How do you deal with re-edits?
 

I wondering how other videographers deal with clients who want re edits because of a personal preference as apposed to an error. I have a bride who is delighted with her DVD but she wants to change one clip from bw to colour. The clip is less than 5 sec long but as we all know its not a simple click of a button. It takes hours of exporting, re-compressing, burning, re-packaging and post etc.

My contract stipulates that I charge for re-edits that are down to personal preference but I rearly get asked. My questions is; how do other videographers explain to clients the work involved and extra charges for re edits while keeping clients happy.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

Hi Ana,
I understand your dilemma...in the 4 years in business, we have done ONE re-edit for a client. In our contract, we used to say "additional changes or editing...yadda yadda yadda is an extra $ per hour with a two hour minimum"

The ONE time we were asked to make changes, I did not charge them. It's not worth leaving the customer with a bad taste in their mouth. Now, my bride's requests were like yours, just a couple of simple, quick changes. I did point out to her that per her contract changes were an additional charge, but that I would do it this one time as a favor. If she had come to me with a list of demands, I probably would have been quick to point out (and stick to) our editing rate, and she probably would have been quick to change her mind.

I understand all the recompress time, burn time, etc. is a thorn in a busy wedding schedule's side, but just tell her you'll make the changes, and fit them in when your schedule allows (within reason of course)...she already has a finished video for now, so it shouldn't have to be a rush job that you are pushing other things off for.

It's just worth it to keep brides happy to me...she loved her video, recommended us to her friends, and gave us a great review on our Wedding Wire profile. She probably would not have, if we had charged her for the simple changes.

BTW, we don't even have an extra editing option in our contract any more. We have a clause that says they surrender complete creative editing control to us, and don't even put the idea of making changes in their head. If ever anyone wants changes, we deal with it on a case-by-case basis.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

Hi Katie,

Thanks for the advice and as you've mentioned I also know that I will end up making the changes and not charging. However I do want the bride to understand its no small thing.

This is what I have in my contract:
Your satisfaction is our primary goal. That said, you, the client, acknowledge that the finished product is a creative work, and as such, artistic license will be used in the filming and editing of the video. Creative aspects such as shooting and editing style are at the discretion of the company. Changes to the finished product will result in additional charges not allowed for in the contract.

Giving the option of a free re-edit I think most couple would make some changes. I would like to have a nice way to phrase that this isn't simple. Its outside what was agreed, it takes extra time and therefore extra money. It’s hard to rap it up in a nice little sentence!

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

Hi Ana, I too had the same experience when I started in this business, the bride wants to delete a clip where I shot her hand with her engagement ring on, she said her hand looks dry and that she forgot to put on a lotion. That's just one of the many scenarios.

What Im doing now before I mail the DVD's to my client is that I invite them to my place and let them preview their video on a TV monitor that is hook up to my work station. I did explain this on our first meeting that prior to burning it to DVD they have to view it first and if there are clips they want deleted, I can cut it at that very moment. Their job is only to tell me what clips they don't want thats it.

Ever since I did this I have no more issues of brides calling me to do re-edits.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

So Rickey, you view the whole film with every client ?

Wow ..

I could never do that.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

In my opiniion never ever do this...You are opening a whole can of worms, they think they are editors when you do this...The whole scenario changes... All you have to do within reason is fix what they want, it takes no real work ! cmon.. They will bad mouth you for sure, happened to me...

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

I understand keeping the client happy, I understand making a change before it's compressed burned folded ironed and put away but I also understand I am running a business and my time is all I have.
Although this happens more often on corporate work than wedding work my solution is this. I figure out the number of hours the work is going to take. As we all know NOTHING in this business is push one button and it's done nor is anything easy peasy. If I figure the job is going to take 4 hours I may very well cut them a deal and only charge them for 2 but I will charge them. If you don't clients "might" try to take advantage of your generosity. I know it's hard to believe but there are people out there like that. Well maybe not where you live but they are where I live.
Folks the main thing is this. Unless you have a 9 to 5 and are doing this for fun and not the money you are running a business and no business can succeed and be a long term entity by giving it away. Do it for one and pretty soon everyone knows about it and they're all clamoring for the "deal".
Look, how you run your business is up to you but I've been running businesses for 45 years and I found out the hard way, when you tell the client "it's free" you have no one to blame but yourself when you run out of money before you run out of month.
Your business, your choice!

