Balancing a glidecam !?
 

Hi guys

I've just bought a Glidecam 4000 (main unit only at the moment). - I am trying to get this thing balanced out and I just can't achieve what I've seen others achieve in their balancing.

YouTube - Glidecam TEST!

If you watch this guy (from 25-35secs) he's throwing it from left to right/front back and the pillar stays vertical. I just can't seem to get my set-up like this !? In a stationary position its balanced and stands vertically but in motion things begin to sway. I've tried one more weight and one less weight at either end and the situation gets worse so I think I have the weight ok. Extension is about 8 inches. Camera is HD110.

Any pointers or advise much appreciated !?

Hi Mat,
you have to move the gimbal on the post to achieve a 2-2.5 sec. drop time. If this is not possible you have to distribute the weights on the stage and on the bottom of the sled to achieve the correct drop time.
Amedeo

Hey Amedeo and many thanks for the swift reply.

The gimbal moves on the post ??? uhh....ok, how do I do this, it looks fixed to me !? 2 second drop time.....man this is way out then.

The gimbal doesn't move on the post on the 4000. You have to alter the amount of bottom weight and/or monkey with the telescoping post to achieve the desired balance, i.e. drop time.

Hi Charles
Ahh ok...I didn't think it looked like it was meant to move. However that leaves me pretty stumped on how to get this drop time. At the moment it feels very camera heavy when it starts to sway BUT the drop is....well it certainly doesnt glide put it that way.

At the moment I have the weight in two piles and either end of the tray, tangent to the edges. 5 disks at each end !? Does this sound correct ?

Hhmmmm, puzzling

OK, so your drop is....? don't leave us hanging!

To clarify: drop time is measured by swinging the rig to a horizontal position, letting go and counting how long it takes before the post swings back to a vertical position (it will obviously pendulum through that point repeatedly, but we only care about the first time). Make sure these are "real" seconds (one-missisippi!). If your drop is longer, remove weights; if shorter, add weights. Yes, with a standard setup you should keep the same number front and back.

If you find that the magic number is between weights, make it a little top heavy (which will result in a longer drop time), then extend the post a little bit and try again until you land at your desired drop.

Ok then....well i think about 1 second tops!


EDIT - RIGHT THEN !!! Now we are getting somewhere - Man this has taken some time. The key seems to be, get the drop time right first and then adjust the cameras position to achieve a better balance....or so it seems anyway!

I'd say the drop is just less than 2 seconds now....is this ok ?
It certainly seems better in motion, a lot more like the motion shown it that youtube link!

Another edit - HHmmm I'm not sure if it was just a flash in the pan or whether something has moved but its still swaying on my running test. Should these things really be that difficult to set up !?

Hi Mat, I too struggled with my Glidecam, trying to balance it so i could throw it about. To get it like this you need a very low drop time, this means its neither top nor bottom heavy. however, truth is when using you wont actually be throwing it around like that, you will always have a hand on the post just below the gimble.

my optimal drop time is 3 to 4 secs drop time. remember were talking seconds, not count. so one one thousand, two one thousand and so on.

the reason the sled drops is because its everso slightly bottom heavy, whivh is fine because that is what makes it stable and your controlling hand can easily compensate. if it were very bottom heavy then it will have a short drop time and be harder to control.

Hi Danny
Yeah I'm starting to see that. BUT, I seem to have gone backwards and forwards. I've read some info that says you should set the post to minimum, some to max. Of course with the post shorter its going to need more mass and vice versa. However I seem to do it, the resulting action suffers from sway and the footage so far looks PISH !

I'm generally pretty good with stuff like this but its really driving me nuts. Can I ask what routine you would follow to balance this thing? oh and what cam your using?

Mat:

The basic balance routine involves adjusting the camera platform side to side, front to back and top to bottom (bottom heaviness). Roughing in bottom heaviness first, proceed to rough in side to side and front to back. You will find that once you "fix" one axis, the next one that is the most obviously off kilter will manifest itself (i.e. if very front heavy, once you dial the camera back it may start to fall to one side, so fix that next).

