Do you always shoot weddings at 1080P/24p?

Eric Olson · June 24th, 2011, 03:28 AM

My guess is you currently have 60i progressive segmented frames or have connected the DVD player to the LCD using an interlaced output such as the yellow composite cable.

When 60i is played back on a DVD player to a LCD television the DVD player keeps every field and deinterlaces to 60p. This can introduce twitter unless the image has been low pass filtered in the vertical direction. When a computer plays the same footage it throws away half the fields and deinterlaces to 30p. This will not cause twitter.

Rescaling HD to SD using Premier can introduce aliasing as well as interline twitter. If you are worried about quality, I would recommend Dan Isaacs hd2sd scripts

HD to SD DVD – Best Methods | Creating Motion Graphics Blog | Blu-Ray DVD Authoring Menu | Precomposed

I'm not a Premier user so I can't comment on how to master 24p to DVD using soft pulldown flags. My recommendation would be to check your current results by inspecting the VOB files of the finished DVD with mediainfo to see if they are progressive with flags or interlaced. Perhaps someone else can give more information on Premier.

George Kilroy · June 24th, 2011, 03:46 AM

Thanks again Eric for taking time to answer me.
I'll just point out that I'm in UK therefore I read your 60i 30fps as 50 and 25, and I'm not using 24p it is 720x50p footage.

As you'll realise I don't have the technical understanding of how the MPEG is created with flags and pull downs, but I do grasp the difference between Progressive and Interlaced.

I don't have a problem letting Premiere or Encore do the scaling and compressing to encode the HD footage for DVD, it looks fine on the computer (if a bit softer than the HD), both as a Progressive MPEG or an Interlaced one. The problem I have is when I play the Progressive one on a DVD player. The Interlaced one is absolutely rock solid but the Progressive one jitters.

Obviously I don't have access to a huge array of DVD/TV combos, both set ups I've got show it as does one that I sent out to a customer, who returned it with the complain that I describe. I sent them an Interlaced one and they are happy.

I understood that the general wisdom is to keep progressive footage in a Progressive domain throughout, but this doesn't seem to be working for me and I'd like to try and find what I'm missing.

Eric Olson · June 24th, 2011, 05:50 AM

Mediainfo is available at

http://mediainfo.sourceforge.net/en/Download

If you author a 10 second long DVD and post the relevant VOB file from the DVD, I might be able to tell what it wrong with it. The file should be about 10 kilobytes long, so it can possibly be attached to a post.

George Kilroy · June 24th, 2011, 06:21 AM

Many thanks Eric.

I'm rendering out a wedding at the moment so I'll do what you've suggested when it's finished and send it to you.

June 24th, 2011, 03:28 AM	#46
Eric Olson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 553	Re: Do you always shoot weddings at 1080P/24p? My guess is you currently have 60i progressive segmented frames or have connected the DVD player to the LCD using an interlaced output such as the yellow composite cable. When 60i is played back on a DVD player to a LCD television the DVD player keeps every field and deinterlaces to 60p. This can introduce twitter unless the image has been low pass filtered in the vertical direction. When a computer plays the same footage it throws away half the fields and deinterlaces to 30p. This will not cause twitter. Rescaling HD to SD using Premier can introduce aliasing as well as interline twitter. If you are worried about quality, I would recommend Dan Isaacs hd2sd scripts HD to SD DVD – Best Methods \| Creating Motion Graphics Blog \| Blu-Ray DVD Authoring Menu \| Precomposed I'm not a Premier user so I can't comment on how to master 24p to DVD using soft pulldown flags. My recommendation would be to check your current results by inspecting the VOB files of the finished DVD with mediainfo to see if they are progressive with flags or interlaced. Perhaps someone else can give more information on Premier.

June 24th, 2011, 03:46 AM	#47
George Kilroy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 699	Re: Do you always shoot weddings at 1080P/24p? Thanks again Eric for taking time to answer me. I'll just point out that I'm in UK therefore I read your 60i 30fps as 50 and 25, and I'm not using 24p it is 720x50p footage. As you'll realise I don't have the technical understanding of how the MPEG is created with flags and pull downs, but I do grasp the difference between Progressive and Interlaced. I don't have a problem letting Premiere or Encore do the scaling and compressing to encode the HD footage for DVD, it looks fine on the computer (if a bit softer than the HD), both as a Progressive MPEG or an Interlaced one. The problem I have is when I play the Progressive one on a DVD player. The Interlaced one is absolutely rock solid but the Progressive one jitters. Obviously I don't have access to a huge array of DVD/TV combos, both set ups I've got show it as does one that I sent out to a customer, who returned it with the complain that I describe. I sent them an Interlaced one and they are happy. I understood that the general wisdom is to keep progressive footage in a Progressive domain throughout, but this doesn't seem to be working for me and I'd like to try and find what I'm missing.

June 24th, 2011, 05:50 AM	#48
Eric Olson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 553	Re: Do you always shoot weddings at 1080P/24p? Mediainfo is available at http://mediainfo.sourceforge.net/en/Download If you author a 10 second long DVD and post the relevant VOB file from the DVD, I might be able to tell what it wrong with it. The file should be about 10 kilobytes long, so it can possibly be attached to a post.

June 24th, 2011, 06:21 AM	#49
George Kilroy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 699	Re: Do you always shoot weddings at 1080P/24p? Many thanks Eric. I'm rendering out a wedding at the moment so I'll do what you've suggested when it's finished and send it to you.