Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Just to get a bit more on topic; I have been thinking about how to use the cx730 next time when I have to stand up at the altar to film the exchange of the rings, I had a houdloupe lying around here collecting dust (you know that type with the elastic band that you have to tie around the dslr body, didn't use it as it was to cumbersome, bought one which attached with a magnet instead afterwards. Anyway, the hoodloupe had the right size to fit the lcd screen from the cx730 and I managed to make a small kind of latch attached to the hoodloupe which makes it easy to slide the hoodloupe onto the lcdscreen and once in position it won't move anymore, it also detaches very quickly. It's also not too heavy so the lcd stays in place.

My eyes are not what they used to be an I need such a hoodloupe (with a diopter adjustment) to asses focus, like I do on my dslr, from a distance I never can be sure when I select spotfocus to see if the camera is focussing right. Instead of holding the camera in front of me during the vows, I can keep the hoodloupe pressed against my eye and adjust exposure with my thumb on that small wheel, if I need to do a quick refocus I could press the small button on the front wheel and assign focus to it, not the fastest way but better then nothing and more accurate then spotfocus when it's too dark.

I also ordered a hotshoe adapter to go from the Sony's Active Interface Hotshoe to a normal hotshoe, so I can attach my rode videomic (that has been collecting dust as well for a long time) The rode is quite bulky but it can be positioned in such a way that it's closer to the camera and not extending the lens of the camera too much so it will not be in the image when the lens is wide.

When you press the hoodloupe against your eye when it's attached to the cx730 it has a bit of the feel and look of a dslr, especially when coupled with the rode. The hoodloupe is a valuable accessory, the rode is just for looks, unless I find the audio quality better but have not done a test, just a bit afraid of getting to much contactnoise.

First I was thinking of using a monopod but that will only slow me down and limit my movements too much, the image stabilisation is so good that you don't need that for run and gun. I also like to be as mobile as possible, the hoodloupe is also attached with a strap around my neck so I can detach it quickly and don't have to hold on to it. the rode is also quickly removed and added in a small bag. I will post a pic as soon as I receive the adapter for those that might be interested.

Are there any more here that have customized their handicam for easier handling? Someone care to post pictures? (Like Rickey did at page one)

I do feel a little excited, I know the small handicams can be more tricky to operate when you quickly need to change something, especially since I"m used to my xh-a1 ease of use. (but it is certainly easier to handle then a dslr) But just the thought of not having to drag all that bigger gear around makes one less thing to worry about. I always had to think what to use when, "should I leave the xh-a1 in the car and take only the dslr? But it's a cloudy day with sun coming out meaning constant changing light conditions and I have to film a important moment partially in the shade and in the sun, then it's better to take the xh-a1 and leave the dslr in the car, or maybe take the xr520 because it's quite dark inside the house as well, but there's not much space and the 40mm lens is very limiting, maybe take the dslr anyway and use a 14mm, or maybe......" :)

Now I just put the cx730 in a small holster attached to my belt and one dslr on a monopod with a strap that I can hang around my schoulder, I have both with me all the time and can switch very quickly if circumstances ask for it. Wideangle, low light, shallow dof in 2 small packages. What a joy, no more headache and worrying what or what not to take, just go out and film. :)

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Hey Noa, I use a xa 10 for weddings along with a 5D and t3i, To answer your question, yes you can turn the focus ring and exposure ring at the same time and it still looks good. It is a gradual change, not a step change or like dslr where you can visibly see the light changing. It is so great that I'm going to buy another to replace my t2i. I will run with 2 xa 10's a 5d and a t3i. The xa 10 is very good in low light as well. I did shoot a pastor last sunday and the lights where somewhat low and the xa 10 lost focus for a second. I quickly hit the manual focus button and adjusted focus myself. If you need to switch back, just hit the same button and autofocus will take back over.

