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Old September 22nd, 2019, 01:12 PM   #106
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

You can shoot a feature in six days, however, there will be limitations, so don't expect to shoot an action film in six days. You most certainly won't be doing 20 takes on every shot.

I also see little point in just shooting a film as quickly as possible for the sake of it, especially with an inexperienced cast and crew.

Shooting unscripted events would be good training for someone who obviously can't make decisions. It's like learning to speak in public, the only way to get better is by doing it and getting practice.

One director described directing as being like having your house on fire and deciding on what are the most important things to save before it burns down.

Last edited by Brian Drysdale; September 22nd, 2019 at 01:53 PM.
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Old September 22nd, 2019, 02:05 PM   #107
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

Oh by feature length it seems that a movie that is 80 minutes or over, I thought was considered a feature. Unless I'm wrong :). As for shooting unscripted events, I've done it before, but I feel I have more experience in other areas, such as editing and sound, and want to learn more about directing, rather than being the camera operator or cinematographer. I thought I would learn more by directing scripted events therefore.

The feature length project I was storyboarding is a horror thriller, so it would have a lot more set ups though. Like an action movie, a horror movie still has actors running away from other actors, and hiding and things like that. So there would be more shot and lighting set ups, right, compared to a comedy or drama?
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Old September 22nd, 2019, 04:18 PM   #108
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

There are no rules about complexity, horror genre films have traditionally been lower budget and many have short schedules.

There are shorter feature films than 80 minutes. The Academy of motion arts and sciences, AFI and BFI give 40 minutes or longer, the screen actors guild 75 minutes or longer. Centre national du cinéma et de l'image animée in France 58 minutes and 29 seconds. Since you don't have double bills these days in the cinemas, you're less likely to see many of the shorter features.

You can learn a lot by filming real people and how they interact and their body language. Most of human communication is nonverbal, up to 93% according to some, with 7% though the words themselves.
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Old September 22nd, 2019, 08:28 PM   #109
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

Oh okay thanks. Well I can shoot with however many takes are necessary, and just hope it doesn't take a lot of days, if that's best?
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Old September 23rd, 2019, 12:38 AM   #110
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

Well, the psychology of the actors comes into it and if you're not paying the crew they'll get pissed off if you keep doing large numbers of takes, like some directors.

One advantage to shooting film on a lower budget is that forces discipline onto the director and crew, there's a point where you'll run out of film, so you need to ensure that you've got all you need to tell the story without excessive shots.

One director of an award winning short said she thought it was tough on the actors because they had to stop after 2 or 3 takes if they had got what she needed, rather than going for even better. If you have to do 7 takes on a couple of shots, it really throws out your shooting ratio on a short film.

Having the expensive stuff going through the camera concentrates the mind, even more so if you're shooting with a clockwork Bolex so you're limited to 28 seconds for each shot. "Bait" is a current feature film shot this way, the director also processed the film himself. The dialogue was done in post production.

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Old September 23rd, 2019, 02:23 AM   #111
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

interesting
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Old September 23rd, 2019, 12:21 PM   #112
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

Oh ok.. Well as far as planning shots go, i feel i should shoot two masters and a close up of each major character for coverage, and then any other shots that are emotionally called for. But do i need more than that, when trying to save time?
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Old September 23rd, 2019, 01:07 PM   #113
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

There are no rules, it depends on the scene and its content.

A pretty standard TV method is a master, which you may or may not be used used in the final edit, but it also acts a rehearsal and everyone can see what's going on, then move in for the closer shots, you may or may not need CUs - MCUs may be enough - it depends on the scene and may only need one CU at the dramatic point.

However, that's a bit predicable and probably relies on talking heads, so it's used mostly in TV soap, where you have a tight schedule and everything is on the nose,

Where's the master shot here?

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Old September 23rd, 2019, 06:33 PM   #114
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

I would say in that clip, the mastershot starts in the opening, with the camera behind the audience members heads and then it keeps cutting back to it, off and on, throughout the sequence. Would that be right?

For my project, I was thinking of shooting it like High and Low (1963), which relies a lot on wide shots. Here are some clips from High and Low I found:

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Old September 24th, 2019, 12:36 AM   #115
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

You've already mentioned "High and Low" in another thread, since you've seen this video on blocking, it gives more information than can be supplied in forum messages, it's a matter of you doing. As it' says. you need to position the camera so that it reveals the nature of the characters, behavior as they interact with each other and you can't learn that from forum messages.

You need to know each character better than the actors and that means more than knowing the lines, it's knowing their needs and how each moment moves towards towards successfully or failing to reach the need of each character. Telling that is a directors job.
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Old September 24th, 2019, 05:15 PM   #116
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

Well for the conference room scene for example, I was thinking of having these shots:

1. Master shot of meeting room with the police inspector (it's a police station), giving a briefing in front of a project, in the background of the shot.

2. A medium close up of the inspector.

3. A gimbal shot, where the camera moves horizontally, past the officers from one to the other as they observe what is on the screen.

4. A medium close up of the main character in the meeting.

5. A medium close up of another major character.

6. A close up of what is being shown on the projector screen.

Is this enough shots for a scene that will last about maybe 3-5 minutes, or do I need more coverage than this to be safe?
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Old September 24th, 2019, 07:24 PM   #117
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

Thar’s an interesting point...

*I* would say maybe yes, MAYBE add a few CUs of other people’s faces or hands just to cover yourself for potential problems later. That’s just me.

HOWEVER, I have noticed many movies and shows cover the living crap our of their scenes. Multiple angles of wides, CUs, OTS’s, etc. I dont know if this is just to not have to keep repeating the same three shots in a five minute scene or to give them more flexibility (cutting entire lines, changing things around from how scripted etc.) in the edit, or what.

I remember a scene in the Sopranos where it was just Tony and his Therapist in her office for a few minutes and it seemed like there were 10 setups or something...multiple angles of wides, Clean mediums, OTS’s, CUs, profiles in several focal lengths, maybe a few shots with a slow side to side dolly.
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Old September 24th, 2019, 09:35 PM   #118
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

I see that a lot more often now, shots of hands. But why... I worked for another director a while ago, who would get shots of the hands doing so many things, and I felt that it was unnecessary. Even if it's just for coverage, a lot of these hand shots would be emotionally awkward to cut to I felt. But even though you see it more now, if you watch older movies, like High and Low even for example.

There are no handshots in those older movies. Unless maybe a hand was going for a gun or something really important, but otherwise no handshots, compared to modern movies.

So were older filmmakers able to do a better job of not needing so much coverage compared to modern ones, or what?
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Old September 24th, 2019, 10:24 PM   #119
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

I don't know. Hands were just a suggestion. I retract it. I just meant a few extra CUs of...something. Something relevant to your particular story. Some CUs that you don't have to spend a lot of time setting up for, that you could get quickly and not blow your day on.
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Old September 25th, 2019, 12:37 AM   #120
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Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

If you're talking about a 3 to 5 minute scene, I would look at something like "12 Angry Men".

Also, is this scene just exposition or is there something dramatic doing to happen? For a scene that long you need to be something that going on between the characters, a power play for example. If it's a just a talk by the inspector I would start throwing out anything that's not important otherwise the audience will be shuffling in their seats by the end, if not changed channels.


Have a look at "Spiral" for its briefing scenes. It's a French cop series.

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