Camera choice for telephoto

Brendan Marnell · May 28th, 2009, 12:34 AM

Thank you, Dale.

Rob Evans · May 28th, 2009, 02:46 AM

Gentlemen, thanks for your advice on this. Mainly on budget, I have decided to go for a XLH1 and I'm going to pick one up this weekend. Very kindly the guy I am buying it from (a wildlife filmmaker) is also going to spare an hour or two to take me through the basics - which is great! Just need to prepare my shopping list for the lenses, there's plenty of good threads on here with lots of information.
There's a spot nearby where up to 5 Hobbies are feeding on Mayflies, and you can get really close to them - I'll be trying it out next week!

Cheers,

Rob

oh, and re: casio exilim, has anyone focused two side by side onto a 35mm adapter image plane for a 960 x 720 @ 210 fps image ??? or is that just a totally stupid idea? ;-)

Ron Chant · May 28th, 2009, 07:05 AM

Rob
Good to hear you’ve getting the cannon you will now be able to reach those parts that other cams can’t,
I use old manual Nikon Lens on my XL. Although I’m thinking of going over to the JVC HM700 and still use my Nikons,

Filming the Hobbies,
Hobbies are like Ferrari in the sky, I have seen them at Dinton Pastures
Chasing the Damson and Dragon-flies.

Per Johan Naesje · May 28th, 2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Evans

oh, and re: casio exilim, has anyone focused two side by side onto a 35mm adapter image plane for a 960 x 720 @ 210 fps image ??? or is that just a totally stupid idea? ;-)

Rob, I´ve done some exilim f1 high speed testing (just for fun). At 300 fps you got 512x384 18mbs. Hopefully next generation camera will support higher bitrate and res. Watch attached example of a hungry gull!

Brendan Marnell · May 28th, 2009, 11:03 AM

I just can't let a sweet sharp slo-mo like that pass without breaking my butt trying to find out how you did that, Per, and with what?? Please tell all. I know it's a pain for you Per, but I have so much opportunity to shoot gull & gannet footage that I must find out what I could video with images like this ....

Rob Evans · May 28th, 2009, 01:30 PM

Haha :) Those images remind me of the time I was fishing on the thames as a kid, deadbaiting for Pike. My friend did a long cast , and all of sudden started shouting that he had hooked something really big. I looked at his fishing rod, and noticed something odd - the line was pointing up, not down into the river. Sure enough, a cheeky gull had snatched it mid air and was trying to fly off with it. Then another gull had a go, then a third got involved. They gave up after about a minute!!!

Went to see the Hobbies this evening, and ony got two fleeting glimpses. Still was nice to check the site out and get a good idea what other species are about - plenty of camera targets!!!!

Brendan Marnell · May 28th, 2009, 02:10 PM

Per, where are you?

I'll phone you if necessary. Please tell me the camcorder, main settings, and the editing programme you used to produce "gull-2.mov"

Rob Evans · May 28th, 2009, 02:30 PM

Brendan, they are consumer compact cams that offer this, but the resolution gets lower the faster the capture.

Casio Exilim High Speed: Digital Cameras

Ruth Happel has used this cam for a couple of UWOL challenges, to great effect !!!

http://www.uwolchallenge.com/challen...gtakeswing.mov

Per Johan Naesje · May 28th, 2009, 02:49 PM

Yupp, Rob nailed it! That's the camera the EX-F1

To be true, it's somehow amazing to view footage shot with it. But it's somehow quite difficult to operate for high speed recording IMHO!
It require LOTS of light, you have to lock the exposure and focus, before you start shooting. And for wildlife you only got 12x zoom. At the 12x it require even more light, so I mostly do recording at the wider end, which gives me some depth of field to work with too!

Another big problem is that it's only recording in 30p, which mean for us in PAL-land it's not easy to mix with footage shot at 25p/50i. This is the same problem as discussed about the 5D MK II.
Indoor shooting is not possible because of the problem with flickering light due to our power cycle is 50Hz.

I mostly bought it because of curiosity of how this technique works.

Per Johan Naesje · May 28th, 2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan Marnell

Please tell me the camcorder, main settings, and the editing programme you used to produce "gull-2.mov"

You already got what camera used in the thread above.
The camera generates a QT-file H.264/AVC recorded to a SDHC flash card, I use a 8GB card which gives me sufficient recording length. Recorded file size of 1 minute (300 fps) are 135MB. The file can be imported and edited instantly in FCP on the MAC. I'm sure NLE's on PC also can handle the QT-file, but I can not recommend any. Maybe someone else can?