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

Wow that's an impressive service ricki...I hope your clients appreciate it! I don't think it feasible for me simply because my customers are nationwide and I think it could end up spending much more time on the editing process.

I know this is a common enough seninaro, the problem I find is that couples think you press a button an it all pops out onto DVD. So if you’re charging extra they get annoyed because to them its only a simple small thing. I'm looking for a nice way of explains the extra time involved without blasting them with techno terms.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

No, I don't watch with them. I let them view how long their video is usually around 60-90 minutes long. At the end they will just tell me if everything is okay or may need some cut.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

This is exactly what it all comes down too. I think if I get into a habit of doing this kind of thing for free where does it end...my time is my income! I think I have to try and help clients understand the processes involved so they understand why it’s extra.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

Bad mouth? Not in my case... in fact I got more referrals from them and good reviews too. I hear couples while watching their videos laughing and making comments on every scene, and at the end they tell me how they appreciate how their videos was made, and that they just want some scenes deleted, again I reiterate that their job is only to cut scenes they don't want on their DVD's, and that doesn't change anything.

In my area, my clients like what Im offering and it's good for me too, cuz I don't have to deal with re-aligning the chapter markers, re-compression, re-authoring, re-burning, re-packaging and re-mailing, easy for everybody, now if they cannot come to preview their video, than that scenario of adding fees apply.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

I offer no re-edit at all to clients unless I have made an error on titling or similar. All clients have seen examples of m work before they book, so they know exactly what they will be getting. I am quite happy to offer them BW or slomo clips for example if they request them in advance, but not after the edit is finished.

My contract states that 'all editing decisions will be mine alone, in accordance with examples of my work that they have seen. Any variations or specific requirements will only be accommodated if agreed in advance.'

As others have said, once clients get the scent of possible personal change of editing choices, you will never hear the end of it. In the OP's case, the few seconds of BW is probably worth it at no charge as it is a simple request, not a demand for control, so will give you brownie points. Changes just for the sake of it should be heavily discouraged, in the same way that a portrait painter would object to a client making suggestions. if they don't like your work they should have booked someone else!

Roger

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

Let me clarify something. IF you do decide to do some sort of re-edit for the client and decide not to charge them for it, do an invoice anyway. Put the number of hours and the hourly charge for those hours along with the total charges including any "discount " you might have offered (I HATE the word "discount") and then across the invoice in big bold letters mark it NO CHARGE! Why? First, you need to make the client understand that there would be a charge and what it would be and that YOU as the business owner made the ultimate decision to give them the work for NO CHARGE! Second, why NO CHARGE and not FREE! Think of the connotation of the words. In the minds of most people FREE means not worth anything where as NO CHARGE means the product and or service has a value and they are receiving it at NO CHARGE!
Like I said before, your business, your choice but for all my years in business I have NEVER given anyone anything for FREE except maybe a cold! Even FREE advice is worth exactly what you pay for it in almost every case.
Just sayin'!

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

Was this advice free. . .?



-----------------------------

Joking of course.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

+10 roger, for sure thats what happens

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

I like this idea...I'm going to end up do the work so at the very least I want the extra hours I'm putting in for free to be recognised!

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

My routine is similar to Rickey's. When I complete my edit, I upload a Teaser video and email it to them, and invite the couple (and also close family/friends) around to my house to view their main feature in an afternoon. I'll get them tea and coffee and popcorn and try to give it a 'opening night/movie premiere' feel. So far the biggest group I've had arrive is six (couple + bride's parents + two bridesmaids). It's a great experience and builds rapport with clients and I think they are very likely to recommend me to others.

I stole this idea from another wedding video team in my city that filmed my sister's wedding back in 2007 and they do this for their clients.

I show their video via HDMI from my laptop as a 720p mp4, and then just give them DVDs unless they specifically ask for blu-rays (shhh!!). This way their first viewing is in sparkly high definition so it gets a good first impression.

Back when I used to charge a deposit before the day and full payment only when the final video is ready, I would also ask for payment on that day. I've since required full payment ahead of time so this is now a non-issue.

I let them know that this is their once chance to let me know if they want anything changed. So far the biggest change anyone has requested was simply removing a shot from the photo shoot where the bride is trying to clean some dirt off of her dress. I though it was cute and funny but they didn't see it that way as the dress was handmade by her family and is now stained. That was a fairly easy fix though.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

Hi Bernie

You are brave!! I don't re-edit and they don't get any sort of teaser or "proof copy" When their DVD's are ready I email them and once they have paid in full, I deliver the sets. I have never had to do a re-edit ever since adopting that policy. If it's something very special where they might want a different DVD apart from the normal already delivered sets, I'll gladly do it BUT they pay for my time and media.

