Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Packing my FS5 in a Pelican 1510 (the airline rollaboard one) for my first flight this week. Everything fits well, but the LCD monitor is a bit of a wildcard. In my FS100 it folded into the unit and was thus difficult to damage. However on the FS5 it has no built-in safe place, and even removed I'm not sure what to do with it. Any suggestions?

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

I use my sunglass sleeve to protect the LCD

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Wrap it in a small bubble wrap pouch

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Hi Olof,

Could you please tell me if those Canon FD legacy lenses are good enough for full-blown UHD on this camera? This might be an important factor for me, as I have several of them (used with the FS100 I sold).

TIA, Piotr

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

I do the same thing, would be easy to pack away without the LCD attached but that connection just doesn't seem like something I want to disconnect and re connect daily.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Hi Piotr,

I published this a while ago. Shot on the FS5 using the 50mm f1.4 Canon FD lens from 70's. You can download the file I uploaded from FCPX (yes it is compressed) but it shows use of that lens. here are my comments from the test:

Shot with the FS5 and a Canon EF 50mm f1.4 @ 1.4.
Just playing with PPs a bit. First shown w/o grading, then with grading, in FCPX using ColorFinale and some basic correction then adding REC 709 Tetrachrome 400 FC LUT at 60%.
I also added the Orisis Vision 4 LUT in the end just to see how it pushes around for fun.
t was shot XAVC-L 1080 30P on the FS5 with a Canon 50mm EF f1.4 @1.4 Metabones V4 latest FW.




Here is a UHD partially with the lens:


Notes from that test:
Some basic testing I always do when I first get a new cam.
I started this session with an old Canon FD 50mm f1.4 lens from the 70’s, not sharpest lens wide open, but I always liked this lens. And it is tiny and very light. Used it originally on my old FTb.
Then I switched to the kit lens. It is sharper for sure. For the second half of the tests. Also it was stopped down to f5. I had to use the vari ND to use the f1.4 on the Canon lens. I really like using the vari ND to set exposure, especially on a click f-stop still lens.
I am starting to explore the PPs and so far using scopes and production 20” ProMonitor and my Odyssey 7Q+ I set up two custom profiles yesterday, that I did some outdoor tests with. I will post more footage when I get a chance.
This was shot internally in UHD 30p 100mb/s. No CC at all just dropped in a UHD timeline and exported as best quality 4K (UHD) to Vimeo, you can download the uploaded version, this has been compressed as well by FCPX.
Most of my shooting these days is in HD. I will do a bunch of that also, but I thought it was interesting to start with some UHD.
This is shot in my studio, I have a North facing Palladian window there that casts a very nice natural light, I sometimes use it for interviews. I can vary the BG quickly. But I love natural North light. I white balanced and it read as 6000K pretty normal here for an overcast day.
I know this will be boring to some but this is how I start to explore a new cam, and some of you may find this interesting.
One thing I can’t find in the menus is custom clip naming. Every time I format a card it starts over clip00001 etc. Probably just me. If not I hope next firmware will fix this.
Happy Thanksgiving.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Thanks a lot, Olof!

You probably remember my neck spine, post-surgery problems with the chronic pain (to hell with pain), but also weakness of all 4 limbs. I haven't been actively shooting for some 2 years now, but - being an engineer as much as videographer - I just cannot pass on all those new developments in camera technology (of course I also edit my own stuff). With the additional information that my right arm is trembling under light load (and can be stable under a heavier one, though for limited periods of time) - what would you advise me to buy:

- the lightweight but technologically less advanced FS5, or
- the heavier, but more advanced FS7?

Hint: even with any of them, I would probably be using the tripod or shoulder rig most of the time, if I were shooting serious stuff destined for production, but it's nice sometimes to take just the camera with you, and get some nice shoots hand-held... TIA man,

Piotr

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

The FS5 is not designed to be used as a shoulder mount camera. Can you add a bunch of accessories and turn it into one? Yes, but why bother? The FS7 is the right camera to buy for shoulder mount shooting.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Yes I'm aware that the FS5 is not a shoulder mount camera by design - but that's what meant by stressing that my right arm is not up to the task of holding one stably for a prolonged time...

And what's the general consensus about the low-light performance between the two - is the FS7 much cleaner, Doug?

