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Old December 28th, 2019, 04:36 PM   #46
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re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Elder View Post
which is why I want to ask about such details, if the books do not address all the hidden catches either.
The difficulty is that you don't seem to be able to take on board the information you're being given.Your questions just keep repeating themselves and you end up going around in circles.

You need to read quite a few books in order to get an overall pattern. There are probably books to cover nearly every job on a feature film set.
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Old December 28th, 2019, 04:49 PM   #47
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re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

Sounds like you’re trying to over plan to avoid mistakes you made in the past. Storyboarding them out isn’t the answer. When you do free movies and don’t have the funds, staff or the experience, cut corners and use unorthodox methods you’re going to get unprofessional results. Maybe all you need is a short reminder list you bring with you on set, much like a speaker doesn’t read his speech word for word he has an outline that he glances at. Film making is collaborative effort between a team of people.
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Old December 28th, 2019, 05:23 PM   #48
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re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

Ok thanks. are you saying cutting corners, isn't the answer then and that can yield bad results?
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Old December 28th, 2019, 05:39 PM   #49
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re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

You seem surprised that this could cause you problems?
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Old December 28th, 2019, 06:10 PM   #50
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re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

Well it's just as far as unorthodox methods go, I was told before I need to think outside the box more. Doesn't thinking outside the box, mean having to do unorthodox things?
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Old December 29th, 2019, 02:51 AM   #51
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re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

I suspect that this refers to the content, not copy and pasting from other films, but having your own vision or voice and putting that into your films.

Nor does it apply to being able to apply the 180 degree rule and knowing how or when to break it for dramatic purpose. This isn't thinking "out of the box" it's still in the area of basic grammar.

If you try the unorthodox, you must always question if it's working, if it's not for other people, you must be prepared to make changes at the editing stage and try to understand why it's not working. Often you need to work it out from first principles, it can just come down to elements not having been set up properly in the script, so that pay off don't work.

Watch "Back to the Future" for the set ups being prepared in the early scenes and then being paid off through out the film. If you didn't have them, the film wouldn't make much sense.The secret is hiding them, so that the audience don't know they're set ups.
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Old December 29th, 2019, 02:58 AM   #52
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re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

Oh okay, well I thought about the idea of not blocking in the storyboards and tried it out. However, if you do not do any blocking in them, then how do you know where the actors are suppose to be in the storyboard?

Are storyboards just suppose to indicate the general type of shot angle, and that's it?
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Old December 29th, 2019, 03:08 AM   #53
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re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

"Are storyboards just suppose to indicate the general type of shot angle, and that's it? "

Thar's the purpose, so that others can visualize what the shots look like. It's just part of planning a scene, You'll see where the actor are at one point in the scene, but it won't reveal all the complex dance moves that they may be doing in that shot.
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Old December 29th, 2019, 03:24 AM   #54
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re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

Oh okay thanks, as long as the continuity isn't so drastic such as moving over to a window or something, which may cause the other shots to have to changed. But maybe that is okay too. I can use the storyboards like that then, to just give an idea, rather than all the blocking, as long as continuity can still match later.
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Old December 29th, 2019, 04:20 AM   #55
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re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

You still sem to be stuck at the basics, rather than progressing. Ideally you should plan for a window shot, since there may be lighting issues for the DP,

However, that's not to say that if the actors come up with an emotionally powerful moment at the window that's way better than the one you planned for, it would be a foolish director who wouldn't have a conversation with the DP about the possibility of using the window. You always need to keep an eye out for improving a scene.

There can be a difference between the scene as blocked out in your mind and the reality on the day with the actors.
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Old December 29th, 2019, 04:48 AM   #56
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re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

When you watch the youtube continuity error clips, it's things like people vanishing, then reappearing, or props moving around. The actor movement stuff should be so obvious that everyone in the scene would say - hang on, shouldn't I be here? Actors are very good at remembering things that impact on their performance and they remember nothing about trivia on set. An extra in the background would not be noticed, but the people in the scene interacting certainly would set themselves up in perfect positions for a retake, even if the next day. They might forget the object was in their left hand, not the right - that kind of error, but they'll know if they were not standing somewhere. Story boards are not designed for that kind of info.

