Z1 + super 16 together at DVinfo.net

Marco van Belle · December 11th, 2006, 03:53 AM

Hi all,

I've just finished shooting my first Super 16mm short (shot at 25fps).

Unfortunately, due to time, budget and stock constraints (£2,000 + 3 days for a 10 minute short!) I had to drop some shots - namely the title sequence. This sequence was going to be nothing more than a series of close ups of someone's hand as they write on a notepad.

I can't get the 16mm kit again, but I can get a Z1 and an SG Pro 35 mm converter. If I shoot in HDV, and deliberately treat the Z1 footage to look grainy / old / almost 8mm, do you thing I could use it for the title sequence and then add it to the Super 16 film?

Exhibition format for festivals is going to be Digibeta (we are editing from digibeta master in FCP and outputting to DBeta).

Any advice on this much appreciated - I know I could shoot super 8 easily, but we have exhausted all the favours we have re: telecine discounts etc, and we really can't shoot any more film unless we get more funding - we're tied into a formal funding scheme with an English film board.

Many thanks,
Marco

***EDIT - I should add that I'm in the UK so would be shooting 50i***

Chris Barcellos · December 11th, 2006, 10:52 AM

One way to add grain is to shoot with gain. I've just start with a self built adapter and my FX1. I've tested in some pretty low light situation where gain was a necessity, and grain seems to be pronounce at 12db. Might be something you want to experiment with...

Marco van Belle · December 11th, 2006, 11:13 AM

Thanks for that - it's something I was aware of though. But you have highlighted that fact that I've left out the key question of my post! What I should have stressed is that I'm concerned whether the Z1 HDV footage will stand up to festival exhibition on a big screen, or whether when compared with the S16mm (even from DigiBETA) it will look c**p.

Dylan Pank · December 21st, 2006, 05:37 AM

It won't look crap, but it might look noticable different in quality from the 16mm footage. If it's a discrete sequence (i.e. not intercut with super16 footage) it probably doesn't matter too much.

You might want to consider under-exposing by a stop, and biasing the white balance in the Z1 towards the blue side a little, and then colour correcting in post.

Marco van Belle · December 21st, 2006, 01:56 PM

That's what I thought Dylan - but limited S16 experience means I need to hear it from other people. So thanks for posting - it's much appreciated.

The Z1 / SGPro combo footage would be for a 25 second title sequence which would fade to black before fading up to the first scene of S16.

Also, I intend to make the title shots deliberatly stylised and somewhat 'degraded' - almost to have an 8mm (but 16:9) look to them.

So hopefully that, plus the fact that the two will never be intercut, will let me get away with it.

Chris Leong · May 15th, 2007, 03:27 PM

Marco

Just finished DPing and editing a short film with exactly the setup you mention - front section plus titles shot on tape, fade out, back up to S16mm telecine.

The giveaway is the digital titling itself.

I used MB Editors (FCP) after I was done to put a "film look" on the entire head portion, which seemed to take a little of the video curse off it.

The Z1u footage looked okay under the titles (there was a fair amount of Motion compositing in there too), but after the titles themselves lost their digitality, the entire thing looked better.

December 11th, 2006, 03:53 AM	#1
Marco van Belle Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sheffield, UK Posts: 58	Z1 + super 16 together Hi all, I've just finished shooting my first Super 16mm short (shot at 25fps). Unfortunately, due to time, budget and stock constraints (£2,000 + 3 days for a 10 minute short!) I had to drop some shots - namely the title sequence. This sequence was going to be nothing more than a series of close ups of someone's hand as they write on a notepad. I can't get the 16mm kit again, but I can get a Z1 and an SG Pro 35 mm converter. If I shoot in HDV, and deliberately treat the Z1 footage to look grainy / old / almost 8mm, do you thing I could use it for the title sequence and then add it to the Super 16 film? Exhibition format for festivals is going to be Digibeta (we are editing from digibeta master in FCP and outputting to DBeta). Any advice on this much appreciated - I know I could shoot super 8 easily, but we have exhausted all the favours we have re: telecine discounts etc, and we really can't shoot any more film unless we get more funding - we're tied into a formal funding scheme with an English film board. Many thanks, Marco *EDIT - I should add that I'm in the UK so would be shooting 50i* __________________ If you're gonna do it...be a total control freak and do it 150% right. Then, if you screw up, it's still gonna rock. Last edited by Marco van Belle; December 11th, 2006 at 06:01 AM.

December 11th, 2006, 10:52 AM	#2
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	One way to add grain is to shoot with gain. I've just start with a self built adapter and my FX1. I've tested in some pretty low light situation where gain was a necessity, and grain seems to be pronounce at 12db. Might be something you want to experiment with... __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

December 11th, 2006, 11:13 AM	#3
Marco van Belle Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sheffield, UK Posts: 58	Thanks for that Thanks for that - it's something I was aware of though. But you have highlighted that fact that I've left out the key question of my post! What I should have stressed is that I'm concerned whether the Z1 HDV footage will stand up to festival exhibition on a big screen, or whether when compared with the S16mm (even from DigiBETA) it will look c**p. __________________ If you're gonna do it...be a total control freak and do it 150% right. Then, if you screw up, it's still gonna rock.

December 21st, 2006, 01:56 PM	#5
Marco van Belle Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sheffield, UK Posts: 58	Thanks Dylan That's what I thought Dylan - but limited S16 experience means I need to hear it from other people. So thanks for posting - it's much appreciated. The Z1 / SGPro combo footage would be for a 25 second title sequence which would fade to black before fading up to the first scene of S16. Also, I intend to make the title shots deliberatly stylised and somewhat 'degraded' - almost to have an 8mm (but 16:9) look to them. So hopefully that, plus the fact that the two will never be intercut, will let me get away with it. __________________ If you're gonna do it...be a total control freak and do it 150% right. Then, if you screw up, it's still gonna rock.

December 21st, 2006, 05:37 AM	#4
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	It won't look crap, but it might look noticable different in quality from the 16mm footage. If it's a discrete sequence (i.e. not intercut with super16 footage) it probably doesn't matter too much. You might want to consider under-exposing by a stop, and biasing the white balance in the Z1 towards the blue side a little, and then colour correcting in post.

May 15th, 2007, 03:27 PM	#6
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	Marco Just finished DPing and editing a short film with exactly the setup you mention - front section plus titles shot on tape, fade out, back up to S16mm telecine. The giveaway is the digital titling itself. I used MB Editors (FCP) after I was done to put a "film look" on the entire head portion, which seemed to take a little of the video curse off it. The Z1u footage looked okay under the titles (there was a fair amount of Motion compositing in there too), but after the titles themselves lost their digitality, the entire thing looked better.