Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

One method I might adopt for next season is to tape an audio recorder direct to the microphone handed to the people making speeches. A Zoom H1 might be a bit bulky and look unsightly on film so I'd use one of my small Sony recorders but what mic to use? I could use a lav mic and tape up the cable but time consuming and might look ugly, so I have seen little mics that plug directly into the 3.5mm socket but are any of them any good?

Also what tape to use? Gaffer tape would leave lots of gunk on my recorder and their microphone and I would imagine electrician tape might work loose so what do you guys use?

I should add that I will always tap into the house PA where possible but the last time I did this the mic they used had a s**t pop shield and had tons of breath pops

Pete

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

I use internal mics on a Yamaha C24 -- got the recommendation from Nigel and Noa. Does alright if it's held reasonably close to your mouth (I've posted some sound tests in another thread). The C24 is about the size of a Zoom H1, but looks slightly less bulky. I carry two, because often there's two microphones, if not more. Lasts the entire reception, 6 hours plus, continuously recording to 48kHz, on one Eneloop AA battery. The sample rate does affect battery life I think.

I like your idea of attaching a microphone to the recorder as well, but not sure if I'll implement it myself; seems like extra fuss and more power drain.

Method of attachment: I used to use gaffer tape, and no one complained about it. They complained about attaching the recorder in the first place, but not the method of attachment. I currently use three black hair elastics (you double them over mic + recorder or just recorder to tighten), but it does take a minute or two to attach. One big advantage, apart from leaving no marks: it's dead easy to access the on/off button on the microphone, or to change batteries, or to check if the recorder is still recording, by just moving the elastics aside. Also easy to remove at the end of the night, whereas gaffer tape sometimes requires you to find a pair of scissors or a pocket knife.

I've never tried plain velcro wrapped around recorder and microphone, but maybe that's a faster and more secure solution.

I think Noa used to use some sort of ingenious method involving a sheath of rubber for grip, and then velcro straps. I've always found that my hair elastics provide enough grip, though, with no rubber needed.

By the way, in terms of persuading them in the first place to let you do it... In general, DJs/MCs are pretty reluctant. Main complaints: interferes with frequency; looks ugly; awkward to hold and throws MC off their game; not necessary because plugging into our system is fine.

I think the complaints are more or less BS, even "looks ugly", because a normal person wouldn't notice it's not just a regular microphone. But even if there's some truth in looks ugly, clean sound outweighs the aesthetics. (I've seen wedding videos where someone taped a whole wireless transmitter + microphone to the roaming mic, and that did look dodgy. But a Yamaha kind of blends in.)

My second shooter has recently started saying to them, "We don't like it either, but we've learned from bitter experience we need it," and for some reason having that concession that "we don't like it either" seems to get people on side, as well as the conviction that you do need it. Plus, it's true. There have been plenty of weddings where the taped recorder turned out to be the best sound source.

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

A lot of what is referred to as gaffers tape is not gaffers tape at all, its duct tape.

Genuine gaffers tape leaves as good as no residue unlike duct tape.

A mic with a recorder attached is awkward for the person to hold and comes at the worst possible time for them what with nerves an' all. Also it looks dreadful in head and shoulders photos of the speakers so you are not going to win any fans among the stills boys - yes it REALLY IS a big deal despite what you might think about the importance or otherwise of stills coverage of the speeches. Fact: there are always several spreads of photos in the album covering the speeches and this at the clients request. You will impact on the photographers scope to sell more spreads.

Last resort? OK.

I do have one of those little plugin 3.5mm mics. I just use it with a GoPro in conjunction with a skeleton case to get better audio from the gopro with which to sync its track. Its neat in that it turns right-angle so no need for wires. I've never bothered testing it as its track never makes it into the final edit but for £14 its worth a punt:

OLYMPUS NOISE REDUCT.Microphone ME-52W: Amazon.co.uk: Office Products

p.s. I have a feeling that the Gopro 3 and 4 have a smaller socket than 3.5mm so you'd need an adapter in that scenario.

