2 low cost HD field monitors
 

I suppose low cost is relative...

In my hunt for a jib monitor I found these two.
Both of these use the MST controller board. Composite, svideo, component (SD and HD), D DB15 (vga) and hdmc compatible hdmi!
Neither monitor comes with a battery option, but can run for 3 or so hours with a tekkeon 3450.
Both monitors are 250 nits, so not very bright outside, but the smallHD comes with a sunshade.
Both monitors are able to display a 720p signal at true 1:1 full rez.


Manhattan LCD
ABS case. 4 mount points. 1366x768 native resolution.
$559

SmallHD.com
Aluminum case. 6+ mount points. (new model rumored to have more). 1280x768 native resolution.
$450.

The manhattanlcd is a 10.9" screen, the smallHD is 12.1". However, the smalhd monitor is actually physically smaller due to a more compact case.

The manhattanlcd monitor can also be purchased as a kit with all the guts for $325 for those of you handy with building custom fabricated monitor enclosures.


Anyways. Thought you guys might wanna know. I plan on ordering the smallHD monitor when it is upgraded on the 15th. I'll post a review as soon as it comes.

cheers!

Excellent find on smallhd.com . It's odd that both of these companies have initial ship dates of 09/15 .

I'm confused by the multitudes of 12V batteries available. Which do you plan to use? I'd like one that is easy to recharge, runs for at least two hours and is not bigger than 6"x2"x4" .

Yeah, i noticed that date thing too. I dont *think* there is any connection though.

The power issue remains to be seen. The manhattanlcd monitor can take from 8 to 12x.5 volts. In theory running it at 9v from the tekkeon should yield well over 2.5 hours. we'll see.

The tekkeon 3450 is what I'd like to use. They are "smart" batteries with charging curcuitry built in and a remaining power readout. They also have a usb port for powering usb devices and can be switched to multiple voltages so they could be used for other devices easily. At $120 I consider it well worth the cost for such versatility. I'll report back if i'm wrong. With the price of anton bauer batts and chargers, the tekkeon seems like the indy budget dream battery. we'll see.

As to size, the tekkeon is 6.85x.9x3.32. Its longer than you want, but smaller in the other two dimensions. Also, you can buy a second battery that hitches on to the 3450 for around $80 and effectively doubles its duration... still within that 2" thickness.

Its not the full 1080p HD 7.1" that samsung promised a few years ago, but its still an exciting time for low budget HD shooting. At 1/4 the siprice, these thins out-rez even the carrion by siniarch. And all the talk about what scaler is superior is kinda moot if the monitor shows full rez. . (at least at 720p)

I found some posts by the smallhd guys that the back mount was specifically designed to hold the tekkeon batteries. If they easily hook on , that would be a big plus for portability.

Cant wait until the 15th.

Thank you, Andrew. The battery you mention is a good size, and I was approximating what would fit in the back mounting area/counterweight of the Vortex Media VSB-1 shoulder mount. If it doesn't fit, I'll just mount it on the outside.

I've built the MLCD 10.9 and posted a documentation of that here...
Imago Metrics:Toshiba 10.9" DIY Enclosure
It's great and make an ideal Director's monitor.
I'm also in process of doing the same sort of enclosure for the 7.2" Kit from Manhattan LCD. The 7.2" I got uses a pixelworks controller board that allows for much better image control that the MCT board does. Both run just fine off of 9.V setting on the Tekkeon 3450.
SHAMLESS PLUG.
*I market a great custom battery holder for the Tekkeons. We just went into production and so I'll post a message in the marketplace later

Yes, please post info about the battery holder.

Where did you see the $450 price for the SmallHD monitor? I don't see it on the website, although the order section is down right now (or maybe until the 15th).

Also does anyone know what the deal is with the 1280x768 resolutions of these LCDs? I would assume the extra pixels (768 is taller than 720) would just be unused, but the action photos seem to show the LCDs with the enitre screen filled. Does the image get stretched vertically?

The $450 i saw in a forum discussion on another site and i confirmed it with an email to Dale. As to how it displays 720p, i dont know. I also wonder on the 480/576 modes if you can view it at 1:1 without scaling.

For the price its worth it to me so i'll find out when it ships.

cheers!

