Am I stepping on the DPs toes by creating my own shot list for them?

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks, I wanted to do that haven't been able to find enough time to learn how to use frameforge, and no one else I know, knows how.

Perhaps I should try to find the time to learn, if it's worth it :). With FrameForge, does that mean I just need to bring a laptop with me, on set? Would carrying a book of storyboards be easier though for quick access and making notes, compared to a computer, when shooting time is fast?

[Josh Bass]

I didnt mean bringing it with you to set. I was thinking you measure or guesstimate the size of your real set for the shots you are worried about, recreate it in frameforge (or again, a similar program), pose some character models in it, and test out your shot theories and editing ideas (I think it does at least some rudimentary animation). In your own time, long before shoot day. I think there’s a free trial, possibly unlimited duration but limited assets and features. Work around the limits or buy full version.

As for learning it, as a friend once told me...”Youtube University. Classes enrolling now.”

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks. Do you think it's best to do a preliminary shot list before visiting locations? That way you have the shot list beforehand, where as once you are already in the location scouting stage, things get so busy, and I like having as much done as I can before then.

But if it's better to do the storyboarding after the location scouting, than I can try that. But if I'm not suppose to bring the laptop with the frameforge shots, to the shootings, what am I suppose to do, print them out and bring paper printings of them?

[Josh Bass]

My mistake. I thought you meant doing the design/tests in Frameforge on shoot day. Yes of course, bring laptop or print out, whatever works best for you.

You can "intellectualize" a shot list before you visit a location, sure, but you may see some real cool feature or angle when you scout and change your whole game plan. I would think you do as much as you can when you have unlimited time (i.e. not while scouting/shooting/etc.) and modify as necessary upon scouting.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks. In my experience if I change the game cause of something interesting in the location, I've had viewers respond negatively to it, like the only reason why I shot at this awkard angle was to get this ne thing in the background, which draws too much attention, etc.

But maybe I should look at it more positively, and be more open to it, as it could produce good result as well :).

I'm guessing bringing a laptop would be better, as frameforge can then play back camera moves on the shots, as well, is that right? Like when you use frame forge, does it export videos of the shots, so you can see how the camera is suppose to move, or what kind of files, do you view this in with frameforge?

Also, as director, I want don't want too many shots in a scene, cause that means more shoot time where as you want to get the actors in and out of a location to save on as much time and money as possible.

But is there such thing as a scene not having enough shots, for the audience's liking? My last short film for example, all took place in one location. I'm still editing it, but so far it's about 7-8 minutes long. I shot it with just six shots, in order to save on shoot time. So that is six shots for a 7-8 minute short film that is all in one location.

But will audiences want more shots for a scene, or something like 3 shots for 5 minutes of screentime, perfectly acceptable as long as they are into the story?

[Josh Bass]

I don't Frameforge that well, honestly. I know it exists, has a lot of potential, and I think can do rudimentary animation on it (see what a dolly move etc. would look like). I'd check Youtube for videos of it in action.

Some of your other questions don't really have "right" answers in my opinion. "Will audiences like....?" Maybe. Everyone is different. Everyone has an opinion. There have been movies done in almost one seemless take with a few hidden cuts, there have been movies with a billion (not literally) cuts, and everything in between. I remember many scenes in Slingblade were one long take, for 5-10 minutes. Sometimes a wide/master. Mood/tone/context all apply here.

Possibly if you can post examples of past work and what people criticized about it we can tell you in a more satisfying way WHY they responded negatively.

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks. I didn't exactly get any criticisms for having very few shots, it's just that the shot lists are unusually low, and wondering if it would make the movie the editing or pacing more slower than usual as a result.

[Charles Papert]

Originally Posted by Ryan Wray

Oh okay thanks. In my experience if I change the game cause of something interesting in the location, I've had viewers respond negatively to it, like the only reason why I shot at this awkard angle was to get this ne thing in the background, which draws too much attention, etc.

I think you've answered your own question here. Building shots around the location is frankly the most logical thing to do (I find it much easier to build a shot list based on a real location than on some imagined version of it) but "forcing" a frame is never ideal. If the location presents an opportunity, see if it can fit the scene...but if it doesn't, don't push it.

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks. Well when I do the shots before I visit the location, I do them without the background in mind, and I just concentrate on how I want the characters faces to be framed and composed, for emotion.

So in the preliminary storyboards, I'm just concentrating on angles on faces, and blocking, without really thinking about the background of the location for the time being, which can be changed later, once we get a location, unless that's a bad way to go.

[David Peterson]

Originally Posted by Charles Papert

It sounds like you are very particular with the shots you want to get!

If storyboards help you communicate best with your crew, then by all means use them. Often the last few degrees of specificity for a shot is found on the day when all the pieces are in place. A storyboard may indicate the size and position of the actors in the foreground but usually doesn't include much background, which is an important factor in landing a frame (often I will line up the background perspective first and place the actors into that frame vs the other way around). We generally use a finder of some sort to help with is--more often than not these days, an app like Artemis will suffice to communicate exactly where you want the camera. And of course, you are free to adjust the frame once the camera lands!

That is a VERY interesting perspective on the audio dept and one that I have never encountered before. The usual protocol is that we rehearse a scene, director and DP will adjust blocking to accommodate camera/lighting concerns and we set to lighting it. As cameras land for a setup, the boom op and mixer will usually confer about the best way to mike it and proceed. In a perfect world, the boom op is rehearsing his positions while lighting is going on to look out for potential shadows on the set. At that point they will point out potential issues and I can help them with teasers, or turn off practicals that may be causing issues and aren't in the scene etc. Sometimes they wait too long to do this (like right before we roll) and this makes it harder for me to accommodate the, so the mixer may opt to go with the wires for part of a scene.

So generally speaking, sound follows cameras once they are placed but they rarely ask for information further ahead of time than that. If I know we are about to do a certain shot that requires extra planning on their part I may let the mixer know in advance if I can remember to! For instance, we did a very long walk and talk last year that required my team to run two separate receivers for video transmission to cover the whole run and we switched between the signals halfway through. I walked the mixer through the intended path well ahead of time so his guys would have time to string cable for their receivers alongside ours.

This is true. Usually the sound department has to work around what the camera (and lighting) department does (which means waiting on them to first figure it out, then reacting quickly once we know with a plan that works best for sound under those strict conditions).

Because unfortunately almost never will sound be given first priority!