Pete

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

duplicate post

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

I think we had this discussion before, also about the recorders ruining the photogs shots during speeches, but this works 2 ways, we need decent audio, the photog decent photos. If there is no other way to capture audio I will tape a recorder onto the handle, even if the photog would object to it because no way I will risc coming home with inaudible audio. I use some cut out rubber from a bicycle inside tire in the shape of the recorder and then use velcro tape to strap the recorder to the handle, the rubber piece is placed between recorder and handle and prevents the recorder from sliding of the handle and protects it against scratches as well which dj's like :)

but will do some tests with these hair elastics Adrian was referring to, my velcro tape has on occasion got loose a bit while elastic should stay put.

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

That's a yamaha c24 :)

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Yep, Yamaha, not Tascam!

Ok, here's some photos showing the Yamaha in various positions.

Best case is if they're holding it with their hand wrapped around both recorder and microphone, with recorder turned away from the audience or side on. Worst case is if they're holding the bottom of the microphone with entire recorder exposed, and pointing the red light towards the audience.

Definitely it's not ideal, but I don't think the average person knows that it's not part of the microphone.

Gaffer (Nashua) tape used in this case.

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

I'm going to try and find a small enough recorder that it makes sense to possibly attach it to the bottom, like when they convert a corded mic into a wireless.

Otherwise, yes, gaffers tape is nice, maybe with a spandex sleeve over the whole thing. The key is to not have the recorder moving relative to the mic. That's key for handling noise, but also the person holding it. As an MC, I've dealt with this 2 or 3 times and quickly got over it.

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

I have done that. The audio sound quality is excellent. First I use an Olympus. Then I switched to a Sony. The sound quality is even better. Only most DJ won't like that you attached something to their microphone.

I put together the result in my blog.

Attaching Voice Recorder to Handheld Microphone to Capture Audio | L.A. Color Pros Blog

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

I think we had this discussion before .....

As I say, last resort. I'm surprised that the hair elastics are strong enough especially if the mic's body tapers off. I tried hair elastics in a shock absorber for a shotgun mic and they were useless.

You can get elasticated velcro straps. They would probably be more reliable. I have non-elasticated straps but they aren't really man enough to stop an audio recorder sliding about on a mic body - which is where Noa's use of in effect an antiskid barrier comes in.

You can get wide reels of black elastic from dress-making shops. Its really cheap to get a seamstress to run up small stuff. You could get one to make up a few continuous loops rather like rubber bands but wider and shorter. I had a seamstress modify some old mobile phone pouches for audio recorders, works great.

Pete

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

That C24 looks bulky to me - not much smaller than a Z1 - My little Sony recorders would look neater only the inbuilt mic is very poor so I'm now looking for a good 3.5mm mic to plug in directly as Peter suggested.

Here's my recorder:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...rch_detailpage

And a mic something like this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-ECM-DS7...ony+microphone

Pete

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

The audio from this method is exceptional. It really is! Sadly though - it's probably not professional looking enough.

I've had a few run-ins with venues who are unhappy with this request.

I have just wound up and taped a regular lapel mic without adding too much extra bulk.

I recently found that the recorders came with these little pouches and I've a plan to sew some elastic fabric loops on to them at top and bottom and then just sliding it onto the house mic. Would be quicker/easier and perhaps slightly better looking than tape?

As I said, I have faced resistance on this method and so, on advice I purchased an XLR splitter and xlr-Jack (plus adapter). The idea being to intercept the input from the house wireless reciever into the amp/desk.

Problem being that thus far - venue management know nothing about the sound setup and are unable to show me to the sound setup nevermind point out the correct input to me!

Some people have mentioned (including venues) about tabletop placement for recorders. It's been my experience however that this method is not even really any better than on-board camera audio.

Also - here's a link to my recorders - I'm very pleased with them.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/925994-REG/sony_icdux533blk_icdux533_digital_flash_voice.html

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

I also found this - plugged into my little Sony recorder would be a small package

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...DZRHH405RRJQ1P

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

I have however just reminded myself of a recent wedding where the father of the bride shouted 'can everyone hear me?' and when the answer was 'yes!' he said 'well I don't need this then' and put the microphone down on the table and carried on with his speech!