I found a long time ago, if you show the client a "proof copy" they seem to feel obliged to find something wrong with it just to make you happy so I stopped that rubbish many years ago and my contract also states I have full editorial control. (I would obviously re-do disks if I made an error like spelling a name wrong)

Chris

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

I consider a small re-edit as an excellent money making opportunity, especially during the slack season.
I recently charged $250 for 4 small changes that took 2 minutes to make. I rendered while I was sleeping and burned 3 DVD copies at a cost of 90 cents. Delivered the copies myself the following day, got paid cash, went to the local tavern and life was beautiful.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

Sometimes the request had made my product better so no charge or the change was simple like add a shot of my brother. So easy to do and it doesn't effect the story. No charge. But a laundry list then it's $90 if DVD's have not be printed and $200 if they were.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

My # 4 video commandment written in stone: Re-Edit =Time and Time = Money

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

I agree with Don's take on it. Nothing is free.

I think wedding videographers are often not convinced that they are a "for profit" business.

You even convince yourself that charging for re-edits will leave a bad taste in the bride's mouth. No way, grow up and be a business. Will they take it for free, yes. But they will happily pay if you have portrayed yourself as a real business.

I had one bride request changes after dvd's were burned and delivered. I wrote a nice email to her just asking was she sure she wanted to spend that much for those changes? 2 days later she wrote back and said nah, no big deal, it's fine. And I did her sisters wedding the following year.

I always put in my contract that the final edit is my decision. FINAL. I post the prices upfront for re-edits. The same as I do with corporate clients.

As a matter of fact when I sit down with a corporate client to finalize a price I always tell them to add 8 hours of re-edits in the price and if we don't use it I will refund it. A contingency of sorts. That way they don't have to go back to their boss and approve more funds. I find that managers hate going back to their boss for more funds after the fact.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

Al, you said it best. I totally agree with you.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

Here is the term from my contract regarding re-edits:

Creative aspects such as shooting and editing style may be discussed beforehand, but final decisions are at the discretion of Unforgettable Multimedia.

One re-edit may be requested on the day of initial screening of the finished product. Additional revisions may incur additional costs.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

Hi Bernie

I still don't even go that far... Yes, I will discuss the shoot if they insist and want to include special segments but once it's on the card, it's my baby and they simply get the finished product at the end..no edits and no changes. Try telling the plumber who has just re-piped your laundry taps that you want the pipes to now come up on the left side and not on the right ..I think we had a TV ad about that too!

Inviting changes is still a bad idea as far as I'm concerned unless you add another pile of money to the price to allow for it. It's just not good business practice.

Chris

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

To change the conversation a little, what sorts of edits do brides actually ask for?

I think there tend to be three type of requests:
-- "I had a funny expression on my face in that shot; please change"
-- "There's not enough shots of x; please add more". "X" could be a particular part of the day, or a family member/friend, or even something like accessories or a car.
-- "I prefer different music"

It's mainly the third one that has the potential to wreak havoc, I think, though the second is no joy to deal with if you have to go back to your footage and search through for more shots.

So maybe more one trick, if you do offer clients the option of changes, is not cutting according to musical beats. Because if the client wants to change the music, you're in trouble.

What brides don't mention, I think, are things like:
-- that shot's too shaky
-- the focus in that shot is terrible
-- the colour grading doesn't match well between scenes.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

I agree with Katie to keep the customer happy. Of course here in Cyprus there is no such thing as a contract. Never made one (wedding contract) and as far as I know nobody does here. Give them the videos and get paid, that's it.

stelios

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

******I agree with Katie to keep the customer happy.*****

Run your business like a business and your clients will be happy.

The reason they can get unhappy is if the lines are blurred as to whether you operate like a business or not.
If you can't handle this situation without making the bride unhappy it's your fault for creating a hobby like business model that only serves to confuse your customers.

If you make it clear upfront that there is a charge for re-edits and what that charge is, there should be no problem.

