A couple movie questions at DVinfo.net

Kirk Messner · March 13th, 2003, 04:52 PM

Are any night time movie scenes actually shot in daylight or with lighting, then made to look like night in editing? I know they have megabuck cameras, but my video is always grainy in low light shots.

Movie sound - it's annoying lately having to turn the volume up and down while watching a movie. There are always some dialog scenes I can't hear without cranking it up, then it's too loud for the rest of the movie.

Just wondering....

Kirk

Robert Knecht Schmidt · March 13th, 2003, 05:10 PM

"Are any night time movie scenes actually shot in daylight or with lighting, then made to look like night in editing? I know they have megabuck cameras, but my video is always grainy in low light shots."

Film, TV, and commercial shoots tend to have big grip trucks full of big lights capable of may tens (sometimes hundreds) of kilowatts of power output. Take a good look at many supposedly "night" shoots and you'll notice there are actually a lot of light sources. Some are less subtlely disguised than others. During the shooting of American Graffiti the crew paid local shopkeepers to keep their storefront lights on at night and replaced the lamps in streetlight fixtures for the exterior sequences. Inside the cars, it's a different story, with actors having to share space with hot lighting equipment.

Blue, violet, and dark red colored gels are often used to tame and darken bright light for night shoots. Light shining from an unmotivated origin can still look convincing if it seems like moonlight. Another effect that is almost irrestible to cinemtographers is wet pavement. Its albedo shimmers light back at subjects rather than just soaking it up, while also making for some interesting reflection effects. This is why a hydrant wrench is an essential tool in any grip truck toolbox!

The most difficult part about night shooting is illuminating distant swaths of background. On one shoot I was on, the crew employed a special (and expensive!) fixture consisting of a very bright lamp inside a giant white helium-filled balloon. (The whole rig comes in a trailer towed behind a truck.) As bright as a full moon, the balloon fixture was able to light the ground of a whole street block without laboriously rigging lights mounted to trees, lampposts, etc.

Day for night processing is rarer nowadays but still used. It can involve in-camera and post filters. Usually much more successful in black-and-white than color. You might try doing a search on the DVInfo.net forums for tips on day for night shoots.

I bet Charles Papert might have a lot to say about the special considerations of night shooting and day for night.

"Movie sound - it's annoying lately having to turn the volume up and down while watching a movie. There are always some dialog scenes I can't hear without cranking it up, then it's too loud for the rest of the movie."

For this, you can blame the mixer, or in some cases, the director. Michael Bay in particular enjoys drowning out his dialogue with sounds effects and orchestration. My dad has learned the trick of just keeping the volume down and the subtitles on.

Kirk Messner · March 13th, 2003, 05:24 PM

Thanks Robert ! Very interesting information. I see I have alot to learn :)

John Locke · March 13th, 2003, 06:12 PM

If you can get your hands on a copy, the October 2002 edition of DV magazine has a "how to" article about lighting for night.

Mark Austin · March 13th, 2003, 06:28 PM

Night shooting.. I have a short that is going to be about 1/3 dark / night shots. I have to shoot it mostly run & gun due to the nature of the topic. I also need to be able to shoot some interior jail scenes, but can't take more than a handful of gear into the slammer.

Any ideas on a down & dirty method? Blue filters? etc...

Thanks,
Mark

Charles Papert · March 13th, 2003, 09:56 PM

Robert's words speak volumes (although I haven't seen too many hydrants cracked open--around these here parts they usually send a water truck down the street for wetdowns!)

As he described, a wide, strong backlight will help create a classic night look. If you are shooting towards a building, placing your light on the roof or in a high window straight ahead from camera. Using a theatrical blue is a typical choice, but you can elect to use an orange gel that simulates the sodium vapor streetlight look also. A china ball for front fill can be pretty; it will look more natural if the faces are slightly underexposed (if you use zebras or a waveform monitor, peg the faces at 50 IRE or under). And as Robert said, having splashes of light in the background will look nicer and be more practical than lighting the world up.

You won't need to use blue filters as a matter of course, shooting on the tungsten (incandescent) setting without color filtration is standard. And it's pretty rare these days to see day-for-night work in a film, it has a bit of a dated look (although "Jaws" is still amazing for the day-for-night footage out at sea).