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Here's a sample of audio from my recorder plus lav mic on the house mic.

https://soundcloud.com/clive-mclaugh...ecorder-sample

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Ha, brings back a memory of a groom giving his openingsspeech in a venue and it was a very small group of people, maybe 50 in the room. I had taped my c24 onto the handle because I couldn't find a way to get a feed from the mixer and the dj was not there yet and the venue manager didn't know how it worked and the soundspeakers where build in high into the ceiling.

When he started talking the soundsystem didn't work so he also said: "do you understand me without the mike?" and just when he wanted to put it away I ran to him and said the mike had a recorder which was my only good soundsource so he then just talked into the mike all the time, eventough nothing was coming out of the speakers, I got great sound though :D

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Hey Gentlemen,

I can provide some input here. I have run live audio at corporate events for many years as well as audio for video. The method you guys are discussing is way too risky for me to consider. First, you are micky mousing the two devices together and that can fail. Second, the human error factor is huge, there is a lot of buttons on most portable recorders that could get pushed inadvertently. Third, I monitor live recorded audio at all times and you can’t do that here. This set up would scare me to death. Too much room for failure plus you don’t even know if it is working until after the fact.

I have commented in the audio forum many times about the need for ALL recorded live audio to be backed up by an independent system. I never understand it when some guy posts “help, I have an audio disaster from a live event I can’t repeat”. If one of you was to use the method above as your only quality source you will have a disaster at some point. There are too many other good ways to record good audio without trying this one.

Also, some of you mentioned lapel mics. Lavaliere mics are designed to pick up audio from the lapel, not an inch away from the lips. If you have a good lav mic taped up there and one of your amateur speech givers goes boasting into it while swallowing the handheld (we have all seen it) even your AGC will not save you from the over modulation.

I probably have an advantage over some of you because my knowledge of sound reinforcement is reasonably extensive. That means (if possible) I am going to get one of my sources at the mixer and I know sound mixers.

Again, I monitor all live recordings and I back up ALL live recording systems. Taping a portable recorder to a handheld mic is something I would never consider.

Steve

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Sorry guys, i've skimmed through all the responses but still looking for an answer.

What is the best way to tape the recorder to a microphone then? Gaffa tape? does that not leave residue?

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Steve, I think you've said in the past that you don't do weddings or don't do weddings any more.

So I'm not so sure you may fully appreciate the circumstances peculiar to our market.

By all means aim high but at the same time be flexible and roll with the inevitable punches that this market dishes out.

If you cannot get a lav on the person and you cannot get a recorder placed nearby, and you cannot get a feed from a board, and you cannot get the budget for an assistant, and you cannot get access to knowledgeable or helpful venue staff etc etc what exactly are you supposed to do? Give up? Believe me the brides would far rather you deliver a less than perfect video than simply shrug your shoulders and announce that it wasn't possible. There are plenty of other vendors who will deliver to a standard more than acceptable to the bride.

If you have a good lav mic taped up there and one of your amateur speech givers goes boasting into it while swallowing the handheld (we have all seen it) even your AGC will not save you from the over modulation

That is seldom if ever an issue. The issue is rather that the speech-giver, nervous, unused to using a mic, and having forgotten the rushed bit of coaching you may have been able to offer, is far more likely to wave the mic around holding it a waist height one moment and using it as a pointing device towards the guests the next moment, and then deciding they don't want it and putting it down :- (

Film and TV people and even corporate events people would be appalled at all this but if you can't stand the particular kind of heat you get in the wedding kitchen you don't have to be in there :- )

Pete

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Yes, James, Gaffer's tape.

Steven, the method described here is a sort of last option, or at least it should be. For instance, no access to the main sound system being used, so recording out of the mixer, or if the speakers in the ceiling are hot garbage, or if there will be many people speaking.

For instance, I just had a wedding with a lot of noise coming from the other side of a partition wall, so on camera or in front of the speaker mics weren't a good option. The DJ was... unhelpful when I requested plugging into his gear (despite the fact I clearly knew more than him). So, with 5 people expected to speak, I don't have enough pocket recorders or wireless mics to rig everyone (and a 6th person surprised us).