Piotr

PS. OK, I think my last question ws a bit silly, as there are a plethora of influencing factors; but the measured (not the announced) S/N - is it different between FS5 and FS7? My EX1 has been great, but noisy :( Oh, and I'd like to add that for my current purposes, I'm fine with just 25p in 4:2:0 for UHD...

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

I have not compared the two cameras side by side in low light. But with that said, I disagree with the people who say the FS5 is bad in low light. I have not found that to be the case if the correct settings are used. If you have problems with your right arm, my strong advice is not to buy an FS5 because that is where all the weight and manueverability is located.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

On the other hand, if the camera is good enough to give me a kick - this could be a good exercise for my arm, don't you think?

But seriously: is anyone using it on a shoulder mount with the handgrip attached to the right Redrock-style handle, and with something like Zacuto EVF?

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

The 7 and the 5 are very different cams. Both good at what they do. I don't want to go into this in detail here, enough has been written about that.

If you can comfortable use a DSLR, then you will do great with the FS5. It is about the same weight. Yes it can be adopted for shouldering but the FS7 is made specifically for that so it is much better. A shoulder cam actually needs have some heft to be more stable. This could be a problem if you have a medical condition making your shoulders and arms/neck weak and painful.

A simple chest brace for the FS5, I will be making one of these, is really better for prolonged FS5 shooting IMHO. But I also like shooting with it just as is, like I did with my C100, as a matter of fact you can think of the FS5 as a better C100 IMHO.

Also bear in mind that the FS7 is a far more capable camera with many more features and in my opinion superior processing and options/settings and better image quality, but much more complex, not a grab and shoot like the FS5. And it is certainly heavier than an EX3/EX1 but a very nice shoulder cam lighter than the DSR500 (one of my all time fav cams) and cams like that. But if you are on sticks most of the time and not carrying long distances and possible using a wheeled bag. The FS7 may be better.

As far as low light they are about the same, they have the same imager. Much better than the EX1/3 that you now use, as I remember.

Borrow or rent both or at least demo them in a camera store for a long session on shoulder etc. It will then be obvious which works better for you.

I hope you are having a great winter in Poland. Stay warm...

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

This is exactly what makes me want one, Olof :)

Actually not so great - too little snow and to warm for my taste; winters in Poland have become more of prolonged falls... Climate changes.

Thanks for your advise, Olof. I still think that with additional stuff attached, the FS5 would be heavy enough to be stable on my shoulder, just like the FS100 did - they are more or less the same weight, aren't they.... And I have such a device ready - solid, with Redrock handles and a plate so devised that I can take the rig off my shoulder and fix it to the tripod in a second...

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

I would grab all my stuff, EVF shoulder rig etc. and go to a dealer and see if he would let you rig up a FS5, or maybe rent on for a day and see if it works for you.

If you did not have all the stuff EVF, shoulder rig, counterweight etc then you may as well just buy the FS7 as it is already set up for shouldering with a workable EVF (a bit long and clumsy but it works fine). You can also add a softer shoulder pad (like the one I make or many others on the market) and brick batteries in the back.

The only way you will know is by actually trying it out yourself, we all are built differently and work differently so...

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Yeah... Back to image quality tough: just read through a thread on another forum (comments on the last Sony statement on the "perceived imperfections"), and it doesn't look good for the FS5.

I admit I haven't' read these forums for a long while, so pardon my ignorance - did the FS7 also have such teething problems?

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

It does not feel to me any different than any camera I have purchased since the advent of internet forums.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

First TV spot I've shot with the FS5:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLm9w9mTQIGdZfD5w4Hoik77KchjFLM7Bd
I posted a thread in "Show your Work" as well:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/show-you...ml#post1907677

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Outstanding work, Mike!

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Doug, Olof and other helping souls:

I have another important question, regarding the lenses for both FS5 and FS7. I don't want / can't spend too much initially, so please take it into account in your advice ;) I'd like it to communicate with camera, and preferably not require any adapter, so I guess we're talking Sony E-mount lenses... So:

- is the kit lens that comes with the FS5K any good for general use?
- same question about the FS7K kit lens (I heard the camera distortion compensation doesn't work well with it in 4K - if still true, which one instead?)

