the bandwidth of the bigger codecs and found your post interesting. Never mind really doesn't matter

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

I have got a 95MB/s sandisc extreme pro card that can deal with 220mbs prores and CinemaDNG RAW from the bmpcc, I just checked to see that Samsung already has cards that support 280MB/s so 3 times faster then the card I"m currently using, I"m not good in doing math but my guess would be they are fast enough to keep up with the 600mbs codecs the fs7 has. It might also be they are borderline usable which made Sony design a even faster card to make sure the camera doesn't stop recording if the card can't keep up.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

My understanding was that the XQD cards are much faster than SD cards. 200 MB/s for the Lexar vs 95 MB/s for the Sandisk Extreme Pro. (which were sold to me a few weeks ago as the fastest SD cards available- I believed him...)

Anyway, you get the point. Whether it's the codec, card, bitrate or some unidentified digital mindboggle- the quality of 4K on the FS5 does not come close to what's produced by the FS7.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

The fastest I know of are not the 95mbs cards but the 280mbs SanDisk 64GB Extreme PRO SDXC UHS-II cards that do 280 MB/s read and 250 MB/s write but there might be faster, dunno. I do get your point about the fs7 being better then the fs5 IQ wise since you seemed to have owned both so I am not arguing about that, I was only trying to make a point that the card itself doesn't make the image better, it only captures the data.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Noa is right of course. The card itself has no impact on image quality, it simply captures the data. Video is stored digitally; 0s and 1s. Those 0s and 1s will be captured exactly the same on a $200 professional SD card or a $10 consumer SD card (assuming both can keep up with the bitrate).

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

I read this as a discussion about bandwidth of media types not that one looks better than the other with exact the same data recorded to it.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

And that's of course what I meant when I talked about 'consumer' cards vs 'pro' cards: speed or bandwidth, Ray. On another note, I can' t imagine the QXD cards are so much more expensive just because they're merely ' more robust'.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

They are not that more expensive, a 64gb 280mbs sandisc card is 130 dollar and a 64gb 440mbs lexar card is 203 dollar and a sony one is 260 dollar. Given the higher supported bitrate I"d say the lexar is normal priced and for the sony one you are probably paying extra for the name as well.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

This certainly doesn't look good. These noise-like artifacts are even more noticeable than any edge noise/tearing samples posted online. Even more worrisome is this happens with the use of the camera's variable ND control, a headline feature of the FS5. No longer in the realm of pixel peeing geeks, anyone who has normal eyesight can see them now.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

It really has nothing to do with bit rate as a 90MB write card can handle 720Mbps, likewise a 45MB card can handle 360Mbps. As Noa said any type of card if it has the capacity and write speed will be able to handle FS7 bit rates that go up to 600Mbps.

Some time back Sony outlined why they went with XQD. They stated that the algorithm used to write the data to the XQD is much more sophisticated than that used by the SD card standard. That being so Sony claim that the likelihood of a total card corruption is far less likely. In the event of a a whole of card failure or a partial data corruption Sony claim that their own propriety data recovery software algorithm is vastly more capable of recovering the data files from XQD cards than the best of SD card recovery software available for SD cards including their own. Sony also claim that the wear leveling technique used in XQD cards is way more advanced than that laid down by the SD standard.

I've also been told by a recovery outfit who recover data from HDDs, cards and various other media that the problem of recovery from Ex-Fat SDXC cards is more complex and often less successful. The reason given for this is that in the SDHC Fat 32 file system there is a 2GB file limit, such as we see in AVCHD, and each file gets closed when that 2GB limit is reached. Whereas the XAVC format be it L or I can be written in one continuous file that on long shoots can be way in excess of 2GB. What was indicated to me was that a failure for one of these large files to close properly can make its recovery pretty difficult. Whereas the in the Fat 32 system each file is closed at its 2GB limit and generally these files can be recovered. In the worst case case you may lose up to around ten minutes in AVCD if the last file is unrecoverable should it be corrupted.

Sony's latest file recovery is available at the following URL. Nothing is guaranteed but this software is optimized for Sony cards not other brands as Sony has its own proprietary way, as do SanDisk, of writing to the cards.

Sony Global - Memory Media Portal - Memory Card File Rescue Version 3.2

More of a background on the benefits claimed by Sony for XQD technology can be found here:

Sony Global - Memory Media & External Hard Drive Portal - Sony XQD™ Memory Card

A point of interest, I haven't be able to confirm if this was because one card was a Sony SDXC and the other was a SanDisk SDXC but this was the situation. An unmanned X70 was recording in simultaneous mode to both cards covering a safety wide shot of a seminar. Unfortunately its battery died. Later I put a new battery on the camera and got the info screen prompting a data base recovery. I proceeded with that and the Sony card was recovered and all the data was fine. The data base recovery attempt on the SanDisk failed. All the data on that card was lost. I didn't bother trying to recover it as I already had the recovered data on the Sony card. Question? Is the data recovery mode in Sony cameras specifically optimized for Sony cards? I'm beginning to believe it is. Since then I just keep buying Sony cards. It's probably all in the mind as I have no empirical proof but I'm feeling more secure with the Sony cards. Plus Sony can't turn around and say "Ah! But you weren't using Sony cards were you." :))

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

In that case I misread. Apologies.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Moving on, I see there is a web report from someone who has spoken to Sony that the FS5 V1.2 firmware will include an option for having Auto Exposure via the Variable ND.