So, I setup recorders at the three hot spots where they were expected to stand when speaking, then taped my small wireless lav transmitter to the bottom of the mic, with the lav mic running up the body.

That was the only way I was going to get backup audio in case something went wrong.

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Quite agree peter - The main reason I created the OP is that I have 2 weddings at a local venue coming up next month and they have an ancient mic that seems to have a knackered wind and pop filter (I think it's an SM58) and so sounds pretty awful - plus the PA they use has no line out that I can tap into, not that I would want to with all the breath popping it would record. I normally have table top mics at this venue but I might also use this method to trial it out :)

Steve all my recorders have control lock so I can lock all the buttons to prevent accidental pressing.

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

You may have the advantage of knowledge but not experience actually doing many weddings, corporate events are easy, I never had a issue capturing audio at those, there is always a professional sound and light team there and I just let them know in advance what I need, if they are hired by the same client that hires me then there is no discussion.

Weddings otoh are a different kind of animal, you run against many obstacles and knowing audio doesn't guarantee you will get a clean and reliable audio feed. Just to give an example, last wedding I did get a good audio feed from the mixer, the dj was very helpful, we tested everything in advance and all was ok, once the speeches start I check up on my recorder and see I get no signal, I look at the DJ and he only shrugs his shoulders. Luckily I had a backup recorder pointed towards a soundspeaker, that sounded worse but still much better then my incamera audio.

I know your advice is well meant but it doesn't work like that at venues where you have to shoot a wedding, the first rule of capturing audio is to always secure a backup, even if it's of worse quality, if I would attach a small recorder to a mike handle I always have a second backup recorder running and I"m sure many others do this as well.

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

The only options to 'monitor live audio' like Steven says is a wireless feed going into a recorder on your person, or going into your camera.

Going into your camera for one takes away one of your emergency audio backup recordings.

Secondly - isn't wireless more likely to go wrong rather than the chance of a person accidentally unlocking the hold button and pressing stop.

Third - the above method actually bypasses a lot of issues that are all too common in venues where audio is run by people with no audio knowledge. I've had speeches in a room where the audio was terrible for the guests, but thanks to my recorder - audio was perfect for the wedding video!

Also, I understand a lot of people mention putting a recorder near to a ceiling speaker. A couple of things - how do you check the levels on your recorder when it's 7+ feet up in a light stand. Also - there's no way this recording will be as good in quality as the method in question is.

Like I've outlined before my only alternative method is to sneak a feed from the in-house wireless receiver - but since buying the necessary lead and adapters I've yet to find a venue where this was easy to get at. But I've only had it for the past three weddings so here's hoping things pick up.

Great thread by the way - worthy discussion.

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Steven probably uses cameras that have multiple inputs, so he could have shotgun + wireless.

I tend to use a Shure SM58 connected by XLR to a recorder. The recorder is at an accessible height. But I'm also going to tape to microphone whenever I can for the reasons you mention and others.

Depends! Can easily get handling noise from recorder taped to microphone, or unwanted sounds (rustling of the paper their speech is on). Plus, the general audio quality isn't necessarily nice.

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Quick and nasty time test.

Password: tape


Main conclusions/discoveries:

-- Assuming the gaffer tape is prepped in advanced (cut to right size, wrapped around something), all methods take about the same amount of time.

-- No noticeable residue left this time around, but I have had issues in the past... maybe depending on the age of the gaffer tape (if you're not using a fresh piece every time).

-- Bareback Velcro not too secure -- notice how the lower end falls off when I shake it. Noa rubber method recommended.

-- Elastics very secure in this setup, but since your only means of tightening is doubling it back over recorder and microphone, effectiveness depends on diameters of recorder, microphone, elastic. Hair elastics don't have as much give as a rubber band, so you might be in a situation where the grip is not as tight as you'd like, but there's not enough slack to double the elastic back around again.

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Looks like rubber bands ftw then? Going to source some black ones in various sizes and just throw them in my camera bag.

