Onboard Monitor for XL2
 

My hi-res 13" studio monitor isn't 16:9 switchable, and while my 8045Q is, and XL2 footage looks gorgeous on it, it's not big enough for day to day. So, I want to get a new NTSC widescreen monitor for the XL2 footage and was wondering about this unit. It's a Philips 17" LCD 16:9 progressive scan TV with 1280 x 768 resolution, component, composite and S-video ins.

Any thoughts on how the image might compare to say a PVM or JVC hi-res CRT.

You don't provide any model number for the Phillips. It sounds like the specs match the Sony SDM-V72W widescreen monitor that I use however http://displaysbysony.com/display/mo...p?pModelId=557 which is evidently discontinued but probably still available. The Sony is just a monitor, and not a TV however, so there is no tuner built in.

I don't know if this would apply to the Phillips, but here are my impressions of the Sony. I use my monitor with a PDX-10 which also shoots native anamorphic widescreen like the XL-2. I like it a lot, however it is certainly not a studio monitor. For starters, it overscans and I'll bet that any of these consumer monitors will do that. When I first plugged the camera into it via s-video I wan not happy, it seemed to show a lot of noise and the image wasn't very flattering. But by going into the menus and turning the monitors sharpness all the way off there was a huge improvement. Consumer TV's, especially LCD's, generally default to way too much sharpness.

Since it isn't a real studio monitor you can only approximate calibration. I put color bars on it and tweak the controls as best I can. Of course it suffers from the same problem as all LCD's regarding the contrast shifting with your viewing angle. Where I found this monitor most useful was in editing video to be digitally projected. When we showed the video on a huge screen with a big Barco projector I felt it really looked pretty much the same as what I saw on the LCD during editing. We had a good Sony studio monitor in the theatre connected to the same feed as the projector, and I felt my LCD was much more faithful to the projected image than the studio monitor.

These days I use the monitor connected to my Sony RDR-GX7 DVD recorder which I feed via firewire from my Mac running FCP. The LCD screen is connected to the DVD recorder via component video and the image looks great, noticeably better than the s-video hookup from my camera. My PDX-10 doesn't shoot progressive scan, but I often use DVFilm Maker to create 30p. If I feed this video from FCP to my DVD recorder and set it for progressive scan the Sony widescreen monitor detects the 480p signal and it really looks nice.

I've seen several other 17" widescreen LCD monitors in stores like Best Buy and CompUSA. If possible, see if you can do some A/B tests to determine which you like better. I guess my only real disappointment is the overscan issue, but you pretty much have to expect that I suppose. And the other issue is that you can't really be sure about brightness and color judgements when using an LCD panel. But overall it's served me well and I'll probably continue using it for awhile until I want to spend much more money on something better.

I think we're talking the same language here Boyd. I've got two studio monitors a great smpte-c 750 line hi-res 13" that unfortunately doesn't have switchable 16:9.

I'm wondering if the the fact that the Philips is progressive scan and decent resolution will make it a reasonable veiwing monitor for XL2 footage. I certainly know I can't do blue only calibration and do any critical color work on it.

I saw it on Circuit City's site and I might just take the XL2 down and see if I can plug it in and check the signal. FOr the record I use FCP HD and a Panasonic DV-1000 deck for NTSC output. I did away with the aAtrox card and converters when the new FCP offered real time NTSC support.

I'm just hoping (perhaps in vain) that I don't need to spend $2k next week for a decent widescreen NTSC studio monitor.

XL2 Monitor
 

I will be filming solo and need to be able to set the camera on a tripod, then stand in front to record myself giving a comentary.I need an extra screen to mount on the camera so I can see the framing. Is there a reasonably priced monitor available that will mount on the XL2, something about 4 or 5 inches.Also is it possible to turn the standard 2'' moniter/veiwfinder to face forward? I will be shooting PAL 16.9 wide screen.

hello joe,

well, i started out using a 13" tv.....what do they go for now $ 50? now i have a 7" lcd monitor, $ 400

greetings

I am looking for a monitor aswell. I hate to make another thread for this.