As far as small cam vs big cam. I personally struggled with this about 2 years ago as I made the switch to dslr. My take is I book more brides and grooms from seeing my work then I do seeing my equipment. It's that simple, at least for me. If you are at wedding and someone sees your setup and you have big cams, they may be impressed but most likely they still want to see your work. As where it normally doesn't work the opposite way. If people see your work and its great, a vast majority will care less what it is shot with. I have shot over 50 weddings over the last two years, and I think 2 grooms ask me what equipment I use. Then when I told them they just said ok and that was that. They didn't expand or ask any specifics. One time a groom asked me, and I rattled off all the cams and model numbers, then all my lens and focal lengths, and he just looked at me like I was speaking another language! He just said ok, and we moved on. As a matter of fact, since weddings are fast paced I actually prefer the smaller lighter cam nowadays. I can go on and on, but this is just my experience over the last 2 years. I completely understand where your mind is, but trust I think it matters more to you then your potential clients!

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Thx for letting me know about the exposure control Keith, I already started a separate thread to get some more feedback about the xa10 features.

About small vs big, some weeks ago I came out of church, my xh-a1 was in the bag around my shoulder but I was holding my Sony xr520, outside a second wedding couple was waiting to get in and their cameraguy had a professional shoulder mount camera, no backpack, tripod or second cam, just that really big heavy camera that he was holding with two hands and I saw him looking at my camera and he smirked at me :)
But I bet my 2 cam set up will look better then his one camera, just that one extra angle does make all the difference. :)

About telling your clients what camera's use you, believe it or not but yesterday I had a couple visiting me for a wedding next year and the guy did ask about my equipment. I showed them some weddingdemos first and then I showed him a 550d body (without a lens to emphasize the small size) and my new cx730 and he smiled, looked at this girlfriend and back to me and said "wow, really?" :D.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

One more question a for those solo operators that use a 2 to 3 camera set up at a ceremony. Do you run your unmanned camera in full auto mode? And do you whitebalance all your camera's?

If I have a ceremony at a venue I usually have enough time to setup, when the lightsource doesn't change I manually whitebalance all my camera's and lock the focus on the unmanned camera's. But in a church wedding I have about zero setup time and then I have to leave them at auto everything and I noticed the cx730, with the lens wide (26mm) seems to do a very good job judging whitebalance as what I've seen on my monitor so far is the same as what I saw in reality. I wonder how you guys cope with challenging lightconditions with the unmanned camera's.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

I"m on a roll...:) Anyone any experience in using a Beachtek DXA-5DA xlr adapter with handicams that have no xlr?

Just thinking out loud as the cx730 would be 40% cheaper (there's still a cashback action for this model) then a xa10 with the beachtek included, I could even get a extra Sennheiser ew100 eng g3 and be at the same price as a xa10. I won't have any matching issues at all , like in color. The beachtek does have the same width and length as the sony and adds about 4 cm in thickness. The extra wheight would be very welcome as well as the sony is too light currently to balance on my blackkbird and I can use the beachtek with my 550d as well when required. The Beachtek doesn't have any phantom power but my at897 can be powered with aa batteries, as well as the Sennheiser. This also would mean I don't have to sell my xh-a1 and keep it for more specialized purposes. Am I thinking too much? :)

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Thought I'd post a few straight screen grabs to illustrate how Noa's guy with the big cam would have died at yesterdays wedding, and also to illustrate how fixed positions do not need to have a CCTV look.

The ceremony room is fairly typical of many in the UK. Long and thin, dark but subjects backlit, filled to overflowing with guests and therefore making movement difficult.

Not sure if these screen grabs are going to show or whether you'll need to click on links, anyway:

The first is from a cam positioned at the back of the room on a lightstand and framed to provide good scene establishing shots whether the couple are standing or sitting, and to include the various readers when possible. Would not include usable shots when the guests are standing as they block the view and having the cam any higher risks giving that look that Nigel hates :- ) Normally I would aim to place this cam in the centre aisle at the back so that usable footage is available regardless of whether the guests are sitting or standing. On this occasion the framing is off centre so that I can include the readings but I will crop to centre the couple where appropriate. In larger rooms I may get the opportunity to revisit and reposition this cam but thats not practical in this scenario – no space to squeeze past the groom from my front right corner stills shooting position, never mind getting round the guests.

http://www.ashtonlamont.co.uk/images/dvinfo/image1a.jpg

You'll see that there is a second cam attached to the window with a Delkin suction bracket. Its more prominent than I would have liked but there was no available window fixture which I could use with a mini clamp. Guests and couples never notice these cams anyway – I would know if they did because of feedback and also they would show looking at the cams in the footage. The alternative for the more – as it were – creative videographer would have been an operator standing in the window alcove right next to the celebrant and in full view of the couple and guests – totally unacceptable.

