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-   -   Enquiries (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-event-videography-techniques/521319-enquiries.html)

Steve Bleasdale January 29th, 2014 10:29 AM

Enquiries
 
Just had to post this still laughing.
Hi guys can you give me a price on your feature film! Love your work!
Hi yes can you give me a rough idea on times venue what you require?
Yes you won't be there long! Just film a bit of the prep not much you know! Then just film a bit of the ceremony not much you know! Then a bit of outside the church but let the photog do all that if you want a rest! Oh we need the speeches cake and if you want to stay till the first dance at 10 pm you can if you like!
Jeeez!!
Yes love you are talking about my top package at £1795!!
What!! My budget is only £500!!!
Hahahaha what he hell! F........ F you silly woman.
What's your best enquiry ha steve

David Barnett January 29th, 2014 11:08 AM

Re: Enquiries
 
I'm not sure I get your post?! Do you have your rates listed on your page? Are they pretty easy to find via the navigation menu? It doesn't sound like she's fully trying to lowball you or be a tirekicker, just that she wasn't aware of your pricing.

You may do really great work, be in demand, or use 2 shooters etc, but I did a L to US Dollar conversion & I think it comes out to $800. Kindof a low wedding video rate but I don't think its entirely absurd. You didn't really tell her to "F off" did you??

Steve Bleasdale January 29th, 2014 11:15 AM

Re: Enquiries
 
Are you serious read the post she just wants a few things filming then comes out with pretty much all day filming!!

Dave Partington January 29th, 2014 01:33 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
We've had them too Steve.

Remember (sticking tongue firmly in cheek here) all you do is turn up, have lots of fun filming their wedding, which remember you're getting to go to a wedding for free(!) and then give them the video at the end.

How could you possibly want more than £50 or so for doing that Steve? After all her brother had offered to do it for free, so £50 is a lot :D

I said tongue in cheek, but I've actually had that said to me by some one wanting a video!!!


[Edit to add] Oh, and if you do me this great deal I'll tell all my friends how great you were and you'll get lots of extra business! Yay!

Peter Rush January 29th, 2014 02:15 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
Hah - i occasionally get one of these - i politely wish them well and let them go. I never entertain bargaining, never offer discounts/midweek/out of season etc as far as i'm concerned filming a wedding on a weds in january is exactly the same amount of time and effort as filming on on a saturday in august.

Pete

Dave Partington January 29th, 2014 02:28 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Rush (Post 1829782)
i'm concerned filming a wedding on a weds in january is exactly the same amount of time and effort as filming on on a saturday in august.
Pete

...and in many ways it's harder and takes longer if the light is bad and you end up adding some noise reduction to the render time.

David Barnett January 29th, 2014 04:05 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Bleasdale (Post 1829762)
Are you serious read the post she just wants a few things filming then comes out with pretty much all day filming!!

OK, I gotcha. Yeah that threw me off as I was reading it, but then I thought you were more upset with her rates. I like how it's "only a little bridal prep" :"only a little ceremony (whatever that is??)" "only a little portrait session" and "only a little reception until 10pm"... Isn't that basically a full wedding shoot? Reminds me of the Jerky Boyz prank call "I'm only burned around the head, chest, neck, throat and breast area".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Partington (Post 1829775)

Remember (sticking tongue firmly in cheek here) all you do is turn up, have lots of fun filming their wedding, which remember you're getting to go to a wedding for free(!) and then give them the video at the end.
____________________________________________________________________________

[Edit to add] Oh, and if you do me this great deal I'll tell all my friends how great you were and you'll get lots of extra business! Yay!

I would scoff at the first one because how many people do you know would want to spend an entire day at somebody else's wedding they don't even know?! Let alone on their feet, running around without hardly a break, working hard and interacting with complete strangers.


The second one, ugggghhh, while there's some truth to it I have no idea how aggressive a sales pitch she's going to make for me, so it's not a huge factor. Would a mechanic change your oil for plenty of referrals?