I don't mean to intrude on your topic either, Joe. I am hoping that if I can find an answer for my question then maybe it will answer your question or at least help you out aswell.

I am a college student and I'm having to be VERY tight on money. I can't spend more then 400$ on a LCD monitor, and I would like to spend less then 300$ if I could.

People suggest that you should just buy the more expensive ones because they are better. For me, I have no choice. I cannot afford to put more then 400$ into a LCD monitor. I know there HAS to be a monitor that is DECENTLY good for color judgement, and has a high enough resolution to be worth the money I will pay for it.

I have has my eyes on this specific monitor:
http://www.xenarc.com/product/700v.html

Will that be worth my money? Pros? Cons? Compare it to other monitors in the 200-400$ price range? I have read through endless topics about this and most of them end up in people suggesting the higher priced monitors, and I just can't do that. I really can't even spend 400$ but this isn't a want anymore, it's a NEED.

Just for reference, I am using an XL2 and I need a monitor with both 16:9 and 4:3 switchable aspect ratios.

I have looked at the IKAN V7000 and people have said it's display isn't worth the money. The picture just looks too bad. I want the best of everything I can get in price range.

Thanks for your time!

I know that you guys are talking about small ,on camera monitors, buy I just wanted to throw my two cents in. I picked up a used sony 8044q 9" monitor recently. I had a battery belt, so I'm using that when I want battery power.It's got that beautifull "sony' image, and is 4:3-16:9 switchable. with the porta brace case, you can mount it almost anywhere, and porp it up on an angle.
great piece of equipement.
Bruce yarock

i had an 8" sony fail on me a few weeks back and have been using a 7" lcd dvd player with an RCA input, made a 14" sun shade for it and mount it with industrial velcro. it is not color correct, it is not full resolution, it is not even remotely professional but weighs about 2 pounds and my director can hold it in his hands while we run a take and know whether he is getting everything he wants out of the shot and it is self-contained and lightweight, obviously it doesn't compare to the sony in quality but it is a whole lot faster to set up and it cost $180 and i don't feel any urgent need to get the sony repaired, i can accurately estimate the difference between the viewfinder and the shot at this point so i just come home at night and watch it on a 16X9 hdtv with progressive scan and reverse pulldown to make sure i did everything right,

hey, anything is better than waiting for dailies from a lab or watching a horrible fluttering videotap on a 35mm camera

on out of town gigs i can watch movies in the crappy hotel room when i can't sleep so that's a plus

-Jon

Jon,
i'm in the market for a new tv that I can watch stuff I've shot in 16:9. Also ,I might want hd. What brand is yours, and what is the "reverse pulldown" issue?
Thanks
Bruce yarock

XL2 Monitor
 

Thanks Jon, that sounds likie a great option.

I picked up a samsung hdtv, it's just a 26" but it looks killer. it's their newest 26, i don't remember what the model # was but it has a black border on the body around the screen and the older 26 was all silver casing. so look for the one with the black face and silver body. it has s-video and rca nputs on the side which is nice then component inputs, couple s videos an HDMI input, which apparently i can get a DVI-HDMI cable for and use it as a second computer monitor with my G4, so i will try it next time i have a big editing project. the way i hook up my camera right now is through a dvd recorder with a firewire input then a component output to the tv and it looks amazing!

i bought the tv for $584 dollars during a holiday sale at circuit city, i think the going rate is around $650-$700, the dvd recorder they gave me a deal on for $150 with the tv. all 24 months with 0 interest :) i will mention that i've only had the tv for about a month so i can't comment on reliability.

the 2:3 pulldown...

when you shoot film or video at 24fps and then play it on a tv it is being shown at 60i or 30p which means to keep the movie going at the proper speed they have to add frames, (the xl2 does this in 24p mode while recording onto the tape, it's done in a lab on film) so six frames a second are added to your video, if you picture 24 frames being counted like,
1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4
they add an extra frame between the 2 and the 3, usually it's a composite of frame 2 and frame 3, sometimes it's frame 2 doubled. the same thing is done for dvds or movies you see on cable.