Again footage from the window cam can be cropped to account for whether the couple are seated or standing as the cam cannot be adjusted mid-ceremony for obvious reasons.

A grab from the window cam:

http://www.ashtonlamont.co.uk/images/dvinfo/image2a.jpg

The window cam captured beautiful footage of the processional including flowergirls and bridesmaids – something that was totally impractical for me to do as the stills shooter. It also got great footage of the ring exchange which again was very hard to do as the stills shooter from my front corner position as the walls either side of the window alcove mean you cannot get far forward enough and the crush of guests means you can't move backwards either.

I had asked the celebrant to go slightly towards the side of the table away from the window cam so as not to block its view and she was fine with that.

You can just make out the 1st cam on its stand in the rear corner of the room. Not something thats going to detract from the ceremony at all.

The one cam I was able to control stayed with me front corner. I got a variety of reframes with this for example the next grab from the same part of the ceremony in which the brides brother makes his reading:

http://www.ashtonlamont.co.uk/images/dvinfo/image3a.jpg

This series of shots also illustrates another reason why videographers seem to be in low demand – many UK venues simply don't lend themselves to the requirements for space that has until now been required. I have shot at this venue where huge flower arrangements have been on either side at the front and where a relation has videod from the opposite side front to me (before I offered video). You can just imagine what its like if you add live music as well!

The main audio recorder was hidden in the flowers on the table and a second one off to the opposite front to capture the reader from close. Even picture frames can be used to clamp small recorders in place. Personally I like the results from H1's used in this way – plenty of emphasis on the persons speaking but with ambient that is an accurate rendition of what it was like to actually be there in the room.

As regards style, mine is unashamedly documentary. This comes from my years of experience designing hundreds of albums from stills for clients. I give my clients as much input as they want into the design and they approve the design before manufacture. Before the wedding they all think they will want a largely arty concept album but afterwards, when a few weeks or months have gone by and they've settled down, the images chosen are dominated by formals. This is just a fact of life. So whilst you do need arty concept stuff to attract some clients in the first place I don't think its an accurate reflection of mainstream tastes. Many photographers give their clients little or no input into the design process, playing the “I'm the artist” card. This bogus reason hides the real life situation that many rely on software or templates or subcontract designers that cannot really cope with client revisions so its for the photographers convenience not for the clients best interests.

Noa – you mentioned cropping. Yes I am aware of the technicalities :- ) But many modern DVD and BluRay players make such a good job of upscaling that often its a non-issue. If I were cropping footage shot in standard definition then that would be another matter …..

Noa – the Pannys I use are pretty good with their auto settings especially backlight compensation. The wide shot from the rear above is a case in point. If I were setting manual exposure then I would have to change it every time the sun came out from the clouds as the window in front of the couple had very varying illumination. I usually prefer to deal with white balance in post because it can change so drastically depending on where your cam is framing especially in large churches with multiple light sources. In practice the Pannys usually get pretty close or spot on though they are very slightly different from one to the next.

Noa – setting a stills cam to shoot at regular intervals would not work as I'm sure you realise as the right moments are so short and fleeting. I am however considering using a GoPro for just that in scenarios where I cannot get a desirable position either because of venue rules of physical limitations. This would work much better with GoPros than with standard cameras because the extreme wide angle means that facial expressions are not as prominent.

Pete

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Thx Pete for sharing, The framegrabs look very good indeed, too bad you don't have a videosample. I didn't want to be too nosy but since the stills linked to your site I had a quick look :) Is there a reason why you don't have any video samples at all on your site or not even mention anything about it? (maybe I overlooked it) Since you do and sell both at the same time? Because you get so good client reactions to your videos you should display them as it would be an extra reason why people should hire you, you even could include the reactions as free advertising, just like you do now with your photo's.