Dave Partington January 29th, 2014 04:11 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
David, thats OK - I scoff at both ;)

Anyone who offers to get me lots of referrals by giving them a discount now immediately gets the following counter offer: You pay full price now and then I'll give you a rebate/commission for every friend you bring to me who also pays full price. Deal?

I wonder why there's no takers. Hmmm.... :)

Chris Harding January 29th, 2014 06:15 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
Hi Guys

That's why I have full pricing and what you get for your money on my website. Brides with a budget can then easily see if they can afford me or not.

Oh dear..the old discount trick! I simply tell them .."That's already my bottom price" "but you can pay less if we take a few events out of the package like the cake cutting and first dance" "that will save you a lot"

They change their mind quite quickly and pay the correct amount !

Chris

Steve Bleasdale January 29th, 2014 06:20 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
Nice one guys, I am glad it happens to others as I thought it was just Liverpool. What else annoys me also is that question? What discount do you give please?? Mmm ok I say to myself if I buy a camera and ask for discount he does not say ok pay me in 8 months time he wants the cash now for the camera because of the discount!! Thinking the same and that's how it should be! Ok love I say, here is discount but pay me cash now as I have done you a good deal!!! Or at least pay 50%!! What she says is, I have no money till next year can you hold the date for me without a deposit! Jeez some just don't get it do they! They want discount with no money! Ha well I suppose good clients make up for It hey lads !!

Chris Harding January 29th, 2014 06:51 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
Steve?

Also remember that a lot of ethnic brides have bargaining as part of their culture. They expect you to haggle and are usually quite put out if you refuse to budge on pricing. One of the reason I don't do them.

I guess others work on the assumption that if you don't ask for a discount you won't get one. You have to applaud them for at least trying to get a top package for the price lower than what you wouldn't even consider getting out of your chair.

Chris

Tim Lewis January 29th, 2014 08:10 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
When they ask for a discount, put the price up 10% each time they ask. They'll soon understand that bargaining in YOUR culture is different.

Steve Bleasdale January 30th, 2014 05:46 AM

Re: Enquiries
 
Cheers guys, booked a serious client this morning. Hi would you be available on the 24 July 2014?? My friend passed your name to me? Yes sure here are my packages!! I will have the middle one please prep to dance!! Cheers!!
Now that's better wish it was as easy as that!!! Cheers guys!!

Peter Rush January 30th, 2014 10:51 AM

Re: Enquiries
 
Truly Amazing - I''ve just had a guy on the phone who got me to outline my packages/prices and then came out with - 'well really I did want the full day but my budget is not more than £400 - what can you do?'

I would love to say 'good luck with that mate!' but I'm too polite

Pete

Matt Thomas January 30th, 2014 11:03 AM

Re: Enquiries
 
Would people say it's a good idea to state your prices online or not?

I would lean not to, just because if someone sees your prices online and they think it's too high they might just forget about contacting you all together but if you don't have your prices listed they may get in touch which you may be able to convince them to up they budget a bit.

Roger Gunkel January 30th, 2014 12:48 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
Matt, I prefer to have my prices on line as I hate the idea of spending a long time convincing someone that they want a video only to be told that they can't afford it when they get the price. At least I know that those contacting me are fully aware of what to expect and that I am not trying to hide anything or browbeat them into paying more than they want to..

Roger

Steve Bleasdale January 30th, 2014 02:26 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Rush (Post 1829880)
Truly Amazing - I''ve just had a guy on the phone who got me to outline my packages/prices and then came out with - 'well really I did want the full day but my budget is not more than £400 - what can you do?'

I would love to say 'good luck with that mate!' but I'm too polite

Pete

Jesus Pete the cheeky b....r. Is it just England or what? Blame him off gmtv ! get a bargain here there and every where haggle with everyone he was saying the other day.

Steve Bleasdale January 30th, 2014 02:30 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel (Post 1829896)
Matt, I prefer to have my prices on line as I hate the idea of spending a long time convincing someone that they want a video only to be told that they can't afford it when they get the price. At least I know that those contacting me are fully aware of what to expect and that I am not trying to hide anything or browbeat them into paying more than they want to..