You are trying to process every bit of information into slots or rules. If THIS happens, then do THIS and it doesn't work.

You really need to get a grip on this or progression is impossible. I know you feel the need to plan, but it's clearly becoming a serious barrier to your productiveness, and frankly - we're not making a dent on your understanding. It's so frustrating - we want you to get it, but you say the most peculiar things, or create totally different meanings. Maybe you are trying to be too advanced for your existing capabilities, because you're not learning - that is so clear.
Quote:
Doesn't thinking outside the box, mean having to do unorthodox things?
What do you mean by unorthodox? I suspect to us, it does indeed mean doing unorthodox things, as in unplanned, uncertain of success, or just simply crazy things - but we would do them with the underpinning knowledge that while maybe new and perhaps a bit radical, it could actually work. I've done unorthodox things continually for weeks on my present job, and most, not all have been successful - despite raised eyebrows from some others, but when the thing works, everyone smiles, and mentally adds it to their arsenal of problem solving for future use. It means taking a risk, carrying the can if it goes badly wrong, and convincing people it's worth a try.

You're presumably extremely uncomfortable about doing unplanned, unforeseen things - and perhaps don't have enough experience yet to turn a 50/50 into a 75/25 on the likely success front, but at some point you have to start taking chances and create your own new rules. You then need to be equally willing to scrap the rule when next time it doesn't work.

Now could also perhaps be the time to have a good think about any career plans in this industry. Being very honest Ryan, I'm forming the opinion that no matter how hard you try to process information, it's failing.

You can't find a niche where your talents work naturally. Everything is a constant struggle for comprehension. In the education world, the word 'understanding' is often a word that's kind of banned, because testing it is so hard and unreliable. You have the vocabulary, you have piles of information but I get the impression it's just unprocessed - hence your usual confusion and misinterpretation of everyones input. How many times does someone say something and your response is "so what you are saying ..." and it isn't!

There's a very small number of regular correspondents in your topics - have you noticed? Many people have given up, and skip reading them now it seems because there is never any progress.
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Old December 29th, 2019, 05:10 AM   #57
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re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

Oh sorry, I don't mean to come up with different meanings to it. It's just when things are explained to me, there are catches in it that do not add up, and I feel like I need to ask about those catches then, that's all.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be frustrating, I just want to do better and understand it all. Thanks for being so patient and explaining things, everyone!

I can try not to plan out blocking ahead of time, it just feels risky and disorganized to me, where something can go wrong if not addressed in advance. That's all. Just seems more risky...
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Old December 29th, 2019, 05:24 AM   #58
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re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

Planning is good when based on solid information. Planning for things that WILL, not might, change is pointless, wastes your time and ties your hands. There will always be the risk you won't change for the unknown, but perhaps better, in favour of your carefully planned and possibly less good product. Plan the fight, or fight the plan?
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Old December 29th, 2019, 05:45 AM   #59
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re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

No one is saying not to block ahead of time and be prepared with a plan, just that you should also be open to what happens with the actors on the set or during rehearsals. This becomes more important on low budget films, where you don't have the resources or pool of talent to pin everything down, so you need to make changes on the fly.

Again, a book like "The Director's Journey" by Mark W Travis may assist. I gather it's hard to get, but you may get used copies on Amazon. It can go into more detail than forum messages, but it will allow you too work things out for yourself.

Since you have problems with actors, "Directing Actors" by Judith Weston could be worth checking out.
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Old December 29th, 2019, 09:12 AM   #60
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re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

It’s odd that you didn’t know how to do such a fundamental thing such as proper blocking, considering being a filmmaker is your sole purpose in life and the number of years you’ve been at it. I don’t know if this comes from a lack of understanding or bad practices you’ve grown accustomed to making amateur films. It’s great you have so much drive to pursue your dreams it’s just concerning you need a 24/7 support team trying to fight a seemingly endless struggle helping you with every aspect of cinema.

Planning is useful but it shouldn’t be used as a means to avoid interactions on set, making adjustments and carrying out the normal duties of a director.
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