TIA
Piotr

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

The kit lens for $500.00 is pretty good. Is it a great lens, no. Do I use it, yes. Do I like it, yes and no.

The good part is with clear scan you get field of view from 18-210 in HD, about 18-160 in UHD, at a constant f4. For $500 this is remarkable. I also find the distortion is well compensated and not an issue on the FS5 in UHD and HD. The lens is basically parfocal and does not expand or spin the front element. The IS works well and it is light and small.

The bad part is, it is hard to focus. Make that very hard to focus manually. The instant auto focus works OK, as a matter of fact it can be the easy to use once you get used to it. But manual focus is kind of ridiculous, it seems to change all the time, sometimes very touchy and other times not very responsive, I still have not made good friends with it after 20 hrs or so of shooting with it.

But the range is so good that I end up using it a lot.

Once again you have to test it yourself to decide if it fits your style of shooting. The 28-135 is a much better lens, but more money, bigger and not really very wide. But that may work for your style of shooting.

Lenses just like cameras are very personal. I have a bunch on Canon L EF glass and old FD glass I really like using on a lot of different cams, so I use them on the FS5 as well.

One great thing about the FS5 is that even clicked lenses are very easy to use with the Vari ND. I have to say I prefer manual lenses to auto lenses.

My bottom line is for $500 the kit lens is so cheap it just makes sense to keep it. But that is just me.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Olof as good a shooter as u are, the focus issue must be serious if you're having problems with the focus.
Can't Sony fix this with a firmware update?

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Maybe, I would say Sony is aware of a number of shooters reporting difficult manual focus on the lens.

It is not impossible, just harder than it should be to manually focus. Using the auto focus by pushing the instantaneous button works OK in most cases, but not in really critical situations. The best way I have found is to use the auto to get close and then fine tune by hand looking at my Odyssey, or 4x mag on the LCD/VF but the problem is it tends to overshoot and it can be hard to nail it exact. Practice with peaking, find the peaking setting that works best for you.

It is not impossible, just much harder than any other lens I have ever had. You can do it but it wastes time, so you may loose a shot. I would never use this lens for shooting wild life or where you have to use a follow focus to repeat a focus move.

I hope Sony does update the FW of the 18-105, to make the focus more consistent. It would make the lens friendlier to use.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

I would think the hood man loupe would help with focussing

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

The problem is not the LCD or EVF it is the way that the lens responds to your movements. Sometimes it is very sensitive and other times it takes a lot to change at all. And it is not consistent, so I find myself really hunting for exact focus even using a 24" production monitor or my Odyssey 7Q+.

And with a follow focus you can't rely on marks to focus, because it changes position for the same focus point.

In other words on a Canon EF lens, I can preset distance points on the FF wheel and it is always repeatable as long as you don't go past infinity on minimum focus. The 18-105 is not consistent it mostly depends on the speed you move the focus ring, but also on where you are in the zoom range.

If I can normally focus in 1 second, it takes me 3-4 to nail focus on this lens or at least it feels like it, and it is hard to nudge focus just a bit. So for some shots it just will not work. The EX cam lenses were very good at this in comparison.

Also bear in mind that on this size imager focus is much more critical.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

I've always wondered y they didn't put an ex type lens on it,would it have been that much more?
Possible u have a defective lens..?

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Manual focus with all of the Sony E mount lenses is a royal pain, a real shame because the feel is nice and because its only a software issue we could even get a nice long throw out of them if they decided to change the firmware

Its not the feel or the fact they are fly by wire... its that say you rotate the focus ring 30mm to focus on a subject 5 feet from you then when you rotate it back the exact same 30mm you could be focused at infinity or 1 foot from the lens... you never know, it varies depending one how fast you turn the focus ring (and its impossible even if you match the speed precisely... I was bored so I tested with a slow geared servo motor :)

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

I will definitely ask Sony at nab

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Well there is a huge difference in a ½" imager versus S35 imager. All the optics have to be much larger and it is very complex to make a big imager lens parfocal.

These are real cine size lenses and get very expensive for any zoom range. The f1.9 10x lens on the EX1 is basically impossible to build for a S35 imager, or at least it would be huge and heavy not to mention the price.

That is one reason the 18-105 is quite remarkable. It would be nice if Sony could make the manual focus work better, but I don't think it is easy or they would have done it already. As it is there is a lot of very advanced wizardry going on.