Roger

I have tried both Pete/Matt, one year I was booking and thinking wow no-one asking for a bargain, then one year I did not put my prices on the web and got nothing but idiots but I did that because I did not have many enquiries, so I think the best way is prices on...Going back to that as I am sick to death of complete idiots to a degree. I really now study their e-mail, if it mentions how much are you I don't even reply, if they say are you available then I go for it.

David Barnett January 30th, 2014 06:05 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Thomas (Post 1829883)
Would people say it's a good idea to state your prices online or not?

I would lean not to, just because if someone sees your prices online and they think it's too high they might just forget about contacting you all together but if you don't have your prices listed they may get in touch which you may be able to convince them to up they budget a bit.

IMHO if you don't have your prices on your website, don't complain if they contact you yet can't pay your rates. Personally, I like to see it. I've checked out photographers pages after shooting with them, and their rates are all over the map, entry level to $4,000. I'd be a bit upset if I referred the $4,000 guy to someone I knew couldn't pay that.

Chris Harding January 30th, 2014 07:21 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
Hi Matt

I have all my prices on the website so brides can see the total range and whether it fits your budget. If I was a bride I would really hate to have to email/ring you for prices and find out you are way too expensive for me. To me if you don't list at least your price range eg: "Wedding Ceremony only from $800 and full weddings from as little as $1500" you are hiding something .... if you at least show your range then brides can see that they could afford you and it still leaves you room to convince them to go for a higher package.

Chris

Rob Cantwell January 30th, 2014 07:55 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
i have my prices up and i dont have packages really, if someone wanted say, just the ceremony we'd do a deal but mostly here they want you for the whole day (some even well into the night) so the price is the price and if i get someone asking whats my best price or how much for 'cash' I just ignore.

The best one i got was this girl had mailed and called a few times, asking was there any move downwards on the price, after saying no i thought that was the last I'd hear from her, but a few weeks on she contacted me again and said "i've got a quote here for the full day for €200!!!" I emailed back saying 'give me his name and i'll employ him myself!' needless to say I never heard from her again... LOL

Byron Jones January 30th, 2014 08:22 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
I am another believer in having prices posted online. Many people automatically assume no posted price equals too expensive. Oddly enough, sometimes a higher price can actually help with booking events because so many online "tutorials" on hiring videographers list the quality according to price ranges. They see a higher price and assume higher quality.

Dan Burnap January 31st, 2014 06:11 AM

Re: Enquiries
 
"Dan, we love your work and want to hire you but we've already spent nearly all our wedding budget on the photog, flowers, DJ, catering etc, can you do us a favour and discount your price by 50% and we'll book you right now?"

I found that just offensive for more than one reason.

Don Bloom January 31st, 2014 06:50 AM

Re: Enquiries
 
This has been a major topic of discusson for years.

Post or Don't post. Hmmmm.
Thought process...If I post my prices then they have all the information and there's no reason for them to call. I want them to call because some people really don't think that they can afford you but sometimes you can get creative for the client and adjust the work you do to fit the budget. IOW, maybe you don't do prep (and the B&G don't care about it if you do or not. Or you leave right after the Specialty Dances. Now keep in mind there are differences in the time line from country to country. In my area TYPICALLY the special dances (1st dance, father-daughter and mother-son) are one right after the other AND generally right after dinner so it can cut sometime off your day. These are just examples off the top of my head at an early hour. Use your imagination.

I DON'T post my prices. OK, more calls and you get a lot of people that have $500 or $600 or $700 for video and your fees start at say $1500. Your chances of convincing someone to sign up and spend 2 times the amount they budgeted (if they have it) are very small and come on guys...Do you really to work that hard to convince someone to hire you. Chances are they're going to be a complete PITA before, during and especially AFTER the shoot.

I did both. Not posted, then posted. I found the smartest thing I did was to post my prices like this...
Starting at $XXX.xx
That meant I would still get calls and I could justify prices whether over the phone or face to face.
Everyone's business model is different, try it one way and see what happens. If it's not getting the results then switch to the other way but keep in mind, regardless of what you do, you've still got to produce top quality work and treat the clients right. Posting or not posting prices isn't going to make you king of the hill or not. It's just a tool.