Here's the link.>> http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/932899-post1.html

How about mounting hardware? Perhaps there was a tolerance for $100-300 parts, but now that the monitors are $500 and less, what options do we have ?

Marshall V-LCD-MT-01 Camera Hot Shoe Mount (supports up to 5.6" LCD monitors)
Marshall | V-LCD-MT-01 Camera Hot Shoe Mount | V-LCD-MT-01 | B&H
$19.95
Comment: is this strong enough ?

Tote Vision
MB-1 ABS Desk Stand for Smaller Tote Vision LCD Monitors, includes 1/4-20 Mounting Screw
Tote Vision | MB-1 ABS Desk Stand | MB-1 | B&H Photo Video
$24.95
Comment: for desk, not on camera?

Tote Vision
HS-1 Hot Shoe Mount for Tote Vision LCD Monitors
Tote Vision | HS-1 Hot Shoe Mount | HS-1 | B&H Photo Video
$26.95

Delvcam
DELV-SM Swivel Mount Adapter for Delvcam 5.6-Inch LCD Monitors
Delvcam | DELV-SM Swivel Mount Adapter | DELV-SM | B&H Photo
$29.95
Comments: Weight is 1 lb

Delvcam
LCD MONITOR MONOPOD-BOOM-POLE MOUNT
Delvcam | LCD MONITOR MONOPOD-BOOM-POLE MOUNT | TT1047 | B&H
$32.95

Datavideo
BH-05 Ball Head Mounting Device, Shoe (Male) to 1/4-20 (Male), for LCD Monitor Mounting on Shoe Equipped Camcorder
Datavideo | BH-05 Ball Head Mounting Device | BH-5 | B&H Photo
$34.00

i was leaning towards this, as its pretty heavy duty and can be used on shoe or tripod:

Bogen / Manfrotto | 482LCD Micro Ball Head | 482LCD | B&H Photo

While I appreciate the sturdiness else-where, the 3.8 lbs is balking for use on a shoulder mount and very risk for use on a hot shoe.

Are there any sub-$100 on-camera handle clamps with mounting holes?

GlideCam sells a good handle bracket with four mounting screw holes, but that includes other parts.
Glidecam Low Mode FX
$250
Comment: very sturdy

Delvcam DELVG10801 Handle Bracket for Sony HDV Cameras
Delvcam | DELVG10801 Handle Bracket for Sony HDV | DELV-G1080-1
$80
Comment: Is the fit too specific to Sony Z1/FX1 ?

I am sure that I have seen a mount that screws into the spare pan bar rosetta on a fluid head... but cannot find it now. Any ideas?

well, thats disappointing. The smallhd monitor has been delayed (and changed around)

They have 2 or 3 of the 12" design like on their website available if someone wants to order now. They have shifted their efforts to an 8.9" with a "much better screen". I imagine that to mean brighter, buti suppose they could be talking about resolution.

Anyways, until they come out with something tangible and a ship date, this thread should really be titled "1 low cost HD monitor", since the manhattanlcd unit is shipping.

cheers,
-a

hahaha, did anyone else watch the product video for the smallhd? That has to be the funniest thing I've seen in a while

My manhattanlcd HD monitor is in transit and should arrive tomorrow. Thanks for the update on smallhd.com . I had a little buyer's remorse when I saw the smallhd.com product, but as it turns out, they can probably only make money on a smaller screen if they're trying to undersell manhattanlcd by $100 on a larger screen. It is difficult to compare these products on specs alone.

Let us know how the Manhattan LCD is -

I know Small HD is using an anodized aluminum casing while Manhattan is using ABS - I'd be interested in how durable the Manhattan LCD is. Both should be really similar in panel quality and resolution.

I bought a Small HD prototype not knowing it was just a bare aluminum chassis. I was hoping for black and am sending it back for credit towards the new model. Could be up to 2 months though so I'm curious about the Manhattan product.

