Sachtler 7+7

[Steve Phillipps]

Just answering you point "All of the heads you mention Steve fall into the "serious masochist" category for medium size HD camcorders", and the debate did broaden to how good Vintens were vs the rest too. No harm in a good, broad discussion, eh!

Steve

[Peter Erfurt]

I'm a sucker for good discussions, so DO keep it up.

To get real - Chris :-) - By accident I stumbled upon a used Vinten Vision 100 with carbon fibre legs and bought it (look here: Image Zoom)

Priced at GBP 1500 I couldn't resist!

Now hopefully I won't develop a hernia dragging the beast around - but maybe I can get one of those "Invalid" signs for the car and then just drive up to the action - hell, what do I need a tripod for, then :-)

Anyway - thanks for all your great inputs - and DO let the discussion flow about the pros and cons - we are a bunch that learns all the time from you guys....

[Chris Soucy]

about that hernia, that's one solid unit.

Don't know if you're going to get the counterbalance to kick in tho', from this graph on the Vinten site it's gonna be a close squeak.

http://www.vinten.com/system/files/f...3466_TD_EN.pdf

Think you might need to add some ballast "up top" to increase the COG and weight, dependent on you rig configuration.

Enjoy!


CS

[Pete Haynes]

I recently found out i have a panorama 7 + 7 head that i was told is now obsolete, I was just curious if anyone knew the best way to go about selling it or maybe what i should even ask for it?? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

[Brian Drysdale]

If the tripod is still working smoothly it isn't obsolete, cameras become obsolete, usually tripods don't. The only problem could be if the spring counterbalance is too strong for your camera.

I've still got a Ronford F4, which is great with the small cameras - people use them to shoot feature films using HDV cameras. Even using carbon fibre legs it's not the lightest, but it's very quick to set up - the legs slide straight to the floor.

[Sabyasachi Patra]

Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps

I've never liked Vintens, and the 3 seems like a fairly low echelon head to me, in the Manfrotto league.
The Panorama 7+7 was made when Sachtler made really good heads, they've gone right downhill in my estimation now! The 7+7 was a big favourite with a lot of wildlife camermen, due to its light weight and stability. Hugh Miles for example used one and I gather still does, with an Arriflex and 600mm lens, as did many of the other wildlife legends when filming for the likes of Life On Earth.
I put a Canon 150-600 on a Varicam on the Panorama that I had briefly and it held it well, though as with all 100mm bowl heads it still had a bit of wobble to it, this is why I don't use them any more, it seems with HD you have to be that bit more critical with wobble as it shows up more with the "dead" image of a video camera and being viewed on today's larger screens. The trend in wildlife at least is for 150mm bowl heads, between 6.5kg (Ronford 2004) and 10kg (Ronford Atlas 30 and O'Connor 2060 that I have).
For ENG work though I'd have thought the 7+7 would be fine though.
Steve

Steve,
Can you please elaborate on your comment about 100mm bowl heads?

The Oconnor 1030 HD is 100mm bowl. Does that mean it will also wobble on a 100mm bowl tripod?

Cheers,
Sabyasachi

[Zach Love]

I can't speak for Steve, or for how much more stable 150mm bowls are than 100mm bowls.

But I think for the vast majority of users, a 100mm bowl is going to be more than sturdy enough. If it wasn't, you wouldn't see 100mm as the standard for ENG / EFP cameras. If you're using something like a HVX or EX1, a 75mm bowl is probably going to be enough for you.

If more people needed 150mm bowls, there would be more 150mm heads / tripods out there.

I think the big thing is the type of footage your shooting. If you're using really long telephoto lenses to get a ECU of a bird hatching out of its egg from 300yds away, then you want something REALLY steady. To get a shot that steady, you need a larger tripod.

Now if you're getting a CU of a person talking at a podium 30yds away, then you don't need something massive & 100mm or 75mm tripod will probably be all that you need.

[Steve Phillipps]

Pretty much spot on Zach. I've just got around to writing up some tripod reviews/notes at my website www.stevephillipps.com, and I state there that most of my very picky comments apply just to long lens wildlife type situations, as you say for most people a 100mm bowl will be more than adequate.

Sabyasachi, the O'Connor 1030 can be used with a 100mm or 150mm bowl (I use the 150mm on mine), but it's still a smallish head and it does have the usual slight bounciness of all heads of that size. It's obviously something to do with the overall bulk, but you just get a lot more stability with the bigger heads (ie anything over about 6kg). Favourites in wildlife circles include the Ronford Baker 2004, Sachtler Video 25, and these days there is a bit of a trend towards the even larger O'Connor 2060 and Ronford Atlas 30.
Steve

[Sabyasachi Patra]

Zach and Steve,
Thanks for your responses. Its very helpful.