Kyle Root January 31st, 2014 07:08 AM

Re: Enquiries
 
Yeah a great on-going debate here for sure.

I've done it both ways - prices online and prices not online.

Right now, I'm in the "Prices not online" mode, because after watching the Ray Roman series on Creative Live, I realized I really need to be doing a custom quote for each gig. One of the things I wasn't really including was travel time and what not to locations, and some people are wanting me to drive 2 hours one way or longer even... and that means just not me, but the rest of my team as well (No way I'm doing a drive to a wedding as solo shooter in a city far away and with just 1 vehicle)

So my rates actually vary depending on the drive time and crew size and of course coverage desired.

And as others have noted, I want people to call and inquire so I can talk to them and get a feel.

My starting base is: 1-man, 2-camera Ceremony only coverage for $750 (on site up to 1 hour). I actually do a fair amount of those these days.

Peter Rush January 31st, 2014 07:39 AM

Re: Enquiries
 
I have my 3 main package prices online with a ceremony only package (filming from one hour before and up to one hour after the ceremony at same location) so I can advertise 'Packages from £XXX' Regarding travel I state that my package prices are for venues less than a 2 hour round trip from my postcode - any further then a travel surcharge will be added.

Pete

Chris Harding January 31st, 2014 08:24 AM

Re: Enquiries
 
Hi Pete

Each to their own of course but I find I get more genuine enquiries with up front prices .. my local prices include travel for specific geographical limits and then I also give a flat rate for our down South weddings which covers me for a motel and travel costs. It really gets a bit too messy when you start trying to charge by kilometre/mile and then have to cost in your actual travel time. Locally I cost in travel for a fairly hefty travel wedding based on venues well spaced. Any closer and I win and seldom have ones that go over my costed distances but they are easily covered for the closer ones. Like tomorrow is a win one with maybe 20 minutes tops to the ceremony, photoshoot in the same venue and reception is 5 minutes down the road!

Chris

Dave Partington January 31st, 2014 09:03 AM

Re: Enquiries
 
How many of you have time limits built in to some packages, especially the bespoke ones created when they wanted something a little different?

Example:

Couple 1: Oh we just want the ceremony and speeches filming.... the ceremony is at 12 noon and the speeches at 8pm. So you're going to be there for at least 10 hours from setup to end of speeches.

Couple 2: Oh we just want the ceremony & speeches, and since we don't get married until 3pm and we're having really short speeches at 5pm so can we have a big discount please? You're thinking this is maybe only 4 hours on the day (read on).

So, lots of time difference on the day but identical editing and supply of DVDs etc afterwards.

Now suppose couple 2 change their mind and make the speeches after the meal on the day without telling you, you've got to hang around another 2-3 hours, oh and then the speeches turn out to be 2 hour marathons as well.

Couple 3: Ceremony at 12noon to first dance at 7:30pm (yeah, right) but it turns out on the night they don't have it until after the buffet at 10pm. So again you're hanging round another 3 hours.

It doesn't happen every week, but it does happen. People call, try to minimise what you're quoting for, expect a special deal then you get project creep, could you just add this, oh and this isn't much could you just add that, no one thing is a big deal but all of a sudden you're in to a bigger package and not charging for it.

We all know that weddings don't run to time. It's easy to say "take the rough with the smooth it all averages out", but I found it happening more and more last year and it wasn't averaging out ;) Remember, this is a business not a hobby so giving away 3 or 4 hours of time for free was never really in the plan, or at least not my plan.

Peter Rush January 31st, 2014 10:37 AM

Re: Enquiries
 
Well said Dave - I posted a few months back about over-running weddings and a lot of members seemed to be in agreement about taking it on the chin (rough with the smooth so to speak). I actually find shorter weddings harder to film as their is more running about and in the end I film pretty much about the same amount of footage as a longer wedding. The resultant DVD will have the same number of chapters of the same length and will require the same amount of editing time so I quote this when people try and haggle because their ceremony is at 4pm!