Whether you're doing weddings are corporates you have to run your business like a business. Your customers will respect you for it.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

The hardest word in the English language (or any for that matter) to say, especially if you run a business, is NO! We're all afraid that if we say that word to a client we will make them mad, they won't use us, they'll bad mouth us and we won't get any more work. To that I say NO! First they might be mad for a minute but if you explain is clear, non-technical easy to understand terms they generally will get it and be fine with the answer. Hey everyone is going to push as far as they can to get the most they can for the least amount. Once you say NO in a nice way with an explanation it's liberating. I'm not saying to say NO to everything but when clients start asking for freebies, like re-edits or whatever it is they want if you don't learn to say NO you'll be saying YES for as long as you're in business. I remember before the internet, yes there was a before the internet, people would still be mad at you and tell other people, just not as quickly as today. My take is if it's a legit ask, I'm OK with them asking and I'm also OK with saying NO. I've known people thru the years that aren't in business anymore because they never learned to say NO. they literally ran themselves out of business. One of the reasons I've been self employed for 45 years is I learned a long time ago to say NO when needed, be it a wedding client or a fortune 100. Sometimes ya just gotta know when to say NO!

Meet me in Chicago and we'll put together a protest!
NO MORE FREEBIES!!! ;-)

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

Don you are so right after all!!!

stelios

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

Correct as usual Don. Yep If you keep saying yes, soon you will also be saying yes to the question "Did your business fail?"

Adrian? Are you kidding about what edits bride's want? They have zero edit skills and ability so they are not going to ask you anything technical or complain about anything technical. It will be something as simple as "My dad's in a wheel chair so please get some footage of him arriving in the taxi" I think if you DID find a bride you actually was a pro editor she would have already organised for someone in her industry to do the shoot and give her the raw footage.

My main reason for stopping re-edits was a bride who spent 3 straight days with me (8 hours at a time) with all her complaints written on 8 pages of paper. It even ranged to "my hair is out of place, cut that out" and "my husband is touching his nose, it looks like he is picking it...cut that out" .. That was many years ago though!!

Chris

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

I skimmed the thread so forgive me if this has already been said...but am I the only one that screens everything on Youtube or Vimeo for my clients and receives approval before creating the DVD's? I thought that would be pretty standard practice but I suppose not! In my opinion, that's how we work with all other corporate clients, so why wouldn't weddings be the same?

I provide up to 2 rounds of revision on any edited portion. Once it's approved by the client from the Youtube screening, that's it! No more changes after I send the DVD's. I've never had a DVD come back. But I do make revisions all the time for clients.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

Hi Andrew

I upload the ceremony on YouTube but they only get the link with their DVD's. Do you really upload ALL the edited video onto youtube?? So there could be easily 1 -2 hours of footage for them to approve??

I still think that if you give them a preview copy (a trailer is something totally different of course) you are inviting them to find fault with it. It also takes a lot of effort to have to render to MP4 for YT and then MPEG2 for the DVD's ...that's double work!!

Chris

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

I love the fact that you would think a Bride hired you because she saw your talent and skills and loved your creativity.

Yet you don't believe she would trust you with the final edit. The bride has put her faith in you , but youlack the confidence to run with it.

That's kind of bi-polar.

None of my clients would allow me to post anything on youtube or any other site anyway.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

why not? I think it is a great way to advertise your work.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

I work with a lot of sensitive content. Pharmaceutical etc. Lots of confidentiality agreements.

It pays well but it sucks when you think of making a demo reel.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

I always put the musical video (3-4 minutes) on YouTube, unless I have strict instructions from the couple not to.

stelios

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

I have various segments of various weddings on YouTube so clients can see how I approach the preps, photoshoot and reception segments. However, like Stelios, each bride also has their ceremony uploaded and shortened to under 15 minutes and I embed that on a private page within my site for them so they can show overseas family and friends. If they don't want it made public then I simply make it unlisted. I have had one couple that wanted the video removed as hubby was an undercover policeman which is fair enough. Most couples are delighted to have a bit of their wedding that they can send a link to friends or embed into Facebook.

Even my samples on the site are still uploaded initially to YouTube and then I run Video Lightbox on my samples page which calls the video from YouTube and makes it look pretty.

It is a pretty good way to get exposure ..I used to host all my own clips on my host server but YouTube hosting is quicker and I started using them at the end of 2005 ...so far 84,000 brides have watched various clips so that must count for something!!

Chris

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

Chris,
It sounds like your solution keeps your cients off of you tube and on your site. Is that correct?

The last thing I would want to do is send my client to you tube.

Re: How do you deal with re-edits?
 

Chris when you do this with YouTube does the client get commercials in the front of the video?