so a reverse of that would be that the tv is recieving 24p footage at 30p and it deletes those extra frames as it goes, playing at an actual 24p, it does this for dvds too if you have a progressive scan dvd player. some companies call it "cinescan" or things like that but it's a reverse pulldown.

one more kind of related thing... when you sit in a movie theater watching a feature film that lasts 90 minutes you spend 45 of those minutes in complete dark. the movie is 24 frames per second but each one of those frames is only on screen for 1/48th of a second, then the projector's shutter closes and it advances to the next frame, taking 1/48th of a second. so the projector is literally flickering on and off 24 times a second. video is just always on, always displaying something so even 24p will never move quite like a strip of film being projected unless it is transferred to film, which i would love to see.


-Jon

I bought recently a 7" Panasonic TC-7WMS1 16:9 lcd monitor for I'm getting a crane built. Before buying the monitor I spent some time thinking of the same question as you, what is the difference between the cheap and expensive monitors.

First of all I noticed that many monitors have the same resolution, but the numbers given are misleading for many multiply the horizontal (or vertical) resolution by three because there are three colors r,g, and b. The Panasonic model is 480 x 234.

In general, I'm not sure whether the lcd monitor makes it easier to set the focus. This applies for the PAL XL2, the situation may be different for the NTSC XL2 because 234 is quiet close to one half of the NTSC resolution. Second, I definitely find the colors of the XL2 monitor more accurate than those of the Panasonic lcd monitor. Again, this applies only for the PAL, since in NTSC mode the lcd monitor has quite a lot more adjustments.

The price of the Panasonic is around 700$, and the image is not in my eyes that much better, if any better than those of the cheaper monitors. Though, the monitor may be more reliable than cheaper ones. Still, I suspect one does not really loose much, if anything, by buying a cheaper monitor or a portable DVD to which one can hook up a video camera.

Likely, in the future the small monitors will be much better in quality and also quite a lot cheaper than now. It's amazing how expensive the small LCD monitors are, if one compares them to the prices of computer monitors or lcd TVs --or even to the cheapest plasma TVs.

Well if you're willing to accept the compromises of a cheap LCD monitor or DVD player, then why not go a step further and just use your laptop computer (assuming you have one). This is probably the cheapest route. On the Mac there's BTV pro which I find really useful. In addition to providing both full screen and windowed modes it can also record to hard drive, display various scopes, shoot time lapse, etc. It also shows the full video frame which none of those consumer monitors will do. Of course there are some compromises in color and resolution, but for $40 it's a great tool:

http://www.bensoftware.com/btvpro.html

On the PC of course there's DV Rack, but that costs more. There are probably less expensive shareware options that run under Windows also, but I have never looked into those.

Jon,
Thanks for the info about the Samsung. I noticed on the circuit city page that it's not wide screen (doesn't support 16:9). Is that why you run the xl2 through the dvd recorder first? Do you know of any model that has 4:3 and 16:9 switchable (plus the other features that the samsung has)?
thanks
Bruce S. Yarock

I have a Samsung LTP227W widescreen 22" LCD panel with native 1280x720 resolution. This is a TV and not a computer monitor, and I really like the image. At several "big box" stores I looked at a lot of different screens in that size range and this one seemed the best. Of course it can do 4:3 as well by "pillarboxing" it using one of the aspect ratio options. It wasn't cheap, but prices have probably dropped since I got it. I use this screen for all my 16:9 DV (PDX-10, HVR-Z1) editing in FCP.

I also have a smaller 17" Sony 16:9 LCD model SDM-V72W with native 1280x768 pixel dimensions. This model has been discontinued, but has probably been replaced with something similar. It was marketed as a multimedia screen for PC's, games and video. It also has a pretty nice image which I think is comparable to the 17" LCD TV's. But here's something interesting about that screen; recently I got one of those big APC extended run laptop batteries that connects to your computer with a cable. It comes with a bunch of adaptor plugs, and one of them fits the connector from the power brick on the Sony monitor. Set the battery for 16 volts and it works like a charm. I haven't tried it on a shoot yet, so not sure how long it will run, but it's a simple, lightweight and relatively cheap way to power an external LCD panel. The battery is this one: http://www.apcc.com/resource/include...base_sku=UPB80