What I do get often is on the day being asked to do guest messages, even though (and they've probably seen this on my website) it's an extra I charge for. To date I haven't had the balls to say 'that'll be £XXX extra'

Pete

Roger Gunkel January 31st, 2014 02:14 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
I have two prices, one for a video only and the other for video and photos.

As Dave said 'This is a business not a hobby', so as far as I am concerned I can film one wedding on one day, so why should I risk losing a full booking to film an hour or two for a far lower price? My speciality is doc style weddings, if they want a ceremony only, then find someone else or pay the full price.

Roger

Tim Bakland February 8th, 2014 07:11 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
I post a single price (only interested in doing full weddings and I don't really have any add-ons/take-aways as I pretty much work alone, don't do SDEs, photobooths, etc.). If they want to add a rehearsal dinner or something, that's one thing. Or if it's a big travel, but otherwise, one price. Currently $3750.00 in Boston market. (It's certainly above the average price, but is not the highest -- and I think I've carved out the right niche and price point.)

And listing it has helped pre-screen the annoying inquiries. (Like: "Could we save some money if we had you film a couple hours, and then had you go take a few hours off during photos and then came back"? -- that one always annoyed me to no end. As if we can just take hours off during a wedding shoot.)

Chris Harding February 8th, 2014 07:35 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
I had a couple book me yesterday and the discount question arose .."How much for cash ... what discounts do you offer" ... The bride to me was obviously a big red-faced about her hubby to be asking the question. I told him "Sure thing .. tell me how much you would like taken off the price and I will trim what I do on the package accordingly to suit" "I don't discount my prices but I'm happy to do less coverage for less money"

They paid the full price of course but I think that some people just figure if you don't ask you don't get. They said when they ordered their cake it started at $1400 and the vendor actually started dropping the price almost every 30 seconds (without them even asking) until it got down to $900!! Weird the way some vendors work. I wonder if any videographers intentionally inflate their prices and then offer massive discounts just to get the business ? "My full package is $5000 but since your wedding is 6 months away I can drop it to $3000 and also since you are nice people let's make it an even $2500 ..that's a 50% discount!" Of course your "normal" price was $2500 anyway.

I have seen a few ads hear from Photogs saying "Make me an offer for your wedding photos" ..Strange way to do business!!!!

I have always costed my weddings accurately and have a fixed price with no discounts.

Chris

Don Bloom February 8th, 2014 09:11 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
I've said this before but it is appropriate here.

A very good friend of mine who just happens to be quite wealthy once told me that when you lower your price you are lowering the value of your product or service and since you've dropped your price to what you feel it's worth in the first place then why not just set the price to the lower amount and save us all a bunch of time.
Listen no one is G*d for fifty or a hundred bucks BUT when you start dropping your price because they asked you have just decreased your worth and value and the worth and value of everyone else in your industry. Say you price and stick to it. the hardest word in sales to say is "NO" but once you stick to your guns you'll wonder why the hell you didn't learn to do it sooner.

Chris, I also did the same thing. Start taking off time or services. I don't think I gave anyone a discount for the last 10 or 15 years EXCEPT for current military. then I simply gave them my "military" discount and told them up front what I was doing and why. Going discount rate for them was 20-25%. I'm a veteran so I just had it in my heart to do it.
Anyway to those that ARE discounting........STOP IT! ;-)

Tim Bakland February 9th, 2014 08:17 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
One close friend of mine once said:
"If you have a quality product, raise your prices".
Good advice.

Adrian Tan February 9th, 2014 10:58 PM

Re: Enquiries
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding (Post 1831424)
I wonder if any videographers intentionally inflate their prices and then offer massive discounts just to get the business?

I think a lot of videographers do have padding built in to the prices. Maybe not massive discount, but still padding. Means you've got the possibility of offering discounts to wedding expo clients, offering bundled packages with photographers with discounted rates, and generally just sweetening deals.