EDIT: Forgot to mention that there's more information in this thread about the camera:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/photo-hd-...mpressive.html

Brendan Marnell · May 28th, 2009, 04:14 PM

Thank you, Per, very much.

Would you say that 5D Mk II would enable you to shoot video and slo-mo it in post like you did with Casio EX- F1 ?

Per Johan Naesje · May 29th, 2009, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan Marnell

Would you say that 5D Mk II would enable you to shoot video and slo-mo it in post like you did with Casio EX- F1 ?

No you can't, because the EX-F1 shoot with a speed of 300 frames per second (even 600 or 1200 frames is possible but in a smaller format), while the 5D MKII only do 30 frames per second.
In fact, you don't slow mo the footage taken by the EX-F1 in post (when you do high speed recording). It's already slowed down in the camera.

Brendan Marnell · May 29th, 2009, 12:53 AM

Thank you again Per.

Now I'm wondering why a small cam like Casio EX-F1 can manage 300 fps and more expensive video cams cannot do better than 30fps ... or is there a HD cam with x16 < x20 zoom that includes 300fps?

Kin Lau · May 29th, 2009, 11:55 AM

I noticed that a fair number of Casio digicams now have HD 720p and video modes of 480 x 360 - 210 fps ¦ 224 x 168 - 420 fps ¦ 224 x 64 - 1000 fps.

The new Sanyo VPC-FH1 comes _very_ close to what you want.

Video modes are MPEG-4 - 1920 x 1080 - 60 fps ¦ MPEG-4 - 1920 x 1080 - 30 fps ¦ MPEG-4 - 1280 x 720 - 30 fps ¦ MPEG-4 - 640 x 480 - 30 fps ¦ MPEG-4 - 448 x 336 - 240 fps ¦ MPEG-4 - 192 x 108 - 600 fps

The lens is only a 10x optical zoom with a crop option to go to 16x. It's not digital zoom, but a crop mode, since the sensor is 4000x3000.

Brendan Marnell · June 1st, 2009, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kin Lau

I noticed that a fair number of Casio digicams now have HD 720p and video modes of 480 x 360 - 210 fps ¦ 224 x 168 - 420 fps ¦ 224 x 64 - 1000 fps.

The new Sanyo VPC-FH1 comes _very_ close to what you want.

Video modes are MPEG-4 - 1920 x 1080 - 60 fps ¦ MPEG-4 - 1920 x 1080 - 30 fps ¦ MPEG-4 - 1280 x 720 - 30 fps ¦ MPEG-4 - 640 x 480 - 30 fps ¦ MPEG-4 - 448 x 336 - 240 fps ¦ MPEG-4 - 192 x 108 - 600 fps

The lens is only a 10x optical zoom with a crop option to go to 16x. It's not digital zoom, but a crop mode, since the sensor is 4000x3000.

This link ...

Sanyo VPC-FH1 Full HD 1080p Description - eXpansys Ireland

... includes the following description ....

"The FH1 packs tons of features which are sure to please the most discerning user; including 600fps slow motion mode, face chasing technology which automatically read and corrects focus and lighting for up to 12 different subjects, and 16x optical zoom for video."

... Are they exaggerating the zoom, Kin, do you think?
Also, do you think FH1 could shoot birdflight handheld, if I was propped up firmly? In other words has it got fast efficient autofocus and focus-points?

May 28th, 2009, 07:05 AM	#18
Ron Chant Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: West-London - England Posts: 125	Rob Good to hear you’ve getting the cannon you will now be able to reach those parts that other cams can’t, I use old manual Nikon Lens on my XL. Although I’m thinking of going over to the JVC HM700 and still use my Nikons, Filming the Hobbies, Hobbies are like Ferrari in the sky, I have seen them at Dinton Pastures Chasing the Damson and Dragon-flies. __________________ <')))>{

May 28th, 2009, 11:03 AM	#20
Brendan Marnell Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 938	I just can't let a sweet sharp slo-mo like that pass without breaking my butt trying to find out how you did that, Per, and with what?? Please tell all. I know it's a pain for you Per, but I have so much opportunity to shoot gull & gannet footage that I must find out what I could video with images like this .... Attached Thumbnails