So for me the kit lens is a great deal, but you have to understand what it will do and accept some shortcomings. For $500.00 it is a great deal. But it is not a cine zoom lens by any stretch of the imagination. It is a very versatile compromise. And I do use it a lot but not exclusively.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

The lens although fixed is the same type on the pwx x70.
It's a 1" sensor and also has that infinite focus ring like the fs5

I have to think Sony will have a firmware upgrade but who knows when if sales continue to xplode

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Yeah - to test the ergonomics of the 2 cameras vs. my physical limitations, I'll probably have to do just that before choosing one. But another consideration is the computer power needed to edit - especially 4K or QFHD; I already have an off FS5 sample in Long GOP thanks to you Olof; could you or anyone else link me to a similar (i.e. off camera, without grading - re-compressing) sample of the I-Frame the FS7 can produce at 4K? I realize these are huge files, so even more TIA :)

Piotr

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Not trying to behave like a devil's advocate, but - given my physical handicap, and the fact I will only probably be shooting QFHD for the pleasure of it (should a paid gig arrive, I'd still keep my EX1 with the nano) - perhaps a wiser choice than the FS5 or FS7 would be the X70 (with the paid 4K upgrade)? It is said to be given 100 Mbps capability soon (free this time), so - codec, framerates and bitrates -wise - it's going to become almost exactly as capable as the FS5 (apart from the imager being just 1" vs. S35 size), right? Opinions, please...

Piotr

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Piotr
I too am shooting ex1r am looking at both cameras fs5 and x70.
I've shot with both and was leaning to the fs5 but the 18 105 lens is a pain manually focussing.
I may go with the 70 now although I wish it's focus was quicker like the ex1

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

First use in anger today. Yes the stock lens is a bit of a pig to focus but nowhere near as bad as feared. Found it had a tendency to lose focus sometimes when zooming out. Unsure of if this operator error or a "feature" of the lens.

Was shooing at 50 meg HD rather than 4K but the unit behaved itself and the centre zoom was a godsend. Really useful feature to have which makes the stock lens far more useful.

Focus assist via the peaking is very good. Screen interface feels more like the old Z1 than the EX1 though. Large text seems to be back in vogue rather than the neater fonts on the EX1.

Seem to be lacking the focus distance display that the EX1 has. Need to dig into the menus.

So far all the niggles are minor and are probably operator error. Footage looks very nice indeed. A huge step up!

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

So it looks like we're in the same boat, Jim. Do you have access to some off-camera clips (no recompression Youtube or Vimeo offer), that would show the reall differences between the FS5 and X70 in low-light sensitivity and noise level?

I used to have the FS100 - a champ in clean picture and low noise even in very low light level situation - but sold it already. Wouldn't like to skimp on an S35 sensor camera only to find out those picture qualities are very noticeably worse! The EX1 - which I'm also planning to sell (only 200 hours on the clock, great condition - so I'm not satisfied with what I'm being offered for it) - is noisy enough :(. TIA,

Piotr

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

Piotr
They are are both very good in lowlight
Unless they have a firmware fix for the focus on that lens I'll get the x70.
I've never had the need to change lens.
My ex1r always served my needs.
Plus 2500.00 vs 6000.00
Is quite a difference.
S log is not important for me either.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

No, the price does not justify the camera for this camera. At $6000, I expect certain features to just work and not have artificial limits that only really is justified on it's DSLR lower down models.

From weird EVF issues during simultaneous recording, to noise reduction issues... This should have been priced around the same as the DVX200.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

I think it's reasonably priced. Yes there are features that aren't working yet and some small teething issues, but Sony are quick with firmware updates (as they've just demonstrated).

It's a super 35mm camera with interchangeable lenses, 422 10-bit HD, UHD recording, a relatively decent codec (not AVCHD), super slow motion modes, etc... There are no other cameras on the market that I know of that can match all of those features for anywhere near that price.

Re: Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions
 

THANK YOU ANDY!

Spend a couple hours wrestling with this exact problem today. I even initialized my FS5 settings to try and figure why my "Direct" menu option disappeared.

Who knew it was something obscure like "face detection" that was blocking this.

Thanks again!

CT