Btw, I do like the idea of the suction bracket, that point of view would not have been possible from a tripod since there was no space so thanks for sharing that info, very usefull.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

When I am shooting solo I will definitely use 3 cameras at the ceremony. My methods have now evolved to using an XF105 for the wide safety shot straight down the aisle then an unmanned 5D3 on the bride's side shooting towards the groom & operating either a C300 or another 5D3 from the groom's side shooting towards the bride. I also have a 5D2 on a Glidecam beside me ready to grab & use for shots like me walking backwards shooting them coming towards me as they walk down the aisle at the end of the service. I white balance all the cameras to be the same. If there is time &/or the light is weird then I will do a custom manual white balance but generally I will pick daylight or tungsten as appropriate & make sure that all cameras are set the same.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Wow Nigel, that's quite an impressive videokit you have there :) I guess you never can blame your equipment for bad images ;)

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

I wasn't trying to brag:-) I have far too many cameras & really should sell some of those that I don't use e.g. Panasonic GH2 but I don't really need the money at present & there is always the thought that it might be useful. It would probably be easier particularly for editing if I just used three 5D3s but the C300 (which justifies itself for other work) produces such stunning images that it's difficult to leave it at home even if it is more difficult to use than the 5D3.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Here is the CX550v with the mattebox and rail, and to my observation it didn't look bad after all. I didn't push the lens inside the donut for it was not the correct size, but yes to answer your question it will fit with the supplied correct size. Though I prefer not to mount the mattebox on the CX, so I could put it in the holster as for back up, in case big brother Z7u lock up.....knock on wood!

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

i've been thinking about getting that Matte Box for my DSLR rig, i want a compact one that doesn't throw everything off in my rig size and weight wise (like a RedRock for example).

The Genus looks like the best quality one i could get but i always see the model you have on many people's rigs and it costs much less. Any comments on it? pros, cons?

How much vertical adjustment is there?

Any help is appreciated :)

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Originally my preference was the Genus but the I found that it is too big and heavy for the DSLR, besides the vertical adjustment does not come with it.

That's why I went with this mattebox, it's compact, lite and the built is of high quality, the donut ring comes in different sizes as I have mentioned earlier, the vertical adjustment is 1 1/2".

The only negative that I could say is that, there are some black residue in their packaging, and I don't know if those are dirt from their factory.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Thx Rickey for the pictures! I see you have a beachtek, does that work well with the cx550? First I wanted to get a extra xa10 but for a lot cheaper I could attach a Beachtek DXA-5DA to a second cx740 which has level meters, size also seems to be exaclty right but I needed some first hand experience with these type of adapters. I don't know if the cx series suffer from that audio agc issue dslr's seem to have which introduces a hiss in the sound, I understood Beachtek sends a 20 kHz tone to the camera to prevent the camera to increase to a too high level. How does that beachtek cx550 combination work when using xlr microphones, is the recorded sound quality good? Any noticeable hiss or other stuff that's not supposed to be in there?

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Noa, I haven't notice hissing sound from the CX with the Beachtek , sometimes I use this combo for interviews and it gives great results, sound coming out from CX alone without the Beachtek is clean using the wireless mics.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Noa, I've just printed those three screen grabs from Panny TM900's at 7.5" x 5" using my Epson 4800 wide body pigment ink printer (n.b. for that read professional printer :- ) ). I did a small amount of editing to the JPEGs in Capture One Pro. They have come out to a standard that I would regard as more than acceptable and since content does trump technical merit every time I'm sure that most clients would be delighted to have this extra variety from the alternative viewpoints. The only time I've done that before is where shooting of stills or video has not been allowed and I've just let a sneaky 5DII run in video mode without the celebrants knowledge; 5DII's were good for that before celebrants realised these could shoot video :- )

For comparison I also printed a 7.5x5 of the reader which was shot in full stills RAW and edited in Capture One. There is a clear difference in technical quality e.g. in hair detail and in suit stripes when viewed side by side but it does not make the screen grabs look bad. And there was me thinking I'd have to wait for 4000 Reds shooting RAW video :- ) And when you know that the still was shot at 4000ISO with the exposure just backed down .6 of a stop in post the comparison is even more interesting.

This could be a very significant development - the ability to provide usable stills from several different vantage points without using more than one operator.

The reason I don't have much info about video on my wedding site is partly because of pressure of work. I do provide details in response to enquiries and include sample discs. However I'm also aware that the V word can work against me as well as for me. Video is so poorly regarded by the public at large that this could adversely affect my stills bookings. The same happens with mixing wedding and commercial work in the stills field. If you have weddings on your site you don't get commercial work and if you have commercial work you don't get weddings. You really need to have two separate business identities. Thats just the way it is.