May 28th, 2009, 02:49 PM	#24
Per Johan Naesje Trustee Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Akershus, Norway Posts: 1,413	Yupp, Rob nailed it! That's the camera the EX-F1 To be true, it's somehow amazing to view footage shot with it. But it's somehow quite difficult to operate for high speed recording IMHO! It require LOTS of light, you have to lock the exposure and focus, before you start shooting. And for wildlife you only got 12x zoom. At the 12x it require even more light, so I mostly do recording at the wider end, which gives me some depth of field to work with too! Another big problem is that it's only recording in 30p, which mean for us in PAL-land it's not easy to mix with footage shot at 25p/50i. This is the same problem as discussed about the 5D MK II. Indoor shooting is not possible because of the problem with flickering light due to our power cycle is 50Hz. I mostly bought it because of curiosity of how this technique works. __________________ - Per Johan

May 28th, 2009, 04:14 PM	#26
Brendan Marnell Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 938	Thank you, Per, very much. Would you say that 5D Mk II would enable you to shoot video and slo-mo it in post like you did with Casio EX- F1 ? Last edited by Brendan Marnell; May 28th, 2009 at 04:19 PM. Reason: correction

May 28th, 2009, 12:34 AM	#16
Brendan Marnell Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 938	Thank you, Dale.

May 28th, 2009, 02:46 AM	#17
Rob Evans Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 390	Gentlemen, thanks for your advice on this. Mainly on budget, I have decided to go for a XLH1 and I'm going to pick one up this weekend. Very kindly the guy I am buying it from (a wildlife filmmaker) is also going to spare an hour or two to take me through the basics - which is great! Just need to prepare my shopping list for the lenses, there's plenty of good threads on here with lots of information. There's a spot nearby where up to 5 Hobbies are feeding on Mayflies, and you can get really close to them - I'll be trying it out next week! Cheers, Rob oh, and re: casio exilim, has anyone focused two side by side onto a 35mm adapter image plane for a 960 x 720 @ 210 fps image ??? or is that just a totally stupid idea? ;-)

May 28th, 2009, 01:30 PM	#21
Rob Evans Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 390	Haha :) Those images remind me of the time I was fishing on the thames as a kid, deadbaiting for Pike. My friend did a long cast , and all of sudden started shouting that he had hooked something really big. I looked at his fishing rod, and noticed something odd - the line was pointing up, not down into the river. Sure enough, a cheeky gull had snatched it mid air and was trying to fly off with it. Then another gull had a go, then a third got involved. They gave up after about a minute!!! Went to see the Hobbies this evening, and ony got two fleeting glimpses. Still was nice to check the site out and get a good idea what other species are about - plenty of camera targets!!!!

May 28th, 2009, 02:10 PM	#22
Brendan Marnell Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 938	Per, where are you? I'll phone you if necessary. Please tell me the camcorder, main settings, and the editing programme you used to produce "gull-2.mov"

May 28th, 2009, 02:30 PM	#23
Rob Evans Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 390	Brendan, they are consumer compact cams that offer this, but the resolution gets lower the faster the capture. Casio Exilim High Speed: Digital Cameras Ruth Happel has used this cam for a couple of UWOL challenges, to great effect !!! http://www.uwolchallenge.com/challen...gtakeswing.mov

May 29th, 2009, 12:53 AM	#28
Brendan Marnell Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 938	Thank you again Per. Now I'm wondering why a small cam like Casio EX-F1 can manage 300 fps and more expensive video cams cannot do better than 30fps ... or is there a HD cam with x16 < x20 zoom that includes 300fps?

May 29th, 2009, 11:55 AM	#29
Kin Lau Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 385	I noticed that a fair number of Casio digicams now have HD 720p and video modes of 480 x 360 - 210 fps ¦ 224 x 168 - 420 fps ¦ 224 x 64 - 1000 fps. The new Sanyo VPC-FH1 comes _very_ close to what you want. Video modes are MPEG-4 - 1920 x 1080 - 60 fps ¦ MPEG-4 - 1920 x 1080 - 30 fps ¦ MPEG-4 - 1280 x 720 - 30 fps ¦ MPEG-4 - 640 x 480 - 30 fps ¦ MPEG-4 - 448 x 336 - 240 fps ¦ MPEG-4 - 192 x 108 - 600 fps The lens is only a 10x optical zoom with a crop option to go to 16x. It's not digital zoom, but a crop mode, since the sensor is 4000x3000.