Once you have static balance and you achieve a 2-3 second drop time, you can begin to work with your rig.

Understand that a rig will almost always "pendulum" or sway when you accelerate or decelerate. The video you posted must have had a fairly long drop time as little of this is apparent. A long drop time is tough to work with especially for beginners.

The true skill of operating a stabilizer is learning how to "contain" the forces of acceleration which is done with the hand on the post below the gimbal. That light fingertip touch that is required to aim the camera also is responsible for gently counter-acting the forces that are manifested on the rig during accelerations. It takes a lot of practice to achieve this--the rig does NOT do it for you. Expect to see plenty of sway and roll in your early efforts.

By the way--you ARE operating with both hands, yes?!

I use an FX1 with high capacity battery and on my gc2000 i use all the weights so the post stays short (long post=more tilt inertia, which isnt normally good).

to balance i get my drop time roughly right, then do my side to side, front to back balance and fine tune my drop. fine tuning the static balance is then done by shifting the weights around.

the heavier the entire rig, the more stable it will beb but for this reason i got the vest as hand held killed me.

asyou adjust the weights and post you will find your balance will shift, just keep tweaking till its done. you may want a quick release as this gets boring after a while. its also worth a mention that the glidecam gimble is a little poo as you can balance it nicely then turn 90 degrees and its all out again.

It took me forever to get mine balanced... I've only used it a couple times because its such a pain in the... gimbal.

Good point about length of post, Danny. Shorter is always better in terms of overall operation (it helps equalize the feel between axes) but with a handheld stabilizer and a heavier camera, a longer post means less weight on the bottom which can make the rig less fatiguing to operate. Worth experimenting to find a happy medium.

And yes, the Glidecam gimbals are not that great when it comes to linearity.

Hi guys. OK today I've had a little more success. Charles thanks for your words, and I can see this thing isn't a plug and play solution for sure. I have got it balanced today, not perfect but enough to go out into a bit of local woodland and try it out.

I am going to capture some of the results shortly and I'll throw it up in this thread.

It is certainly hard on the wrist and I think a wrist brace would certainly help. I can also see that to use this for any length of time needs the vest/arm. Not only that though I did feel, 50% of my concentration was going into holding the thing up which of course means less on getting the shot right.

Anyway, for now thanks for all the help guys and I'll post some footage shortly....unless its terrible ;-) !

Hi Mat,
I am glad you have improved your rig set up. Now it is time to fly. I am sure you'll have great satisfactions with your rig.
Best,
Amedeo

Ok then guys.

Heres the result of about an hour or so, I thought the trees would be a good test because of all the vertical reference and because I'll be using this thing mainly for sequences like these in wildlife shorts.

These are the best takes and about 1/3 of the footage I shot in total. A couple are pretty good but you can see the sway in there. I can certainly appreciate how much easier it would be with the full rig!

Views and tips much appreciated !?

Glidecam 4000/HD110 - Woodland footage on Vimeo

Mat:

You are off to a good start. Your footage looks like decent beginner footage--just keep working away at it and scrutinize your results and things will improve. Keep your grip as light as possible.

By the way, if by "full rig" you mean the Smooth Shooter setup--that will improve your stamina considerably but not the sway in the shot per se--that is all coming from your guide hand and wouldn't be affected by the vest and arm.

Hi Mat,
the Smooth Shooter will allow you to boom up and down the sled and/or to keep it in a constant position with more precision. I have seen the video and as remarked by Charles is very important you keep your grip as light as possible. With a 2-3 sec drop time the sled will be more stable during accelerations/decelarations without the necessity to compensate, but, for example, when you make pans a very little "not neutral" force applied during spin with your grip hand will determinate a tilt of the post.
Amedeo

Hi Mat,

OK, so hopefully you have the rig set up for 2.5 to 3 second drop time. 2 seconds is probably too fast for a beginner. To make sure you are counting correctly, you can compare your verbal counting with an online stopwatch, like this:
Online Stopwatch

So now everyone is telling you to lighten your grip. This actually applies to both hands, but the sled post hand in particular. OK, so the next question is, ummm, how exactly do I do that? If you go with a really feather-light touch, does your framing go off? Right.

