stack of old tapes at DVinfo.net

Susanto Widjaja · July 10th, 2009, 05:24 AM

Hi guys,

what do you do with your old stack of tapes??

Everytime I look at them, I'm dying to go tapeless.. but then again, there's always that thought "what if you screw up the drive???" "what if the customer came in 6 months later and ask for some changes in the dvd??"

any thoughts??

Santo

Matthew Craggs · July 10th, 2009, 07:10 AM

Re: drive screw ups, in my opinion it's backup as you go. Either transfer the footage to a hard drive or one of those standalone data storage options.

Re: changes down the road, it can be fixed with a simple line in your contract saying that the client has X number of days after delivery to spot any technical errors, then the footage is wiped.

Chris Davis · July 10th, 2009, 07:15 AM

I agree, you do need to set a deadline in the contract for changes. After X months the data is wiped and/or the tapes are reused/pitched. I still have tapes from weddings I shot years ago, but I've decided I'm giving them to my kids for their DV camera and they can shoot over them.

You really need a decent backup solution - I recommend HP MediaSmart servers.

Susanto Widjaja · July 10th, 2009, 07:41 AM

ok i haven't got that deadline clause yet. Will throw that in. Thanks for that.

As of back-up drive, isn't it gonna be a lot of files to be backed-up?

like.. for example one wedding i average 8 tapes right.. that would get me around 100 gig to back-up. 10 weddings and you're already at 1tb. not to mention dvd burn image and stuff. Do you just get a 4tb system and go with it?

Tom Hardwick · July 10th, 2009, 10:16 AM

A Mini DV tape is so small and cheap it serves as a perfect long-term storage medium in my view. It just needs careful labelling and onto the shelf it goes. 13 gb, so cheap, so small, so reliable. I'd far rather trust tape than a HDD.

tom.

Brian Boyko · July 10th, 2009, 11:17 AM

I'd rather trust two HDDs than one tape. It's so big and bulky for what you get.

I've gone tapeless, myself.

What I do is I've bought a bunch of 750GB drives, a 1 TB internal drive, and an E-sata connected external drive bay.

Current project is edited on the internal drive, and copied in it's entirety to two separate 750 GB drives when it's completed. Then I can wipe the internal drive for my next project.

Brian Boyko · July 10th, 2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susanto Widjaja

ok i haven't got that deadline clause yet. Will throw that in. Thanks for that.

As of back-up drive, isn't it gonna be a lot of files to be backed-up?

like.. for example one wedding i average 8 tapes right.. that would get me around 100 gig to back-up. 10 weddings and you're already at 1tb. not to mention dvd burn image and stuff. Do you just get a 4tb system and go with it?

80 tapes x $3.55/tape = $284
80 tapes x 15GB = 1200 GB

Price per GB = $0.23

Two 1 TB drives x $135/drive = $270
Two 1 TB drives / Redundancy = 1024 GB

Price per GB = $0.26

------------

It's about the same price. For me, I prefer hard drives because digital media "glitches" (bad recording or bad capturing) less often in recording than tape does, it is MUCH faster to capture, and when I'm done editing the project, I can render a low-bitrate (8Mbps vs. 25 Mbps) copy of the source media and delete the original files if I think it's unlikely that I'm going to use them anytime soon.

Chris Davis · July 10th, 2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Boyko

80 tapes x $3.55/tape = $284
80 tapes x 15GB = 1200 GB

Price per GB = $0.23

Two 1 TB drives x $135/drive = $270
Two 1 TB drives / Redundancy = 1024 GB

Price per GB = $0.26

The real point I got out of Tom's post was that the data is *already* on the tape, so keep it there. No one is suggesting that tapeless shooters go out and buy MiniDV tapes for archiving.

Tom Hardwick · July 10th, 2009, 12:59 PM

Tape is just so reliable. My ¼" reel to reels from the 1960s still play just fine, but my 45 year old HDDs (ha!) aren't so hot.

Brian Boyko · July 10th, 2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

Tape is just so reliable. My ¼" reel to reels from the 1960s still play just fine, but my 45 year old HDDs (ha!) aren't so hot.

Yeah, but if you have to use tape as a backup medium, use 250GB computer tape. 15 GB is TINY.

Perrone Ford · July 10th, 2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

Tape is just so reliable. My ¼" reel to reels from the 1960s still play just fine, but my 45 year old HDDs (ha!) aren't so hot.

What environment are they kept in?

Get that tape wet. Get that tape hot. Get it near a TV or CRT monitor or DC Power Supply. How reliable is it then?

The base stock on 1/4 reel to reel is NOTHING like the base stock for miniDV.

I'm not much for using hard drives or anything mechanical for backups, but I'm ok with optical, and getting more comfy with solid state (CompactFlash, SDHC, etc.)

Chris Davis · July 10th, 2009, 02:09 PM

Sorry Tom, they're a humorless lot here. :)

Tom Hardwick · July 10th, 2009, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Davis

Sorry Tom, they're a humorless lot here. :)

Er - yes. 40 years of tape development has made emulsions and substrates hundreds of times better, cheaper and more reliable. And trying to erase digital on a 'TV or CRT monitor or DC Power Supply' is wasting your time.