Chris Harding February 10th, 2014 01:33 AM

Re: Enquiries
 
Hi Adrian

I think I would definitely apply heavy padding if I did Middle Eastern weddings here (which I don't) as they are not happy at all if a certain amount of bargaining doesn't happen. They probably know that you have padded the price anyway and it's purely their love of a good haggle that requires it to be done.

Problem is, if you show a padded price on the website and get the average bride who is happy not to bargain then they will either pass you up as you are higher than everybody else or they will think less of your worth if you immediately start offering huge discounts.

The only way to do this is to dual brand and have two websites with a classy one with no discounts and then "Adrian's Discount Videography Emporium ...we beat any advertised price!!"

I still rather stick to a fixed price and that's what the bride pays!

Chris

Rob Cantwell February 10th, 2014 07:29 AM

Re: Enquiries
 
I had this guy called yesterday, said he was ringing around, told me that the cheapest he could get for a small short event this Sat coming, was €150 but the vender was booked, next fella was €250, I was €300. He said he'd take the raw footage(which is a No No) if i'd drop my price!! I'm guessing he might have been the €150 guy!!
:) I wouldn't budge on my price
Yeah I often get the question, 'how much for cash?' or 'is that your lowest price' these days i have fixed prices well one price really, thats for a full day, i do offer a discount if people take my photography package too.

Steven Davis February 10th, 2014 07:38 AM

Re: Enquiries
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Thomas (Post 1829883)
Would people say it's a good idea to state your prices online or not?

I would lean not to, just because if someone sees your prices online and they think it's too high they might just forget about contacting you all together but if you don't have your prices listed they may get in touch which you may be able to convince them to up they budget a bit.


I have my starting prices on line Matt, that so far, has been a good compromise. I'm trying it out this year, last year I had everything online. Se we shall see.

Steven Davis February 10th, 2014 07:40 AM

Re: Enquiries
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Bloom (Post 1831431)
I've said this before but it is appropriate here.

A very good friend of mine who just happens to be quite wealthy once told me that when you lower your price you are lowering the value of your product or service and since you've dropped your price to what you feel it's worth in the first place then why not just set the price to the lower amount and save us all a bunch of time.
Listen no one is G*d for fifty or a hundred bucks BUT when you start dropping your price because they asked you have just decreased your worth and value and the worth and value of everyone else in your industry. Say you price and stick to it. the hardest word in sales to say is "NO" but once you stick to your guns you'll wonder why the hell you didn't learn to do it sooner.

Chris, I also did the same thing. Start taking off time or services. I don't think I gave anyone a discount for the last 10 or 15 years EXCEPT for current military. then I simply gave them my "military" discount and told them up front what I was doing and why. Going discount rate for them was 20-25%. I'm a veteran so I just had it in my heart to do it.
Anyway to those that ARE discounting........STOP IT! ;-)


Right on brother.

Danny O'Neill February 12th, 2014 08:20 AM

Re: Enquiries
 
We have a starting price on our website. This stops the shoppers who really only have £150 to spend and it also tells others they can afford us. No prices normally means expensive. Well, thats what people think. Sometimes we get people saying "But your website says you start from £1495 and you've quoted £1995" to which we reply "Thats for small local weddings, your 500 person indian wedding in Edinburgh is a little different" ;)

Custom quotes for each wedding would be a ballache for me. We have 3 tiers of pricing, small and local, small but travel and large with travel (we just dont get large local weddings). So thats 3 price lists, 3 packages. Keeps things fairly simple.

We also dont do hours, just all day coverage. We all know weddings dont run to time and how do you feel about asking for more money when things run late? Or how about walking away with half the day still to go when they say they dont want to pay? For us that would make the edit so much harder. So we always ended up staying anyway for free. Which frustrated us, so now we say its all day coverage. A great selling point and we get to choose when we finish. So we used to have some book us until 11pm but they would have done the first dance by 8pm and then have nothing happening for the next 3 hours. Our pricing also reflects the fact its all day, so basically we are permanently upsold on extra coverage.


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