Boyd,
I've also looked at lcd's and the images are nice.What I'm looking for specifically is to replace my main home tv (27") with something that is at least the same size, has 16:9 and 4:3, and hd. On the one hand I want to be able to watch my 16:9 xl footage after shooting,watch cable movies in wide, and also be able to get hd programming (for what it;'s worth).
I've looked at the Sony tube model (30") for under a grand, and a Zenith lcd for a little more. Have you seen anything that would would fill those requirements?
Thanks for the info.
Bruce S. Yarock

After spending way too much time comparison shopping, I got a Panasonic 37" Vierra Plasma screen. I really like it - good size for my small room. I also opted for ED (854x480) instead of HD. That's all the resolution you need for DVD's, and in fact it works better than an HD set which has to scale fractional pixels. You might consider this as well for your XL-2 since it doesn't output HD resolution. HD broadcasts definitely look sharper than DVD's and SD broadcasts on this screen as well. The HD plasma screens are much more expensive and I didn't feel they were worth it.

Of course plasma may not be what you want if you're after a bargain, but this panasonic really stood out from the LCD's in terms of brightness and especially contrast.. Have you spent any time comparing screens at places like Circuit City, Best Buy, CompUSA, etc? I realize this isn't the perfect environment for this, but it you spend some time messing around with settings on the different models you'll start to form an opinion. There are plenty of bargain priced LCD and plasma panels there, but some of them don't look so great. As I said, I really like that 22" Samsung, but that's a little smaller than you want. I think they also make a ~27" version. Of course that starts getting more expensive though.

Bruce,
you must have been looking at the 32" 4:3 tv that has the black face and came out at the same time. The Samsung I picked up is 26" 16X9 and a full 1080i/720p/480p and it's switchable to 4:3 with neutral grey letterboxing on the sides.
I use the dvd recorder because I can output from the camera through a firewire to a component out which is a far better input than S-video or RCA and the tv can only receive progressive scan mode through the digital inputs not the analog ones, you can play through S-video but it's displayed at 60i.

also it has a built in hd tuner to decode airborn signals if you have an hd antenna which very few companies can say.

Jon,
I'm looking at this sony tube model, which seems to have most of what I need.
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...me=specs&var2=

You say-
<I use the dvd recorder because I can output from the camera through a firewire to a component out which is a far better input than S-video or RCA and the tv can only receive progressive scan mode through the digital inputs not the analog ones, you can play through S-video but it's displayed at 60i.>

Are you saying that you can't view 16:9 footage by connecting the xl2 directly into the tv (without the dvd recorder)?

Does it look like this Sony model would allow me to do the same thing you're talking about via a dvd recorder? ( I couldn't tell from the specs). Also, I had a Phillips dvd recorder which died, and need to buy something else.What model would you reccomend to be able to do what you're doing with the canera through dvd recorder to the tv?
Thanks a lot for the help.
Bruce S. Yarock

Boyd,
Thanks for the info. I was looking for something cheaper (around $1000). I like this Sony tube model, but am still trying to clarify afew questions.
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...me=specs&var2=,
Bruce S. Yarock

When I moved across town 3 years ago with my Sony WEGA 27" 4:3 CRT TV I swore I would only buy LCD's and plasma screens from now on. Those tube sets are ridiculously big and heavy! ;-) I'm sure they do represent the best value for the dollar however.

I understand what Jon is saying, and I do the same thing with my PDX-10 with a DVD recorder when viewing on my widescreen monitor. Your XL2 will work fine via an s-video connection to the monitor. Does the XL2 have component video output also? I can't remember. John's point is that component video will give you a much cleaner picture than s-video, and the monitor will not display in progressive mode unless you use its component inputs (for your 480p XL2 footage).

Any DVD recorder with firewire input should be able to transcode to component output but I suppose there might be some differences in quality between brands and price ranges. I have a Sony RDR-GX7 which I bought a few years ago when they were very expensive. Don't know if this model is still available, but it does a very nice job.

Is there anything out there that can be powered right off of the XL2? I don't want to be carrying even more stuff around.