Built of the SmallHD though is really nice and the LCD panel rocks. Just in too primitive state at this point for me - price is sure right though.

mike

I received the Manhattanlcd HD monitor today. It is lightweight at 2.38 lbs, a little heavier than listed on the web site. It looks great, and focusing is immensely easier. I was using a SonyFX820 portable DVD player with 8" 800x480. This HD monitor is so much better looking. In fact, the Sony EX1 overlays show major jaggies. While the SonyFX820 was better than the EX1's fantastic 3" LCD, the Sony just couldn't compete with the EX1 Expanded Mode view. The HD monitor easilyt beats both. I just wish that either the EX1 output the Expanded view to the HD monitor, or that the HD monitor had a zoom function. There is a Zoom button on the remote control, but it seems to create a screen tiled with row and columns of the input scaled down. What?!? Why?

The HD monitor seems sturdy enough, and I prefer it lighter weight ABS plastic casing to metal. I wonder if the RF input receiver could be removed to save space and reduce depth or save weight. I bought some swivel mounts: Tote Vision HS-1 Hot Shoe Mount for Tote Vision LCD Monitors and Delvcam DELV-SM Swivel Mount Adapter for Delvcam 5.6-Inch LCD Monitors. The Tote Vision isn't up to the job. The Delvcam is sturdy, but weighs one pound. I tried mounting this LCD to my Vortex Media VSB-1 shoulder mount, but had a hard time getting the right hardware and placement. I also tried the Sony EX1 hotshoe mount with the Devlcam, but the total weight of3.5 lbs is unwieldy for shoulder mount. It's fine for tripod use. There is defintely an issue with larger monitors in handheld operation. 8" diagonal seems to be the top of what is wieldy. Unless another technology such as OLED becomes viable, it will be hard to avoid a larger monitor whipping around and blocking your view. There are some on-monitor buttons, but they don't seem to work well, perhaps due to operational lag. Switching the input is clumsy with the front panel buttons, although easy with the included remote control.

Also, I compared SD and HS output on the Sony EX1 component output. It was hard to tell the difference, and I had to hunt for edges (used lace-like material on baby crib) to see the difference. I'll torture it some more, but it's hard to say if the downscaling by the monitor from 1080i to its native 1366x768 resolution caused the softness, or if the the monitors upscaling from 480i was equally soft or better. While it was not so find specific areas of my subjects (colorful baby toys), I can say that the HD monitor was more "alive" in 1080i than 480i. That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with the HD monitor. It's just that it's hard for me to see HD with such a pixel density. Any noise in the video signal destroys the HD detail on this monitor. It is very easy to see the Sony EX1 noise at +18 dB, although that camera sees better in the dark than I do with its 1/2" sensors.

I'll also add that the viewing angle isn't bad, but it suffers from the typical drop in brightness or contrast. I don't have the unit in front of me, but I remember the red shift is ok from a few angles (side? NOTE: come back to this later) but not from the bottom.

All of my experiments were with the Sony EX1 in 1080p30 recording mode driving either 1080i or 480i on the component output. It would be good to know if HDMI or SDI would provide a better monitoring solution. I would have preferred that Sony take a jump with HDMI. We would then also have access to more computer LCD panels. I'm sitting in front of two Apple 1920x1200 monitors ...

Thanks for the update, Gints.

Glad to hear you speak so highly of the LCD. One of my concerns is just that. How do these LCDs handle scaling? Seeing the Nebtek 7" HD LCD at NAB this year blew me out of the water. I was so used to Marshall's crappy image IMO that the scaling in Nebtek's to the 800x480 panel was pretty dang impressive. In fact, better than I had seen to date on a panel with that resolution. Enter the 1080x769 WXGA LCD's where we think we really have better resolution, but is the scaling as good?

Would be nice to do a comparison with all the LCD's $1500 and down and really put them to the test.

I agree on the handheld weight. The Ikan 8000HD was really nice for handheld although I wasn't as confident in the build of their plastic housing as your appear to be with the Manhattan LCD. Weight was awesome and I was pretty impressed with Ikan's price point for that LCD. The plastic housings obviously allow a larger LCD if needed on the rig without becoming too much a weight problem though.

great feedback - thanks!

It looks almost as good as the Sony EX1's 3" LCD, which is really too good. As I pointed out, the viewing angle is an issue if you're not right in front of the monitor. I think that Sony and Nikon (D30/D300) have been shipping LCDs that are better than most everything we'll be viewing the video, and that is almost unfair. Still, I'm very happy with the Manhattan HD monitor.