I speculated about this possibility in the review I posted yesterday about the FS5 and Letus Helix Jr. Could be a very useful feature - having a controlled DOF in changing light could be great for some fast moving run-n-gun situations. Some other goodies coming too - GPS being enabled, improved Zebras and a mention of the raw output etc...but release date is yet to be announced.

I won't post the source here - as its not direct from Sony - at least not yet.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Just an update. Went out today to shoot some QFHD test shots and found that one of my bundle of Sandisk 64GB Extreme Pro SDXC 95MB/s Class 10 U3 cards was giving me an error on the FS5 ("card incorrectly inserted - please try again").

Brand new card straight out of the packaging today. It was bought from amazon uk (not a market place seller) about 6 weeks ago along with 5 other identical cards - which have all been absolutely fine/used pretty frequently (on my C100 and occasionally on the FS5 - which they were actually bought for re being 4K capable etc.)

Did not matter which slot I used on the FS5, I still got the error message.

By the way, my Slot B is a tighter fit on SDXC cards than Slot A - so sometimes the cards don't pop out with the internal spring - which is a bit of a pain as you have to then extract them with your nails. Anyone else have this problem on their FS5?

I'm certain the card is genuine and the funny thing is it'll mount on my Mac Pro and on my C100 etc. no problem - and once formatted on the C100 will allow me to record etc. (I only tested that for a few seconds just now). But for some reason, the FS5 just won't accept it.

I don't trust the card at all so have just arranged its replacement with amazon. First time I've ever had a duff card - maybe I've been lucky! I usually thoroughly test every CF or SDHC/SDXC card I buy before it goes in my kit bag - was so busy before Xmas with work that I never got round to testing this particular card. Lesson learnt, back to my old thorough card testing regime from now on!

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

My slot B is tighter than slot A. It feels like it's loosened up with use. They don't get stuck anymore. The first one I really did have to pry out of there.

I have not had the oddball memory card thing in the FS5. I did with the FS100. Sometimes you could format it in another camera and then format again in the FS100 and it'd work fine after that. Sometimes you just couldn't, and I'd retire that one (or in your case, return it).

I gotta say, I grew up on Beta tapes that were $25/ea and recorded 20 minutes. You'd need a case of them to shoot all day. Once we got to solid state memory, it was outrageously expensive and made those $25 betas look like a bargain. Now that we can pick up a 64GB card for $25, it'll hold 2 hours of video and I can re-use it forever... If I have to burn one once in a while... I just don't sweat it.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Ah, so its not just my FS5 that has a tight Slot B then!

Hopefully, now I am about to use the cam on some real work (starting next week) it'll free up with a bit more intensive use.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

I've experienced stuck B slots as well had to pry one out with a knife the other day. Thought it was the card but it happened with several cards but slot A smooth as butter. However the sticking seems random, was even considering putting some lube in there but I'll see how it loosens up. So seems to be s slight flaw here but hopefully will improve.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Don't know if this is the reason, but I have been using Sony SDXC cards and have had no trouble with either slot. They both take cards and eject them with no trouble.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

I suggest you use a few drops of motor oil, works wonders.

Just kidding, never ever do what you had in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if Sony has made it this way that their own cards fit without a problem and any other brand which might have minuscule deviations in size can cause this blocking now and then.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Further update. New replacement Sandisk SDXC card arrive from amazon yesterday. It mounts just fine/no card error message but yet again this one is a tight fit/reluctant to eject in Slot B (the outer one), ejects just fine in the Slot A. Might try and borrow a micrometer sometime and see if there are some minor dimensional differences between the Sandsik cards I have that stick (a few) and those that don't (the majority) - and in what dimension. Then I can get a file out (only joking!!!)

Also, in prepping for some commercial shooting this coming week, I re-checked all my gear and once again had an F-stop error with the Metabones IV and my Canon 10-22mm - the second time this has happened. All my other Canon lenses still worked fine though.

Only way I could "reboot" the Metabones seemed to be dismounting it from the FS5 (i.e. not just taking off the Canon 10-22mm from the adapter) and then re-mounting it again. Then the 10-22mm Iris adjustment worked as expected once re-mounted.

Will have to keep an eye on this...

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

you got me, with some of the posts I have read lately... well, my jaw just dropped :)

For the record my b slot is also a slightly more snug fit... cards pop out fine but inserting them takes a hair more force kinda like the spring is a bit stiffer (doubt it is but thats what it feels like)

Sony PXW-FS5 - ISO/GAIN button disabled on cam body
 

Sony PXW-FS5 - The ISO/GAIN button next to white balance and shutter in manual mode will not allow me to adjust gain or ISO when pressed. I have a choice between auto and whatever it was previously set to. I can manually adjust gain / iso by pressing function 5 on grip zoom then navigating joystick. Is this something Sony needs to fix? White balance and shutter works but not the iso / gain. What if I do not use hand grip then do I need to go into menu and change gain / iso? I don't thing so. Camera will be returned if this is the nature of the beast. Is anyone else having this issue? Thanks for your time in advance.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

from the manual:
1 Press the FULL AUTO button A
to set full auto mode off.

2 Press the ISO/GAIN button G.

3 Set the ISO/GAIN L/M/H switch G
to the desired position.
(The set ISO value or gain value appears.
You can set the value for each L/M/H
switch position using [ISO SET] or
[GAIN SET] in the (CAMERA/
PAINT) menu (p. 121).)