Michael,

Take a look at the Nebtek monitor (Panasonic really), it has a battery connected to the monitor and can be mounted on the hotshoe. You can pick a Canon battery mount so it'll take exactly the same batteries that power the cam.

Though I have to say, the Xenarc that Travis posted above looks the most interesting. If it had a battery pack or if I knew for certain the $140 Nebtek battery pack would work with this monitor, it offers twice the Panasonic 7" resolution in the same size, slightly less weight and the same power requirements.

That I'm aware, there is no truly integrated solution for an LCD monitor on the XL series cams. I think if someone built a 4 or 5" LCD that looked like the cam and mounted directly to the cam and tapped power from the viewfinder power, they would sell quite a few. But I guess if we wanted that, we'd have bought a Panny or Sony.

Good point, Boyd. I will add to your advise by saying that the Canon DV-PC recorder (windows only) does a fine job. I used it on a shoot and it was really handy. That's only if you own an XL-2, which the original poster said he has.

regards,

-gb-

I would stay well away from anything of only 480x234 res. The 800x480's are barely any more money - often around $100 - and are far better.

I bought a 7.2" LCD monitor and have been using that. It has picture flip and rotate, so that's perfect for using with a 35mm adapter (see alternative imaging forum here), as the adapter creates an upside down image.

I mount the monitor to my shoe mount with a ball mount.

I have also tried running my camera upside down, with the LCD mounted to a ball mount which in turn mounts to the camera's 1/4"-20 tripod mount. That meant no problem with picture flip in post, but PITA to hold the camera and especially to making running changes.

I'm just a rookie at this stuff but I've been talking to people at LCD monitor companies and reading about LCD's on the web and here's what I've learned. There are very few companies that produce TFT LCD monitor technology, really only about 3 I believe. I'm just talking about the screen itself. Anyway, there is a somewhat larger number of companies producing the complete monitor but not as many as you'd think. Consequently, many of the automotive LCD monitors are very similar or even are identical with the exception of the silkscreening of the graphics and letters on the unit.

Anyway, there are a couple common 7"-7.2" screen resolutions:

800 x 480 display resolution (2400 x 480 dots)
480 x 234 display resolution (1440 x 234 dots)
345 x 234 display resolution (1034 x 234 dots)

The annoying part of shopping for monitors is that the second ones in the list, the 480x234's, are mostly advertised as 1440x234's. Yet the first ones in the list are mostly advertised as 800x480, which is misleading and makes it sound as if they have less resolution than the "1440x234" monitors. However the 800x480's have about the best resolution you can find in a ~7" monitor.

Also, all (?) of them are set for 4:3 but some can be set to letterbox a squeezed 16:9 image. This is great if you're using an anamorphic adapter or squeeze mode with a DVX. Not sure whether this helps XL2 owners.

Maybe someone better versed than I can answer this, but, isn't an 800x480 monitor more than you'd ever need, because native DVD format is 720x480 (NTSC)?

I forgot to mention batteries. I looked at the power my monitor requires - 12 volts and 8 watts - and used that to determine what battery suited my needs.

Batteries are rated in volts of course, and in amp-hours. Let's say we have a battery rated at 10 amp-hours. It can run a 10 amp device for about an hour, or a 1 amp device for 10 hours, and so on.

Amps = Watts/Volts

Again, my monitor requires 8 watts and 12 volts.

So, Amps = 8/12

So, Amps = .66

Well, I wanted to operate my monitor for a few hours, so I got a 5aH (amp hour) lantern battery. I keep it in a lens bag slung over one shoulder.
A 5 amp hour battery can produce:

5 amps for 1 hour
1 amp for 5 hours
.66 amps - like my monitor needs - for about 7.5 hours.

After many hours of operation, my monitor gets dim and starts to buzz. Just FYI.

I also bought a simple motorcycle battery trickle charger. You want as low a trickle charge as you can get; the battery likes it better. My charger was 1.5 amps and that is coincidentally the max charge the battery is rated to receive.