I've looked at some of the 5D video samples and I'm not seeing a night and day difference between these and the smaller cams. The same sorts of demanding interior lighting conditions are making the finished product less than perfect, which is only to be expected. The shallow depth of field may mean the occasional missed focus or people closer than the subjects going too much out of the DOF to seem natural. And the manual exposure challenges in rapidly changing light; I favour spinning the ISO whilst recording with the 5DII's when that happens rather than changing the aperture or shutter speed or slinging on a filter but it can of course mean jogging the cam. Again the fixed screen on the Canon is hard to view compared to a fully articulating screen. I use a Zacuto viewer with my 5DII's but you still can't get always get the viewing angle you need.

Pete

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

My experience is just he opposite, you are providing a service to the same kind of clients and video/stills can complement each other and gain a lot more bookings if both are equally good. If you provide exceptional work, even by yourself, there's no harm in showing this and clients will approach you for what they see. Clients often want to book photo and video from the same company because they know the co-operation between the two will be without any issue the day of the wedding. I could imagine that if you advertise doing video and photo together all by yourself that this might scare clients off a bit, even if the end result is good, I at least would not have any trust in that if I could not see any finished demo's and even then I still would question how you can do 2 totally different jobs simultaneously. In that way I could understand why you don't mention anything about it.

On the other hand, my experience is that if you put weddings and corporate videos together on one site that could result in getting very little corporate bookings, a corporate client might consider weddings as amateur stuff. Both are also totally different markets with different requirements.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

We're veering off target and at risk of subverting the thread any further I'll just add: Noa, when clients make enquiries of you as a videographer they already have an interest in wedding video to some degree ranging from maybe to wildly enthusiastic. But when they contact me as a stills photographer they usually have no interest or worse; they are pretty sure they DON'T want video - for all the reasons with which we are familiar whether justified or not.

It is the viewing of samples on a 50ins plasma screen in high def, on an Ipad3 and on a Galaxy3 smartphone which sparks their interest. Then they see how much variety is achieved with multiple cams. Then they are reassured by the compact form factor of the tools used. Then they are converts. And they can see from the scores of stills galleries on my site at any one time that stills coverage does not have to be compromised. In fact it can be improved as demonstrated in my note about prints from screen grabs.

I need to tackle how the mere mention of the V-word may put off some clients before they even contact me. And how to make short samples that reflect the documentary approach that I offer that also take into account the extremely short attention span of many initially casual browsers.

Pete

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Received my hotshoe adapter today and attached a rode SM4 suspension shock mount with my at897 mic and it's a perfect fit, it doesn't extend too high above the camera, looks like it is made for it. The mic only just barely stays out of the sony wide angle but luckily about a cm space left without it showing.
Also ordered a Beachtek DXA-5DA today, hopefully it will arrive this week and that will make the camera complete and once that is here I"ll post some pics. I decided not to add anything more to the camera, with the small hoodloupe attached to the lcdscreen its still a very small and portable setup, just the way I like it.

I most likely will be ordering a second cx730, they are still more then half the price of a xa10 until end of July, will probably pair that one with the Senheisser ew 100 eng g3 and that will complete my audio set and might get a second Beachtek DXA-5DA for this camera if the beachtek proves to be a good of good quality.
The 730 + the beachtek+ the sennheiser setup is about 100 dollar more expensive as one Canon xa-10 so I think that's a pretty good price for what you get.