At the moment I am filming wildlife with a DSLR Canon 1D Mark IV + Canon EF 400mm f2.8 L IS USM lens. In the future I will be diving deeper into filming with heavier cameras. Hence, am carefully evaluating the fluid heads.

The Oconnor heads have counterbalance from 0 upwards. So I have the flexibility to use a DSLR + wide angle combo as well as with heavier lenses. Though the Oconnor 1030 is heavier and expensive than other fluid heads, I have decided to buy it. I have to figure out how to get it from US, as buying here in India would be very costly. The Oconnor 2065 is more than 10kgs with 150mm bowl. Apart from the price, lugging a much heavier tripod would be another challenge. The combination (2065 + a heavy duty aluminium tripod) will weigh more than 20kgs and will all but rule out domestic flights for me (at least at this stage of my film making level). So the Oconnor 2065 would be a bit more than I can digest. :D Also, I am not sure how you guys lug around such heavy equipment trekking within the forest.

Which tripod legs you prefer?

Cheers,
Sabyasachi

[Zach Love]

Another thing to consider is that you can make many tripods heavier in the field. Some have a hook at the spreader, or you could throw some sand bags over the feet.

If you're hiking around, you could get some empty sand bags & just fill it with items you find around you. (Rocks, dirt, etc).

But even with the best tripod a lot of getting a steady shot is knowing how to use the tool. Knowing how to touch, when to let go, how to move & how to breathe... these are things that can really only be learned by doing & are the difference between a steady shot & a shaky one.

Though while a 400mm is a nice zoom lens on a 1D, it isn't a crazy insane telephoto. Most higher end 2/3" lenses will get the same FOV on the long end as your lens. You camera is lighter than a 2/3" shoulder mount camera which helps a little & hurts a little (heavier items take more energy to move, but lighter cameras shake less on the same tripod), so be mindful, but don't be too worried about it.

I would even suggest looking into some Gitzo legs (which is a different direction that what you're looking at, but still another option). They're very versatile & their carbon fiber legs are very light. The legs move independent of each other, so you can arrange them at different angles to set up on nearly any surface.

[Steve Phillipps]

Agree with all that again Zach, good advice. I used to use Gitzo legs and I agree they're excellent.
Sabyasachi, I currently use most carbon fibre legs; Sachtler 150ML which are single stage HD carbon. I also use an old Oskar Heiler aluminium short set which are amazing, and sometimes Sachtler HD carbon 2 stage legs but they're not as stable as the single stage.
Steve

[Sabyasachi Patra]

Steve,
I have checked the Sachtler tripods. The Sachtler DA-150M medium aluminium 1 stage legs support 110 lbs. Sachtler DA-150M Medium Aluminum Tripod Legs 6157 - B&H Photo
I was looking for a tripod that has a minimum height and hence the choice. Any idea how good this one would be with the 1030HD 150mm bowl?

Zach thanks for your comments. I currently use a Gitzo GT 3530 plus wimberly V2 head which I was using for stills. Am not too happy using it for filming. 400mm f2.8 L IS US Plus 2xII TC with multiplier factor of 1.3 of the 1D Mark IV camera gives a focal length of 1040 mm. I agree that technique contributes to the stability of the image/film. I will move to a Canon interchangeable lens video cam whenever it is launched. So weight wise, it wont be much bigger in the near future.

Cheers,
Sabyasachi

[Brian Drysdale]

Which bowl size you use tends to be a trade off of weight, stability and other factors. For example you rarely see 100mm bowls on dramas, but they're pretty much the standard on 2/3 ENG.

I've got an old Ronford F4 with Sachtler 150mm carbon fibre which I use with the 1/3" cameras and it's great because you can set up so quickly compared to 75mm tripods. I mightn't be so keen if I've got to hike miles with it all the time, although I've done so - it's a matter of balance.

For the larger cameras I've got a Sachtler Horizon (film version of the Video 25, which covers a good range of cameras.

[Steve Phillipps]

Originally Posted by Sabyasachi Patra

Any idea how good this one would be with the 1030HD 150mm bowl?

It'd be great, but they don't go down that low. That's what 2 stage legs are for. I've got a Sachtler HD carbon set that I've had cut down so they go real low but still up to head height.
Steve

[Sabyasachi Patra]

Steve, Zach, Brian,
Thanks for the comments.
Now I have to figure out how to procure the 1030 HD with 150mm bowl as B&H site only has a 1030HD with 100mm bowl. There is no direct sale from the Oconnor site.

Sabyasachi