As for scaling, let's look into this. I'm willing to pay more for a support board with a superior scaler and a monitor with a wider viewing angle. 720P will probably be a truer image on the 1366x768 screen as it is subject to less or no scaling. There are some scaling options in the menu, but I haven't figured them out yet.

Gints,

Thanks a ton for taking the plunge and offering your review of the manhattanlcd monitor.

Have you had a chance to take it outside yet? I'm curious just how awful it is in daylight/sunlight. Is the image viewable at all?

thanks!-
-a

Andrew, I'll have more time with the unit at the end of this week. Until Wednesday, I'm involved in a shoot, although I'm in front of the camera for this one.

Hi Gints,
Thanks for the review. On the strength of yours and others comments I bit the bullet and ordered mine. I keep checking this thread for more monitor-crack so any other updates would be appreciated as mine is yet to arrive.
Could you post some pics of the lcd with your setup? Be good to see how you intend to mount it and also hear any other insights you have using it in a shooting scenario.

All the best,

Thanks
Matt

There is some trouble with the Tekkeon battery plug adapters fitting in the manhattanlcd. It's not loose, but the connection is intermittent enough to prevent the power. I held the plug to one side, and it does work. manhattanlcd supplies a battery connector plug with the fitting plug and two wires with stripped ends. This must be resolved before trying to use this in a session, but the fallback is the included AC power adapter.

Not too encouraging. Have you contacted them for a solution?

HD moitors
 

Wow just what i'm looking for guy's, here the question I have is there a tap wire so I can plug in to my anton bauer brick? and is the 1to1 ratio in all modes.

shawn

Heya Shawn,

The manhattanlcd has a 12v power input, and comes with a bare wire with the 12v connector on the end. I'm not sure what voltage the AB battery provides, but if you have a mount for it and it puts out from 8 to 12.5v, in theory you could wire it up w/ the provided cable. (anything under 8v or over 12.5v is not recommended)

As to the 1:1, I'm no longer positive either monitor shows a true 1:1. If they do, it would ONLY be at 720p, but i'm afraid it may zoom up the image to fill the 768 screen. Its 1:1 in that there is actually a pixel for every pixel in the signal, so its not scaling *down*, but I'm not sure it will do the cropping to show a true 1:1 720p signal within the 1366x768 frame. Thats still heaps better than putting 720p onto 800x480 like most pro monitors, but still.

The 1080 mode is definitely not 1:1, since the monitor is lower rez than 1080, and I haven't read anything indicating there is a "zoom to 1:1" mode. In fact, the zoom button supposedly does weird, not-useful things.

I dont have either monitor, so everything i'm spouting is based on reading specs, forum postings around the web and emails w/ the makers. So, please salt what i'm saying accordingly.

Now i'm all torn... buy the manhattanlcd now, or wait for the smallhd 8.4". hmmm.

I emailed manhattanlcd asking about transflective screens. He indicated that the monitor has brightness enhancement films installed, but which ones i'm not sure. Its definitely not transflective, and is probably invisible in direct sunlight. The question remains whether its invisible in indirect high ambient light. The sony 9" crt we've been using is completely and totally useless outdoors here in nz. Gotta drape a bunch of towels over it and have the director huddle under them squinting... so i'm quite keen for a really bright (500+ nits) solution.

Them being Tekkeon or manhattanlcd ? I think manhattanlcd provided the solution by including the proper connector and two wires. From there, all that is needed is an additional wire+Tekkeon battery-side plug. Then, you splice/clamp the wires together. In any case, the Tekkeon connector is of adequate length if the monitor is within a foot of the battery. Since I want to stick the battery in the back-side compartment of my Vortex shoulder mount to be used as counter weight, the Tekkeon cord is a bit on the short side.

If the smallhd is only 8.4", I think it will be difficult to actually discern HD from SD. In my initial experiments, the manhattanlcd was good, but you really had to look hard at edges to tell the difference up close.

Their 12" 1280x720p solution is more enticing if it is actually cheaper because it is also smaller. If you aren't mobile, I think a larger, 15" commercial 720p TV solution with a built-in stand is better for monitoring and your wallet.