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

I used to do this in the old days, but didn't think it looked good. = P

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Hey Guys,

Peter, your correct, I am not a wedding specialist, I have only done a few of them. I am an event coverage specialist. I am not always working in a ballroom with a million dollars worth of gear. In my twenty plus years I have worked in just about every type of venue imaginable. I have worked with the best gear and talent money can buy and the worst. This is the wedding and event forum. I seem to be the only event guy that is a regular here. So I read all your guys posts but I rarely contribute because weddings are not my specialty. But achieving quality audio is common to all of us. My comments are always well intended. I try to provide solutions, not just opinions.

Like you guys, I never know where I am going to be shooting or what the conditions will be. I take audio very seriously so my approach is to go in as self contained as possible and not be dependent on bad systems or uncooperative staff. Having years of experience as a technician is incredibly useful to me as a video shooter. It does help me adapt to high end systems and low end junk like a banquet hall with one wireless hand held and blown up ceiling speakers. I might think about things a little different than some of you guys. For example, in the case of capturing speech audio from a house wireless they are passing around the first thing I would do is check to see what frequency it is on. It is not that unusual to find out I can tune one of my receivers to the same frequency and bam, I have a feed straight to my camera that I can monitor. Most of you guys have wireless kits, try it sometime if you’re comfortable with that, I am. You can run multiple receivers on the same frequency but every mic transmitter must be a different frequency.

Clive’s XLR splitter is a great tool to have with you. I carry one in a bag with many other cables and adapters. At the venues where he can use it, it will beat a taped recorder/mic every time.

Yes, I use cameras with XLR inputs, that is very important to me. I understand balanced signals and multi track recording. I do carry a shotgun mic with a stand and I have a wireless transmitter I can put on it.

I am not knocking anyone for trying the gaff tape thing, especially if it is a back up or backed up. I am saying I have never done it and probably never will. It is too risky for my taste. I will adapt and find another way. Even if I am in some banquet hall with an uncooperative DJ and bad audio coming from bad speakers. Acquiring good audio is our job regardless of the venue or event subject matter.

Noa, AV companies that record corporate events mess it up a lot. And when they do it is usually the audio they put in the toilet! But that is for a different thread.

By the way, I consider myself an experienced video producer/director/camera operator/technician. That means I know enough to know I could NOT walk into your specialty and nail it right away without experiencing it first. Wedding are a specialty, I appreciate what you guys do!

Steve

D. R. Gates - That is funny!

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Hey Steve

Nice to see you commenting here! I must admit I also would never consider a device I couldn't monitor for speeches. Nor would I try a mix from the desk unless the guy was a audio pro and not just a music player!

I have seen so many variables with handheld mic distance it scares me! The drunk best man will try to eat the mic and the shy bridesmaid holds it near her waist.

Whether it's a lectern deliver or from the tables I have a gooseneck mic with it's own little stand so at least my mouth to mic distance stays around the same. It plugs into a transmitter so I can monitor and adjust.

Speeches from bridal tables also work very well with a boundary mic (again into a transmitter) My AKG boundaries are tiny (about 1" x 1/2") and can get good audio up to around 15' away as long as it has a reasonable table surface to work with.

I also tend to keep the main camera quite close so if everything fails the shotgun on the camera will get my audio!

Chris

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

I'm filming a recital tomorrow and I will have to run a 100 ft XLR cable to the sound board which is not ideal, so I got to looking at some other options for future gigs. I have a Sennheiser G3 wireless system with the receiver and wireless lav, and I've seen others use the same receiver with one of these for handheld mics:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/618848-REG/Sennheiser_SKP_100_G3_A_SKP_100_G3_Plug_on.html
Is it possible to buy one of these, set it to "LINE" and then monitor and adjust the audio on my camera? I know that some sound boards do not play well with devices without Line Level inputs. If it's not possible to set this device to Line, would a Line to Mic converter like this one do the trick:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/275822-REG/PSC_FPSC0010D_ALMP_Line_to_Mic.html
I would probably use this in conjunction with my Tascam DR-40 as most sound boards have a couple outputs that I'm able to use and this would give me one source that I can monitor (the Sennheiser system) and one source that is not monitored but has a safety track (DR-40). I've noticed that sometimes the DR-40 ends up recording the speeches at a very low volume which is usable but not ideal, so it would be nice to have another source that I can monitor.