I decided not to break my head anymore about what 2nd camera to get, will keep my xh-a1 just incase, (it's very difficult to get it sold unless you go really low in price) and will deal with the limitations of the small camera's. I've been using my dslr's for about 70% of the time the past 2 years anyway and they can be a real pain to operate in run and gun, much worse then the small sony's but I managed to get used to them as well and they have proven to be a very valuable asset in my gearbox. It's the combination of 4 camera's (2 dlsr's and the 2 Sony's) which will give me much more versatile results compared to just one expensive camera so I think they all are a very good investment in making more compelling wedding video's as a solo operator. It's just MUCH harder work to get there compared to when I was just using one camera years ago but I see it's all worth it as the responses I get on my videos have been very positive and the bookings are increasing as well so it finally pays off.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Like my demo on page one of this topic all my other demo's rarely hit the 4 minute mark, usually between 3 min to 3 min 30 and I try to pack as much as possible in there that reflects my shooting style. Standard ingredients are the steadicam, the slider, the shallow dof and I"ll add the vows or a short part from a speech to emphasize the sound quality and try to mix all that together to something that's visual interesting enough to keep their attention. I only have 6 demo's on my site and for each new (only a new one if it's better then an older one) I"ll remove an older and less good demo, based on google analytics I see that the first demo's are viewed the most and the last one the least so I put my best demo's on top. :) So more then 6 will hardly be watched anyway, for that I have a blog where I regular post some short footage about a venue, or just some funny stuff that happened at a wedding. The blog is very valuable tool for appearing in google for different video searchterms or especially venue's. I get a lot of clients that found me through a google search of their venue, usually also a link appears on the first page to a short video I did of the venue in my blog and that gets them interested, they then check my demo's and after that they contact me. :)

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

What type of bags are you all using to store the smaller handicams/dslrs in?

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Personal preference is for older M Rock slingbags for when being "self contained" is paramount, and one or more old Sony aluminum cases picked up on the cheap (used, sometimes like new), where I can drop "the box", and deploy from a secure or at least visible location. Old TRV900 boxes are prety good for the handycam size units, and something like the one for the old HC1/A1U is big enough to pack quite a lot of "toys", while still remaining compact.

I re-configure as needed for the particular situation, from small bags to multiple larger bags or cases.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

I love these small cams. In the last thirty years I have used everything from 3/4 inch Umatic through to Sony XDCamEX. I still have an EX1, wonderful camera. Over the last 18 months I have shifted to using 2 TM900s and more recently added a GH2 for all wedding work. It started at my own sons wedding, 18 months ago, I thought I would give the TM900 an outing with the EX1, amazing results in our local church, which is the darkest I have worked in for 30 years. Today I use only the small cams. The one major problem was attatching microphones etc, so I came up with a simple alluminium frame to take all the accesories needed for a wedding shoot, it is simply a couple of alluminium bars and 2 lock on handlebar grips. I was fortunate enough to have all the tripod fitting and attatchment brackets in the spares box. The camera can be slipped on or off the bracket in seconds, as can the bracket from the tripod.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

I do have a some older small camerabags that found a new home now :) but I"m looking for a easier solution to carry 2 small handicams on one not too big bag that I can keep on me most of the time. An alu case is a good idea to keep other gear in, I currently have a big camerabag, that looks professional but it's easy taken without anyone noticing. A bigger shiny alu case on the other had everyone sees you carrying outside :)

I"m also think getting 2 lightstands for the 2nd or 3rd small cam, I saw one that extends to 2 meter, weighs only 1,5 kg and is about 80 cm at it's smallest and it could carry 2,5kg. Seems perfect to get high angles and very easy to transport.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

That's a great setup you have Colin, that"s what I"d call a multifunctional rig and still compact enough. I"m looking at an even smaller set up as I need to be able to move quickly and take all my equipment in one go. The cage you have would be ideal in more controlled situations.

Since you have first hand experience, if you'd compare imagequality and lowlight (and how clean the image is at high gain values) of the tm900 to your EX1, is there a big difference in favor of the ex1? I"m not talking about shooting resolution chart or doing any scientific test but just your first impression when you watch your footage on a big HD screen.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Terrific difference in low light performance. The EX1 wipes the floor with most cams out there, but. I have never been a great worrier over low light conditions, never considered it a problem. At the reception 1 or 2 lights are used, as and when needed. TM900 mixed with EX1 here All the shots, bar the main shots of B & G in the church are TM900, note the shot of the girl singing, she was in one of the darkest areas of the church. I deliver in file format, an mpeg2 1920X1080 50p for replay in a supplied media player, looks absolutely amazing, excellent on SD DVD as well. These small cams are way more than adequate.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Actually, that's one of the things I worry about the most, if you do weddings fulltime, camera's that perform well under lowlight are just essential. Most of the time I need to work with what I have and a big cameralight is also not an option, not if you want the guest to look away.