Here's the issue. You have your rig in balance, now you have to get your body in balance - at all times. In other words, you need to need to get to the point where you can constantly control the position of the sled completely with your hips, without even touching the rig. This way, the feather-light touches on your hands will not get trounced by the sled wanting to move around.

I found trying to learn how to balance my body while trying to frame subjects at the same time damn near impossible. Whenever I would concentrate on framing, my body balance would suffer, and that would move the sled around, which forced me to tighten my grip, which made the framing and stability worse.

So after getting a little depressed, I decided to forget about framing for a while, and just concentrate on getting my body in balance. In other words, if I could get my body balance to become second nature, then when my mental focus moved onto framing, the sled wouldn't be moving around so much, and I could actually hold frame with a feather light touch.

So I switched the camera off, and practiced hands-free (keeping my hands close but not touching) 2-3 hours a day, for a week solid. This worked. After a couple of days, I got to where I could control the sled position relative to my body without touching, while walking, starting, stopping, etc. After 5 days, I could change directions, change positions, etc., all without touching. After a week, it kind of became became second nature.

Then I started working on framing, and until you get to be like Charles, I don't think you ever stop working on this, but you can get usable results fairly quickly.

Every once in a while, when I find my body getting out of balance, I do 5-10 minutes hands-free practice as a refresher.

Hope this helps.

Many thanks guys.

Dave- This is great, many thanks. I shall run through this and see if I can get things running smoother. I will try and do an hour a day and then do the same test in the woods again.

To be honest in a way walking across a woodland floor with branches, leaves and uneven ground was certainly a challenging first test...but hey it can only get better i guess :-) !

Mat, body balance isnt so important as you are using it handheld. Many of daves balance suggestions are if you had the vest and arm.

Ahhh ok....blimey, now I'm getting confused again :-/ so what should i be concentrating on to improve things at the mo ?

Keeping that hand on the post as light as possible.

And assuming its balanced right as close to the gimble as you can. Basically, you want to be touching the centre of gravity so you can control it. If you ever see somone holding their glidecam halfway down the post just ignore them.

Flairing
 

Mat,

You might try getting a forearm brace or a "tennis elbow" support which will help with endurance. It is hard to concentrate on framing a shot when your arm is "burning".

Some great suggestions from the group as usual. If I were to add anything it would be to "feather" or "flair" your shots which means you start the camera moving before you start your body moving-then when you stop, stop your body first and then the camera. This helps with abrupt movements.

I also like to spread my control hand fingers out on the post just below the gimbal. This way, when I feel the bottom start to swing or "pendulum" out, I can help to correct it As Charles mentioned, the tricky times are during acceleration, deceleration, and direction changes. These are the times when your rig will want to sway the most.

Remember the steadicam motto: Practice, practice, practice

Best to you,

Tery
Indicam

Good evening,


what a great thread!!

Mat, how is it going with the practice???


with the job I have coming p I was considering buying one of these. the demos make such good video!!

It should not surprise me there is a lot more to it than strapping it on and going!!!


we start late may, so I should get one and get practicing.

A lot of usefoul information here!!!

thanks to all sharing their experience!!!

Beginning the steadicam path.
 

Thanks so much guys for these comments. I just changed the drop time to around 3 seconds and it's helping tremendously as I'm a rank amateur. I just got my rig today and my arms are burning. I am going to get an arm support first and then a full steadicam bodyrig.

I'm really enjoying this and the balancing wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be but I left the lens cap on and it's funny how that little bit of weight throws the whole thing off....


I do have one thing that's going to help me on this. I do kungfu and Tai chi and I think that moving from the core and the stuff that I've done with isometrics should help and I"m trying to incorporate my tai chi stepping into this which emphasizes the same height and not a bobbing step...


I'm just wondering, what training DVDs or online tutorials do you recommend? Classes? I'm all about practicing with this so I don't mind putting in the time and I believe wholeheartedly in learning from the experts...


Thanks again for your words of assistance.