XL2 Field Monitor / Camera mount LCD
 

Hey guys i just picked up a 7" TFT monitor for my xl2 , but i don't know how to mount it or where i can find it. Does anyone have any suggestions?

generally you'd mount them either on the accessory show with a swivel mount or on some bracket

most LCD's come with the mount.

Does it have a screw on the bottom (kind of like a tripod screw hole) ?

if so you can use something like this

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

or this

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

BTV Pro for monitoring
 

Hey Boyd, I hope this thread is still running, though it's 6 months old!

I checked the link you provided for the BTV software, but am still unsure if I can use it to simply monitor my XL2 picture whilst shooting. I do understand that it allows me to monitor as I capture, and in full screen.

Can you confirm that the software allows me to use my Mac 15" PB as a monitor?

Portable LCD Monitor for XL2
 

Anybody have any good recommendations for an XL2 mountable LCD monitor in the 5-7" range? Looking around I see monitors with resolutions that are 1440X234 pixels or other strange combinations. Are these specs good for the XL2? I would have thought that a monitor would need at least 480 pixels in the vertical count to be sharp. Am I missing something? I am loking for something that will work well in 16:9 and will be good enough for focusing. I have a portable DVD player that has video in and can accept the 16:9 video but the picture quality sucks. It is very soft and is useless for anything but framing. The DVD player itself looks great when playing back a DVD. I am using the RCA video out from the XL2. I am looking in the $300 - $400 price range if possible. What would be awesome, and worth waiting until I had the money for would be a combo LCD monitor/Hard drive ala Firestore. I haven't seen this combo available. Anyone know if there is such a beast?

Thanks,

Colin

Lilliput makes a 7inch 16:9 LCD screen with 1024x480 res, a touch screen and VGA input. I took out the touch screen for enhanced image quality and it looks great!

Use it to focus my XL2/M2 combo

Matthew,

Do you know what model it is and the approx price? Sounds like it could work well. Also does it mount on the XL2? If so is it a shoe mount or rear bracket mount?

Colin

16x9 production monitor for xl2?
 

guys, soon I'm starting filming and I'm going to be using XL2.
Can you please tell me a relatively cheap production monitor, I could buy with 16x9 ratio. It's important for me to see exactly what the composition will be, as well.

Victor I would suggest checking out the Xenarc 7 or 8 inch units if you're on a budget. I think they are about $350 USD

Ben Winter and others on this forum has seen them and say they are quite good.
They are 800x480 vs. the Varizoom and several others which are all 480x240. It does make a big difference even with composite/SVideo. I find the previous class a bit mushy for my liking

I was looking for a 16:9 aswell but and went for the Marshall HDA with component input. Thats is about $1350 USD but worth it.

Paul

thaks Paul,
what do you think about JVC, like this one for example
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search
do you think I'm better of going for CTR monitors as oposed to Xenarc's lcd?

after you factor in the size and weight of a crt monitor, and it's still an option for you, i'd suggest getting the crt. i've used the jvc in the link you provided, and it's color accuracy and resolution will prove far more useful for focus and color checking than any camera mountable lcd i've used (and i've been through a few). that said, i have no experience with the xenarc or any of the high-end hd lcds out there now.

Thanks Henry, I agree with you on CRTs... that's probably the one for me especially when I don't want to spend $1200 for monitor....

TFT Monitor
 

I purchased a 7" TFT monitor for my XL 2 . It has an SG cable. What kind of adapter do I need to connect to the camera? Also, what is the best method of attaching the monitor to the camera?
Thanks,
John

Onboard Monitor for XL2
 

Hi all. I’ve been looking for a monitor to attach to my XL2 that’s about 7 inches that will go between 16X9 and 4X3. It has to be lightweight and portable, meaning battery powered or phantom powered (somehow). I don’t want to spend over 500$ but I will go a little over if I have to. I have looked for months to try to find one and have found a few, but they are either to expensive, they won’t work with the XL2 or they don’t shift between 16X9 and 4X3. If anyone has any suggestions it would be greatly appreciated.

Moved to Monitors forum from XL2 forum.

Have a read through ths thread...

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=68671

I went with the Varizoom VZ-TFT 7” 16:9 it does just what you want.

Everything you want at $475
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

Bill