Of course decoding linear analogue is a lot easier than decoding slant azimuth helical scan digital, as is decoding vinyl LPs (pin between the teeth) against MP4 on SD card. Our backups need some pretty sophisticated hardware to read them.

tom.

Jason Robinson · July 10th, 2009, 02:50 PM

I have been purchasing 1TB hdds in pairs. I have two USB sata dockign stations that I use to plug in both drives. Once I finish logging the footage from a wedding to internal HDD, I copy it to both externals.

After I finish a project, I get the backup HDDs out again, and copy the new media to the project (new media meaning audio cleanup-renders, soundtracks used, renders, temps, final VOBs, etc).

Then I mirror to the other drive.

That way I have everythign associated with the finished project in two places, and the source media in 3.

Susanto Widjaja · July 10th, 2009, 11:32 PM

its getting pretty technical now (or is it???)

I'm not very technical in terms of post-production hardware. I only use my trusted WD studio drives.. haven't tried ethernet drive or NAS yet.. would love to get some info about it and some recommendation.

what about raid system??

I don't really have a clue of what I'm asking now.

July 10th, 2009, 05:24 AM	#1
Susanto Widjaja Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 622	stack of old tapes Hi guys, what do you do with your old stack of tapes?? Everytime I look at them, I'm dying to go tapeless.. but then again, there's always that thought "what if you screw up the drive???" "what if the customer came in 6 months later and ask for some changes in the dvd??" any thoughts?? Santo __________________ If a picture is worth a thousand words, what about motion picture? website: www.papercranes.com.au \| blog: www.weddingvideosydney.net

July 10th, 2009, 07:41 AM	#4
Susanto Widjaja Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 622	ok i haven't got that deadline clause yet. Will throw that in. Thanks for that. As of back-up drive, isn't it gonna be a lot of files to be backed-up? like.. for example one wedding i average 8 tapes right.. that would get me around 100 gig to back-up. 10 weddings and you're already at 1tb. not to mention dvd burn image and stuff. Do you just get a 4tb system and go with it? __________________ If a picture is worth a thousand words, what about motion picture? website: www.papercranes.com.au \| blog: www.weddingvideosydney.net

July 10th, 2009, 11:17 AM	#6
Brian Boyko Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 773	I'd rather trust two HDDs than one tape. It's so big and bulky for what you get. I've gone tapeless, myself. What I do is I've bought a bunch of 750GB drives, a 1 TB internal drive, and an E-sata connected external drive bay. Current project is edited on the internal drive, and copied in it's entirety to two separate 750 GB drives when it's completed. Then I can wipe the internal drive for my next project. __________________ Equip: Panny GH1, Canon HG20, Juicedlink, AT897, Sennh. EW/GW100, Zoom H2, Vegas 8.1

July 10th, 2009, 11:32 PM	#15
Susanto Widjaja Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 622	its getting pretty technical now (or is it???) I'm not very technical in terms of post-production hardware. I only use my trusted WD studio drives.. haven't tried ethernet drive or NAS yet.. would love to get some info about it and some recommendation. what about raid system?? I don't really have a clue of what I'm asking now. __________________ If a picture is worth a thousand words, what about motion picture? website: www.papercranes.com.au \| blog: www.weddingvideosydney.net

July 10th, 2009, 07:10 AM	#2
Matthew Craggs Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Welland, Ontario Posts: 311	Re: drive screw ups, in my opinion it's backup as you go. Either transfer the footage to a hard drive or one of those standalone data storage options. Re: changes down the road, it can be fixed with a simple line in your contract saying that the client has X number of days after delivery to spot any technical errors, then the footage is wiped.

July 10th, 2009, 07:15 AM	#3
Chris Davis Trustee Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Willmar, MN Posts: 1,400	I agree, you do need to set a deadline in the contract for changes. After X months the data is wiped and/or the tapes are reused/pitched. I still have tapes from weddings I shot years ago, but I've decided I'm giving them to my kids for their DV camera and they can shoot over them. You really need a decent backup solution - I recommend HP MediaSmart servers.

July 10th, 2009, 10:16 AM	#5
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	A Mini DV tape is so small and cheap it serves as a perfect long-term storage medium in my view. It just needs careful labelling and onto the shelf it goes. 13 gb, so cheap, so small, so reliable. I'd far rather trust tape than a HDD. tom.

July 10th, 2009, 12:59 PM	#9
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Tape is just so reliable. My ¼" reel to reels from the 1960s still play just fine, but my 45 year old HDDs (ha!) aren't so hot.

July 10th, 2009, 02:09 PM	#12
Chris Davis Trustee Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Willmar, MN Posts: 1,400	Sorry Tom, they're a humorless lot here. :)

July 10th, 2009, 02:50 PM	#14
Jason Robinson Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 1,997	I have been purchasing 1TB hdds in pairs. I have two USB sata dockign stations that I use to plug in both drives. Once I finish logging the footage from a wedding to internal HDD, I copy it to both externals. After I finish a project, I get the backup HDDs out again, and copy the new media to the project (new media meaning audio cleanup-renders, soundtracks used, renders, temps, final VOBs, etc). Then I mirror to the other drive. That way I have everythign associated with the finished project in two places, and the source media in 3.