We sell a very good training DVD entitled "Stabilizer Basics"that has been well received. If you are interested you can check out our website at indicam.com
Glad to hear you are getting better at steadicam operation.

Glidecam Video
 

Glidecam now has a video on their site which demonstrates the balancing pretty well. Not sure if that was already around when this thread originally started: http://www.glidecam.com/vid/mov/md/s...of_balance.mov

The voice over is pretty entertaining and dramatic.

"Leave about 1-inch of Telescoping Post Showing below Telescoping Clamp"
 

I realize this thread is quite old but just in case someone is reading this so they can balance their Glidecam, there is a statement in Glidecam Pro 2000 instructions that should help.

To wit, quote from page 15 for picture 29A, second paragraph, of their instructions (which may have changed since the prior post of April 2008):

"Leave about 1-inch of Telescoping Post showing below the Telescoping Clamp", then read my #2 below.

The Telescoping Post is the part that goes inside the shaft with the gimbal. The Telescoping Post attaches to the "Base Platform" which is the plate that gets the weights attached.

Editorial comments:

For info #1: I just did a preliminary balance and adjustment with my camera rig in about 30 minutes, having never done this before - but reading the Glidecam Instructions - and came pretty close to what seems like a fairly good balance. Obviously, though, it's going to take a lot more work before I can shoot.

For info #2: once the system is reasonably balanced and one is getting kinda close to the drop time with the weights, I found that moving the Telescoping Post up or down only about 1/8-inch made a HUGE difference in the drop time.

Hope this helps anybody who reads this far.

The instructions can be downloaded from their web site in *.pdf

Re: Balancing a glidecam !?
 

Thanks John, Can you give us the web about this information?

Re: Balancing a glidecam - Web page references
 

The Glidecam Manuals for the 2000 and 4000 can be found at this URL: Glidecam Product Support

After re-reading some of the posts above, for those who might have problems with their arms in supporting all the weight, I'd like to suggest something like the "Glidecam Smooth Shooter". While the beefier models have a demonstrator that obviously works out in the gym, the Smooth Shooter is operated by a cute chick without all the muscular attributes! :-)

Smooth Shooter demonstrator: Glidecam Products

Hope this helps finding the web pages easier.

Re: Balancing a glidecam !?
 

I have been researching this as well. I found these video demonstrations to be very helpful for balancing DSLR's on the Glidecam HD-2000 that I have.

Glidecam Tutorial for DSLR Cameras | DSLR Feed
YouTube - Tutorial - Glidecam 101 Part 1
YouTube - Glidecam 101: Part 2

Although, after getting it balanced, I realized I do not even come close to having the muscle strength in my wrist and forearm to hold it for more than 3 seconds! I am now searching to buy a forearm brace. I'm hoping this will work, as the smooth shooter thingy is WAY out of my budget!

Re: Balancing a glidecam !?
 

Hi Lisa

You are probably wasting your money on a wrist brace!! It's still going to be pretty heavy so rather spend the money on gym!!!

Seriously I would get rid of the sled and rather get something like a Blackbird or Merlin where your hand is under the camera and it will be a lot less weight to hold. You have to be pretty well built to hold a glidecam steady even with a DSLR on it!!

My cameras clock in at around 8lbs so for me it's a vest only..I would dare not attempt a handheld shot for even a minute.... even if you feel you can lift the sled and camera because of the leverage, you will find that your arm starts quivering like jelly after 30 seconds.

Chris

Re: Balancing a glidecam !?
 

Well that's unfortunate. I do work out, a lot. But I'm still a woman, and my wrist and forearms I guess are never gonna be that strong. Maybe my husband will be the glidecam man then. It seems like everything I've been buying lately keeps leading to more and more expensive purchases...DSLR, welll, I need at least two, then I need a belt/bag to stash it all in, then I need a chair to edit in so my back doesn't kill me within an hour, then I need...and on and on...

8 $

Sorry, a little defeatist today...please forgive.

Re: Balancing a glidecam !?
 