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Michael,

The short answer to your question is it would work “some of the time”. The whole answer is more complex than I can write at the moment. But there is good news. The audio section of this forum has a handful of regular guys that provide excellent and accurate information. I am not trying to be a moderator, that’s not my style, I am trying to help you. Your question really belongs there. Discussions about mic level, line level, and the reality of there really being two standards for line level (pro/consumer line are different) are common there. My audio fundamentals are pretty strong but I am not in the same league as some of those guys. Me and a bunch of other guys have participated in several threads about what video guys should have and know to successfully tie into a live sound environment.

Steve

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Thanks Steve, I'll check it out. My guess is that if it's too complicated or too risky then I probably won't go that route. However, if there is a simple and safe way to get a wireless signal to my camera then it could be very helpful.

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Michael, I may be being thick but why would you not simply attach your existing G3 transmitter to a suitable connection on the board, and have that transmit to your receiver next to your camera?

The sensitivity setting on the G3 goes from -60dB to 0dB. And the unit has a peaking warning. If you have the luxury of a sound check you could alter the sensitivity accordingly but if not you can add a pad cable or similar. I have my G3's set to a default of -12dB and if the signal is too hot I add a -25dB pad cable. I find this more practical in the heat of a wedding battle even though it may appear seat of the pants stuff. The pad cable does a similar job to the 2nd item you linked to. Incidentally i think you're far more likely to find a spare phono socket on the board than a spare XLR, thats my experience anyway.

The G3 receiver also has a sensitivity adjustment, this time called AF Out, which runs from -30dB to +12dB. Again I have mine default to -12dB.

And finally you have levels on your cam of course, which is the main thing that I adjust mid-shoot.

Thats a lot of variables but I find my defaults of -12dB on both the transmitter and the receiver work well for weddings, with the addition of the pad cable for stuff such as the evening dancing. Then just keep an eye/ear on the cams levels.

The plug you linked to is of limited value in my opinion because that particular one has no power. Plugs further up the range can power a mic if needs be.

Pete

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Peter, thanks for the advice, I really just had not thought of that as I've only used my transmitter with my ME-2 lav. I'm not familiar with a pad cable, can you send me a link to the one that you use (or a similar one)? I think that the fewer adjustments that I need to make on the transmitter the better since I'm normally rushing around before the reception trying to get everything ready.

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Check this link out. Just one of many in the audio forum about connecting to mixers.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-thin...xlr-input.html

and this one

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-thin...level-use.html

Know this:

+4 dBu is "professional" line level
0 dBv is an average line level
-10 dBv is "consumer" line level
-30 dBu is again in the neighborhood of a typical microphone or DI box's output

Michael, I am not avoiding answering your question. I am trying to steer you to the information. I am suggesting the answer is more complex than a one size fits all adapter or pad. And I would recommend a DI box like this one for your kit Rolls DB25 Rolls DB25 | B&H Photo Video

Kind Regards,

Steve

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Thanks for the links to those threads. The information was very helpful and definitely suggested that different situations will call for different pieces of equipment.

I will say that I've had very good luck with my Tascam DR-40 when recording through the Line Level input. I will typically hook it into an RCA or 1/4" output on the DJ's sound board and turn the input volume on the DR-40 all the way up (with the safety track at -12db). In almost every situation, the audio I get is very clear but quite low in terms of volume. What I end up doing is doubling or tripling the audio tracks in post to raise the volume (of course having to raise the volume in post is not ideal, but it's worked out fairly well since the WAV file from the DR-40 typically has little noise to begin with).

I'm not expecting any audio I send to the camera to be as good as if I plugged in a wired lav and placed it on the best man, but I would like to find a way to get a signal to my camera that would be around the quality of the Tascam's signal while also giving me the ability to monitor and adjust the levels while shooting.