I was very surprised about the performance of my little cx730 in low light, it could even keep up with my f1.4 dslr lenzes at 1600 iso and that is remarkable, that's why I was curious to know how much better a ex1 would do, can't image it would be that much better, that would mean it would wipe the floor with a dslr combined with a f1.4 prime? Those small handicams would definitely have to use more gain to achieve the same as light sensitivity compared to a ex1 but I really like to see a side by side view of both camera's at comparable noise levels and very high gain values. I do know my cx730 can see better in the dark then a sony fx1000 and has less grain and more colour since I compared both, the fx1000 is no 1/2 inch chipper but is already considered a quite light sensitive camera.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Where the parts in church filmed in 50P? I just ask because I see interlacing "artifacts" at 01:20 when you zoomed out and a bit later as well? I haven't tried the 50P option out yet as my NLE (an older edius version) does not support it. Have been using 50i untill now, if I find more time I will try the 25p option but I fear the camera might loose focus faster in that case. 50i however, for the 2 weddings I did so far with the cx730 looked very good, on dvd, blu-ray and web. I always make a project in 25p in edius 5.51 as a lot of my material is from the dslr that shoots in 25p, I edit all footage native and then export to a hqavi file that I use in tmpgenc authoringworks and going to blu-ray and dvd does not show any interlacing when viewed on a hd lcd screen. Once I upgrade to the new edius 6.5 soon I will try the 50p option out to see what gives the best overall results.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

The above clip was encoded for youtube from 1080i. It was shot last year, before I decided to go the full the 50p route.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Hi Noa

Colin is 100% correct and no, you shouldn't be worrying so much about low light conditions. Our biggest fault withe weddings is to get over technical with the footage. You fellow videographer here might be able to spot where you have lost a bit of IQ but the client will not even notice it!! She is more concerned about how pretty the bridesmaids look and how beautiful the occasion was! We become way to obsessed with technical perfection instead of concentrating on telling the story...stunning image quality might impress the posters on DVInfo but the bride really couldn't care less. I have footage at some weddings that brides absolutely rave about and I'm horrified with the IQ result.

Chris

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Well put Chris, I agree100% with your comments above

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

The reason why I find a low light capable camera so important for weddings is that for the first time in years I have been able to capture footage I never could have done before, I always used a videolight with my xh-a1 as that was the only way to get usable footage but I never could get any footage from the guests at very dark venues without them squeezing their eyes or looking away and giving me an annoyed look.

When my first dslr arrived it was a blessing being able to capture candid footage of people acting naturally not even knowing I was there, so for me these low light capability is not a "technical" issue we videographers get too excited about, it's a function that I feel I can't do without anymore.

If I knew the panny would produce a sharper image then my sony but the sony was cleaner at high gain values being able to get better low light footage, I'd choose the sony without a second thought. A lot of weddings I do have very dark venues and being able to capture footage without adding light is essential to me in order to keep that atmosphere, to capture the footage as if you are there again, the cx730 at least has proven the last 2 weddings I did with it (as long as you keep the lens wide and don't zoom in, but for CU's I use my dslr anyway), it can perform under under these conditions and only when it gets really extremely dark, like with a first dance, where they kill all the lights and you only have candles on the table providing background light, only then I"l activate the build in videolight the sony has to get the footage I need, as I don't have another choice.

I have seen videos here where videographers add lights at the reception or at the venue to get better footage but that would be "not done" in my country, couples often want to have a "dark mood" and not a videographer that doesn't have the equipment that can't handle that situation. We have one venue here known for the fact that they only use candles to light the room, nothing else, imaging using a videolight or lights on a stand, you just can't and you, and the couple, will be very happy knowing you do have camera's that can cope in these circumstances.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Hi Noa

Less stress about being able to ger pristine video in a dark cave and more shooting!!

What you consider grainy and not even worth putting on the timeline, brides will rave about!! I did a wedding a lot time back with my 1/6" chip cameras and an old halogen video light (20w) which died half way thru the dancing!! The groom (guys are normally more technical) raved about how awesome the dancing footage was despite the fact that I almost shot it in the dark!!!

I did speeches this year at a reception where the groom point blank refused to let me use the video light!! I called him over to show him the dark image on the camera...his comments ??? "Perfect..I love it"

I'm STILL however trying to establish a light that will NOT offend people ...This time I'm thinking maybe a boom light stand directly over the top of the lectern (all our speeches are done from one position) and then pop in a single CFL lamp and either bounce it on the ceiling or into an umbrella!!