Ah, from your explanation I thought there was some fault with the manhattanlcd in the power connector. My mistake. What kind of side plug are you referring to? Or more importantly would this provide a simple fix for a Tekkeon powered lcd?
Any pics yet?
Thanks
Matt

manhattanlcd provides an A/C adapter power supply with plug and a separate plug+unterminated wire for those needing a connection to a battery. So, they're done their job. The Tekkeon kit provides a number of plugs (all of which connect to the same generic Tekkeon plug) for connection to their battery. The trouble in this case is that the closest fit isn't close enough, and the Tekkeon battery-to-device cable is on the short side for my use. I hope that's clear. My plan is to cutoff the Tekkeon generic plug end and splice in that provided by manhattanlcd.

Quite clear Gints, thanks for the explanation.

Is there an underscan function? I've always felt this to be a pretty critical feature for monitoring in the field.

I've been building a couple of these kits from Manhattan LCD . Just finished the 7.2" Sharp with Pixelworks display controller. It does map 1:1. The Pixelworks board is the one to get, allows for full color control (H,S,B) too.
Here's my work on the 10.9" kit
Imago Metrics:Toshiba 10.9" DIY Enclosure
The MST board is much more basic and neither allows 1:1 mapping or color control/

I have the Manhattan LCD HD monitor product. How do I tell which board I have? Great review and DIY tutorial. Very impressive work.

voltage
 

caution on the AB bricks ... most bricks fully charged are actually more than 12v ... unless the monitor is rated for a range up to, say 15v, a fully charged brick could cause troubles or failures.

Thanks for the recognition.
Oh gosh! Turn them on. The MST board does not allow color calibration- just some simple color presets. The Pixelworks display just rocks! You can color calibrate RGB, HSB and Contrast and save them as a custom preset, to match BROADCAST standards!!! This is key in accurate monitoring of your video, something Directors appreciate.
The Pixelworks board also has 2 sets of inputs- HDMI & Component, for PIP display. Nice in a two camera situation! In fact a Director would benefit from such a board in field shoots.

I had assumed the manhattanlcd and smallhd both used the mst controller based on the configuration (and tuner).

It sounds like Gints is happy, so he probably wouldnt mess with it, but the mst board has a hidden menu which allows you to adjust rgb, as well as a bunch of stuff that you'd probably be better off not adjusting. If you type "2008" into the remote, it supposedly shows you the hidden menu.

If you try this and it works and the menu is useful at all, let us know.

cheers,
-a

I tried the hidden menu with the "2008" sequence, and it works. There are some RGB settings [0..127] for each component in a Color Temperature menu.

My troubles with the Tekkeon connector are over. There was another plug (yellow band, others have a black band) that fit better than the black-banded one. Initially, I just rifled through the connectors and took the first that fit.

There are some scaling options that show up when the input is 480i but not 1080i. Since my warranty is voided if I break the seals, I'd prefer not to open the manhattanlcd. Would any of your DIYers know the model#? I'd like to download a manual somewhere. The manhattanlcd package did not include a manual, and I haven't received a reply to this question from tech support.

I used this monitor for a couple of hours yesterday. There seems to be a significant red color shift, which is typical for LCD panels. I attached the monitor using a sturdy Delvcam swivel mount and the camcorder handle clamp from the GlideCam LowMode FX kit. It was great to swivel the LCD forward while the operator (my brother) used the monitor facing backward. Still, such a tall monitor will wiggle on the mounting screw. I think two mount points are needed. Where would I begin to look for such a u-shaped clamp? What is that category called?

Focusing was much easier on this monitor than on Sony EX1's viewfinder or LCD, but I still found myself relying on the blue-colored "peaking" function. After reviewing my footage on a big TV, I was happy with the focusing. Still, it is guesswork while shooting. The Expanded View mode would really help by saving the trouble to zoom in, focus, then zoom out and pray that the camera is truly zoom-through.

Here are a few features I'd like to see from camcorder makes:
1) Peaking function that works regardless of signal level. If your sharpes edges are not at maximum brightness, they don't register as well or as all.
2) Picture-in-Picture. Large picture would be ExpandedView mode while small corner picture would full view. Either that or programmable video routing of either view to LCD and/or video output.
3) Pannable ExpandedView mode.

I'm still thinking that a 720p or 1080i 15" monitor is what you need, though that isn't a mobile solution.

Thanks for posting the information about the "secret" menu for the RGB adjustments.

This really helped dial in the color on the SmallHD monitor.