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Old September 17th, 2019, 05:42 AM   #46
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

As your films become more complex, "events" will mean changes and having the confidence to make changes is part of improving as a director.

Noticing how an actor does something that's better than you thought may bring about a change. Soap operas tend to be more rigid in their blocking, because you don't have much time to vary, however, shot suggestions by the camera operators will be taken if better than the planned shots.

Flexibility is part of live action directing, it's not as controlled as say animation, where it will be pinned down after much discussion before you get too far into the animators' action drawings.
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Old September 17th, 2019, 06:48 AM   #47
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

I have to deputise for directors when they get called away, or emergencies happen - in every single case, I am 100% certain my decision is correct, but loads eventually get changed as the director is simply good at it and I'm not!
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Old September 17th, 2019, 12:21 PM   #48
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

Yep the blocking can be changed if there is something better. I just feared that something more might go wrong with change such as a continuity error or the 180 degree rule or 40 degree rule accidentally being broken, or something along those lines.
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Old September 17th, 2019, 12:33 PM   #49
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

Ryan - in the one you showed us your location changed and important plot points were ignored - and yet you think rules are more important?

I don't even know what a 40 degree rule even is!!!

How will a good vs poor storyboard frame lead to continuity errors? I n' fathom your connection here.
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Old September 17th, 2019, 01:03 PM   #50
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

I think hes saying if he doesnt have each shot exactly planned out and stick to that plan hes afraid he might have someone standing in the wrong place one shot vs a matching shot, that kinda thing.
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Old September 17th, 2019, 02:41 PM   #51
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

Yeah that's what i am saying. I though sticking to the shots and not deviating might help keep those things in order.
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Old September 17th, 2019, 03:01 PM   #52
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

Let me suggest this:

If you shoot your master/wide shot of the whole scene first (like you SHOULD be), you can always refer back to that (play back footage) for continuity and blocking at every step in the closer shots/coverage. Then if you deviate from your storyboards you have a blueprint for the scene to keep you honest on screen direction and continuity. Make sense?
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Old September 17th, 2019, 04:20 PM   #53
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

It's 30 degrees apparently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30-degree_rule , which makes more sense than 40 degrees, which would be extremely limiting.

Although, i wouldn't get too paranoid about it, since it gets broken quite regularly during interviews, it also depends on the action..

Continuity is less of an issue on video, because you can check it on playback if you've got a doubt. However, storyboards won't prevent continuity errors, having an eye for detail and making continuity notes is what you need. Storyboards can only be a snapshot in how you previsualise a shot, it's not the shot in its entirety and there will be a lot more going on in a scene than can be represented in it, so you're wide open for continuity errors.

It's not unusual to cheat positions and heights when shooting a scene.
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Old September 17th, 2019, 05:15 PM   #54
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

Oh okay, I thought the continuity flaws would be less though, if the blocking was already planned out and rehearsed in advance, rather than trying to come up with new blocking on the spot.

Plus I thought the storyboards would help for the more advanced scenes for sure, such as the chase scenes, fight scenes, etc.

Last edited by Ryan Elder; September 17th, 2019 at 11:13 PM.
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Old September 18th, 2019, 12:29 AM   #55
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

Continuity errors can be caused by many things, from mistiming moves, the glass being less full, an object in the wrong place or disappearing, the actor uses their right hand instead of their left hand and many other things. These issues come up regardless of when you block out the action. Continuity is a job on a drama crew, so if you don't have someone doing that job, the camera operator and the director needs to keep an eye out, otherwise coffee cups can appear on the table in a fantasy drama.

Storyboards assist in many ways, but they're not the answer for everything.

BTW I've read Walter Murch's book and I recall reading the 30 degree thing in it. but since I had already learnt something similar from actually making films/TV productions and watching them, just I didn't go around rigidly applying 30 degrees to everything, so I just do what looks right and is natural for cutting a scene together. You can do this in your head as you watch the rehearsals, that's something you should do even if you've storyboarded it.

Last edited by Brian Drysdale; September 18th, 2019 at 01:29 AM.
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Old September 18th, 2019, 02:45 AM   #56
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

With my educational hat on - consider the reason rules are formulated. Wasn't this particular one (30 degree) the result of somebody noticing over 100 years ago that some edits made the view 'jump'? After reviewing edits, it was noticed that the effect increased when angles got narrower, and by observation, it evolved into a 'rule'. In a multi-camera studio, especially on a small set, these angles sometimes get pushed because there really isn't the space to generate wide angle differences. They cheat a little by height changes which mean that the backgrounds have a significant change, while the heads might stay quite similar from the previous shot. The background shift seems to trick the brain into not finding the narrow cut jarring.

The weird thing of course being nobody notices until one cut doesn't work.

The killer with the visualisation software is simply time. I tried drawing a sketch on paper of this room. It took me 30 seconds. I then tried doing the same thing in my 3D software plan app, which works very similarly to Frame forge. I drew some walls, added some windows, fireplace and sofa etc from the library. Set the camera in the right place. 15 minutes later I got the image. Which is best? Not sure, but one took a lot longer and is nowhere near accurate in terms of content or placement.
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Old September 18th, 2019, 03:07 AM   #57
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

The use of enlargements from 4k cameras for use in HD productions don't always look that good when cut directly together.

Life drawing classes are worth doing to improve your drawing skills and how you see spatial arrangements.
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Old September 18th, 2019, 03:38 AM   #58
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

I took a life drawing class once, but probably at 17, for the wrong reason............
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Old September 18th, 2019, 04:16 AM   #59
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

I've used frameforge for a number of short films, it helped me to lay out what I visualised and 'see' it outside my head. I can't draw for nuts so Frameforge it is

I could see and fix problems in camera placement, angles and blocking, but I think the most important thing for me was being able to hand out the storyboards to others and say 'here's what I'm thinking'

Sure, things change in production but at least we have a common starting point.

The current film I'm directing has storyboards for 1 scene and not others and I find more conflicting ideas and debate when there is no starting point. I'm much prefer to have storyboards all the time - I just ran out of time.
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Old September 18th, 2019, 04:23 AM   #60
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

It really depends on what works for you personally.
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