The WEIGHT is the same on either rig. The off-set handle on the Glidecam is there to absorb the up and down motion, of which the Merlin and Blackbird are incapable. The handle on the Glidecam acts as a lever on your wrist, and that's where you feel the weight. The arm brace literally braces your wrist to cope with the weight.

I've seen plenty of women hold a Glidecam + DLSR for quite a while longer than 3 seconds. Try switching hands.

Re: Balancing a glidecam !?
 

Actually the offset handle on the Glidecam is there to avoid patent infringement which was relevant when it first came out (that patent has expired, hence the Blackbird).

All handheld stabilizers rely on the remarkable ability of the human arm to absorb shock. The Glidecam shows no specific advantage in this area. If the operator is skilled enough to operate the system properly, you will not see any additional vertical rise or fall in the center-gimballed rigs vs the offset gimballed rigs. What is more critical is the design of the gimbal itself in terms of isolation from the operator's angular influence. Unfortunately many Glidecam gimbals have proven to be built non-linearly, and thus will have a tendency to dip when rotated 90 degrees from a balanced and level position.

The Merlin is the lightest of the rigs out there because of its construction and design so it will be the least burden. The Blackbird weighs a bit more--I couldn't say whether a similarly configured Glidecam is more or less, but as noted the offset gimbal will be more tiring because of torque on the wrist.

With any stabilizer, fatigue will have a direct effect on the final results; if the support arm is going into muscle failure, it will be very challenging to maintain the same minute subtlety with the guide hand. Over my career I had many instances where I had to put myself into a Zen-like trance as I came to the close of a super-long shot and my legs and back were screaming at me, trying to isolate the nuances of my left hand on the post!

Re: Balancing a glidecam !?
 

I was never told, nor was I aware that the sole purpose of an offset handle was to avoid patent infringement. It seemed to me as a logical approach to an alternative handheld stabilizer because it closely resembles the gimbal on the larger rigs.

The human arm is capable of much greater freedom of movement than the mechanical steadicam arm. And you will notice vertical movement when there are objects in the foreground.

I am aware that Glidecam gimbals are not always linear. But they can be easily adjusted. I also know Pilot and Flyer gimbals can been faulty as well.

I agree that the offset handle increases torque on the wrist, hence the arm brace.

The one thing you have to consider is the price difference. A DSLR is pretty lightweight, and there will always be exceptions. Most people are able to use the rig without the arm brace for extended periods of time.

I've been an operator for about ten years now and I've done live TV shows. It's a bitch, I agree. I know Zen when it comes to operating ;)

ps. I'm a big Charles Papert fan. I wish you all the best on the new career!

Re: Balancing a glidecam !?
 

Thanks Pascal. All is going well--just shot my second network pilot and believe it or not, I don't miss flying the rig at all...!

The patent thing is based on distant memory--I may have it wrong but I seem to remember Garrett talking about having to go after another company that attempted to sell a JR knockoff in the US years ago.

Sadly, the more weight one carries in the hand, the more effective the vertical isolation! But I do feel that having a good handheld-style walk rather than plodding along goes a long way to avoiding seeing the pogo effect.

Personally I've never been good at the handheld stabilizers, the touch is too delicate for me. The Pilot was as small as I go. And yes you are right, Tiffen gimbals are not immune from issues--but it would seem that the GC ones were very prone to them, from all I have heard and seen.

Re: Balancing a glidecam !?
 

Owning a Glidecam HD4000, (and use a vest and arm with it) I would agree with you, however, along with the problems with the gimbal also goes a very simple way to fix (unlock, then 4 set screws 90 degrees from each other around the gimbal, then lock down again) and with a few minutes on your hands, you can dial in the gimbal to about as perfect as you can get in this weight and price range. I did it once and it's been fine since, and it was a relief knowing that I could do it again easily if need be with just a T wrench and small allen wrench. That said, as I get more and more opportunity to operate, I am looking to the mid range tiffen rigs as a possible future. It does seem to me more and more as I mod my HD4000 to do what I want it to do, that if you were to just start with a high quality gimbal, almost everything else on a sled could be built or parted together with much better effect, for a fraction of the cost of a full tiffen or other non low-end rig.