The DB25 box sounds like a good, inexpensive way to handle many situations so I think I'll grab one of those before my next wedding. I will however go into the event knowing that there lots of variables and that I might not get the results I want every time. I think it will be one of those situations where as long as I have the Tascam as a backup, it doesn't hurt to try it out and see how the results are. I'm sure I will end up learning a lot and perhaps finding out what extra parts I may need so that this can be a reliable source of audio to use for the video.

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Get two of the Rolls DB25 boxes. One for your DR40 and one for your G3 transmitter. Hook them up to the board using ¼ outputs, main outs or aux outs if available. Most of the time those will be pro line level at +4 DBu, the DI box will reduce the level close to mic level. Use balanced cables when possible. Then you will have two good sources.

There is no reason why you should need to stack your audio tracks in post. Your setting something up wrong. I don’t have a DR40 but I suspect you may be using tape outputs that deliver consumer line level at -20 DB and the Tascam is expecting pro line level at +4.

And since we have completely and totally hijacked this thread don’t forget to TAPE the DI boxes to the mixer ;) :) Sorry guys!

Steve

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Michael, just to help clarify, the pad cable reduces the power from the output of the board in simplistic terms. They are widely available. I have a couple of them from Pinknoise Systems in the UK. In the US you can get them from - among others - B&H.

I posted this image of a stack of cables and connectors a while back which if you carry enabling you to connect to most boards;

http://www.ashtonlamont.co.uk/images...-cables-01.jpg

You'll see that in the middle there is a pad cable.

Audio specialists always seem to overly complicate things when it comes to real world wedding work. Sometimes it degenerates into little more than a pissing contest on other boards with most totally missing the point due to their inexperience with weddings. You'll be thankful if you only have to rip out a pad cable from the connection rather than adjust the sensitivity on a G3 transmitter if you find within the first few seconds of the unrepeatable 1st dance that the DJs output is far lower than expected, or vice versa stick in a pad cable if its too hot :- )

Again if you've "adjusted" the output by using a pad cable or similar device you don't have to worry about remembering to readjust the sensitivity on your G3 transmitter for the next recording. e.g. a Greek wedding where the 1st dance might precede the speeches and you have to go from a hot dance output to a much lesser output within nano-seconds, it can work well.

Your cable lengths are likely to be very short and so using unbalanced ones is much less of an issue than might otherwise be the case.

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

Hey Peter,

Good advice. With one exception. Audio can get as complicated as you want to make it but signal levels are basic. In my not so humble opinion understanding the mere basics of signal levels like mic level / line level is the responsibility of any videographer that calls himself a professional. Audio signal levels are as basic and important in audio as aperture and shutter speed in video. If you don't understand levels how do you know when to use a pad or not? It is not as simple as "just hooking up to a board because you have a few cables and pads in a bag". Therefor my insistence that it is more complicated than a paragraph in a forum thread. No pissing match going on here.

Steve

Re: Taping a recorder to a microphone
 

the mere basics of signal levels like mic level / line level is the responsibility of any videographer that calls himself a professional

Steve, you're almost doing what I was referring to happening on the likes of DVX :- )

Over there someone might ask an innocent simple question with the intention of improving their knowledge and before long the usual suspects pile in and take them to task for having the audacity to take on a paying job without having a thorough knowledge of every possible scenario, shedloads of experience, non consumer level kit, and of course an assistant or two.

I've posted this pic before:

http://www.ashtonlamont.co.uk/images...reality-02.jpg

Its that sort of nonsense I've anxious to avoid. Thats a bride's getting ready session on the most important day of her life. What were they thinking? p.s. I know what they were thinking.

I do expect every wedding videographer has an appreciation of mic v. line and possibly of consumer line v. pro line. But we would think of it more as - is the signal too hot or is it not hot enough. Thats all it comes down to really.

DVX is of course a valuable resource. I have Barry's book on one of my main cams, and I also have the very funny and very good training DVD "Sound For Film and Television".

Sound for Film and Television

While I'm at it, the various videos available for free from the Learning Lab series are decent as well if a little long-winded e.g.

https://vimeo.com/channels/rulelearn...eries/10380028

Pete