March 13th, 2003, 04:52 PM	#1
Kirk Messner Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Fowlerville, MI Posts: 51	A couple movie questions Are any night time movie scenes actually shot in daylight or with lighting, then made to look like night in editing? I know they have megabuck cameras, but my video is always grainy in low light shots. Movie sound - it's annoying lately having to turn the volume up and down while watching a movie. There are always some dialog scenes I can't hear without cranking it up, then it's too loud for the rest of the movie. Just wondering.... Kirk

March 13th, 2003, 05:10 PM	#2
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	"Are any night time movie scenes actually shot in daylight or with lighting, then made to look like night in editing? I know they have megabuck cameras, but my video is always grainy in low light shots." Film, TV, and commercial shoots tend to have big grip trucks full of big lights capable of may tens (sometimes hundreds) of kilowatts of power output. Take a good look at many supposedly "night" shoots and you'll notice there are actually a lot of light sources. Some are less subtlely disguised than others. During the shooting of American Graffiti the crew paid local shopkeepers to keep their storefront lights on at night and replaced the lamps in streetlight fixtures for the exterior sequences. Inside the cars, it's a different story, with actors having to share space with hot lighting equipment. Blue, violet, and dark red colored gels are often used to tame and darken bright light for night shoots. Light shining from an unmotivated origin can still look convincing if it seems like moonlight. Another effect that is almost irrestible to cinemtographers is wet pavement. Its albedo shimmers light back at subjects rather than just soaking it up, while also making for some interesting reflection effects. This is why a hydrant wrench is an essential tool in any grip truck toolbox! The most difficult part about night shooting is illuminating distant swaths of background. On one shoot I was on, the crew employed a special (and expensive!) fixture consisting of a very bright lamp inside a giant white helium-filled balloon. (The whole rig comes in a trailer towed behind a truck.) As bright as a full moon, the balloon fixture was able to light the ground of a whole street block without laboriously rigging lights mounted to trees, lampposts, etc. Day for night processing is rarer nowadays but still used. It can involve in-camera and post filters. Usually much more successful in black-and-white than color. You might try doing a search on the DVInfo.net forums for tips on day for night shoots. I bet Charles Papert might have a lot to say about the special considerations of night shooting and day for night. "Movie sound - it's annoying lately having to turn the volume up and down while watching a movie. There are always some dialog scenes I can't hear without cranking it up, then it's too loud for the rest of the movie." For this, you can blame the mixer, or in some cases, the director. Michael Bay in particular enjoys drowning out his dialogue with sounds effects and orchestration. My dad has learned the trick of just keeping the volume down and the subtitles on. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

March 13th, 2003, 06:12 PM	#4
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	If you can get your hands on a copy, the October 2002 edition of DV magazine has a "how to" article about lighting for night. __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

March 13th, 2003, 06:28 PM	#5
Mark Austin Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 188	Night shooting.. I have a short that is going to be about 1/3 dark / night shots. I have to shoot it mostly run & gun due to the nature of the topic. I also need to be able to shoot some interior jail scenes, but can't take more than a handful of gear into the slammer. Any ideas on a down & dirty method? Blue filters? etc... Thanks, Mark __________________ I'm humbled by the greatness that surrounds me.

March 13th, 2003, 09:56 PM	#6
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Robert's words speak volumes (although I haven't seen too many hydrants cracked open--around these here parts they usually send a water truck down the street for wetdowns!) As he described, a wide, strong backlight will help create a classic night look. If you are shooting towards a building, placing your light on the roof or in a high window straight ahead from camera. Using a theatrical blue is a typical choice, but you can elect to use an orange gel that simulates the sodium vapor streetlight look also. A china ball for front fill can be pretty; it will look more natural if the faces are slightly underexposed (if you use zebras or a waveform monitor, peg the faces at 50 IRE or under). And as Robert said, having splashes of light in the background will look nicer and be more practical than lighting the world up. You won't need to use blue filters as a matter of course, shooting on the tungsten (incandescent) setting without color filtration is standard. And it's pretty rare these days to see day-for-night work in a film, it has a bit of a dated look (although "Jaws" is still amazing for the day-for-night footage out at sea). __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

March 13th, 2003, 05:24 PM	#3
Kirk Messner Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Fowlerville, MI Posts: 51	Thanks Robert ! Very interesting information. I see I have alot to learn :)