Chris

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

It seems you have a more forgiving audience then what I have to deal with :)

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Noa, light is our friend, there are times when you will need to use light, regardless of the cameras you use. Ask yourself this, would you rather shoot on a nice bright day or, a drizzly, cloudy day, which resulting footage would you prefer to watch!! Last weekend I shot a reception in a large function room in an old manor house, not a window in the room, and very low lighting, The top table was positioned above the sunken dance floor, with the guests tables down on the dance floor. The only position I could get a decent shot of the speeches was from the stage at the other end of the room, about 100 feet from the table. I set up 2, Z96 lights (diffused) on stands, at an angle iether end of the top table. The result, a perfect shot, well exposed, perfect colour and no noise whatsoever. The same with the first dance, a light positioned in 2 corners of the dance floor, problem solved. Lights should be as high on the equipment list as mics, tripods etc. I shot for a while with DSLRs, even with fast lenses, I would always use a light to lift colours and to enable me to shoot at a lower ISO. Good, modern lights are small, easy and quick to set up. An absolute must for event work. In over 30 years I have never had a problem with any client regarding the use of lights, if they want to hear their voices I use radio mics, if they want a better shot in the dark, I use lights.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Hi Noa

Not really..just sensible shooting..I would never attempt to film a black cat in a dark cellar at midnight. As Colin says it's all about using light .. My 2nd shooter will go and do a bridal prep and afterwards she will comeback and tell me how bad the lighting was..I can do and do the same shoot and get really nice footage. However I firsly use available light to my advantage and I'm also not scared to clamp a 6 x power LED light onto the camera. In fact at receptions the light goes on the camera before the reception even starts!! If I need it, it's there....It's amazing how just a tiny bit of light on a couple's face can spice up footage...in fact at my last wedding the photog was using a video light as he said a flash just lights up everthing like a football stadium and ruins the mood..a tiny LED light keeps the background lit only by ambient light stunningly lifts exposure on faces. I wouldn't do a reception without one!!

Sure I can use the GH1 with a 45mm F1.7 lens that would set me back over $1000 or I can snap a light on my Panasonic HMC and use that.

Chris

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

People often choose a venue because of it's "atmosphere" and that always translates into dark places here, just like that place I mentioned with candlelight only. There is a reason why canon 5dIII and sony fs100's are so popular, not only because they can shoot wonderfull images but because they can shoot in near dark. Just crank up the iso real high, close down your iris a bit so you have a bit more dof to work with and you are good to go with these kind of camera's, if my budget would allow it, both camera's would be in my gearbox already. I will capture an event like it was, not how perfect I can make it because then I would be flooding it will light, like in a studio. I can capture an event like I can perceive it with my eye with my dslr and even the cx730, only when I have no other option I will switch on the light of the cx730 and that would typically be a first dance when they kill the lights almost completely.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

See, even the photog knows that adding too much light will ruin the mood :)

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

Noa,

Here is a highlight that was shot with the mix of the CX550v, and in this teaser, I used 80% of the small camera shot. You can see the small camera on a light stand while they were doing their first dance.

Re: Shooting weddings with small handicams
 

This is where a SMALL LED light with a dimmer comes in VERY handy... I see Manfrotto has just released a whole series of them, no doubt responding to all the cheap import lights out there - discovered the smallest one when it was in a Big Box advert! May look into them, as they claim to have 0-100% dimming, and pretty small light designs (12 LED with 1 AAA battery!), all the way up to bigger LED arrays.


I mentioned the DIRT cheap (barely over $16US from one eBay seller!) CN-560... got a chance to use it Saturday, and noticed that everyone was taking advantage of the extra light it brought - it allowed all the "consumer" guest cameras to get decent shots I guess!

The cake cutting was in a particularly dark area, and the "on camera" (actually on a bracket) light was PERFECT, although I actually had to crank it up - didn't see anyone squint, cringe, or try to run. I almost felt it was "too" small, but it did the trick at reasonable distances.

There are some good small lights that have dimmers, and for the low amount of investment, a couple of them should probably be in your "kit"... combined with the good low light performance of some of the small handycams, which can "make do" with just a "little" light boost, it opens up the options.