Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

I love working with Claire as she has the same sort of eye that I do and we know exactly what each of the other's requirements are. Claire always does the preps, because the rapport between her and a group of girls is something that I could never get close to. She has been very interested in this particular thread, as she also does the dual package solo, and one of the things that she has pointed out is that although she also really enjoys us working together, we very often get almost identical shots of things. While I am filming the Bride, she is filming guests, then a few minutes later I end up taking similar footage of the same guests. We discard a lot of duplicated footage on a two person shoot and practically nothing on a solo one.

That doesn't mean that I think a second shooter is pointless, but I do think it has limited advantages, particularly if you are having to charge more for the extra person. That of course is the advantage of having your wife involved in the business, she sees it as a social day out as much as it is work and of course the chance to be around dresses, shoes, hats, jewellery ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...............

Roger

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Steve I think you are spot on and it is something we picked up on a few months ago. At the last few wedding shows we have made a point of telling all interested visitors to the stand, that we specialise in full length documentary video and that they need to be aware that many companies offer a much shorter highlights video that is a different product. I just advise them to be aware of what they are going to end up with, which ever way they choose. We also point out that we are always happy to also supply them with a short highlights video of a few minutes length if they want one.

The fact that so many seem to be going down the highlights route because it is more artistically satisfying for the producer, seems to be bringing us in a lot more enquiries, perhaps I should just keep quiet about it :-)

Roger

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

I actually provide a 3 to 5 minute trailer, a 20 minute highlight and then full length versions of the ceremony, speeches, acts by friends and first dance as a standard package now (only charging extra for the trailer)

The 20 minute highlight however is not to satisfy the producer but not to bore the client and their friends when they want to relive their day, that's how I see it and how I find my clients experience it. The long boring parts like a one hour ceremony they still will get but will only be watched by the couple and maybe their parents and then just only once, the highlights however will be watched much more and a trailer will be watched every time they have the possibility to show it of to their friends on their iphones or ipads.

I also find that my clients (the brides) still want to have it all, including the long versions, and they are willing to pay for it but they enjoy a artistically edited 20 minute version way more then having to sit through a 1,5 to 2 hour version of their weddingday, especially if it's with their friends, when I started out I did offer a long version only as well and my clients come and look at the film in my office, back then they started talking to me at the longer segments like the church and I often would fast forward those parts, now they sit silent for 20 minutes and I don't have to touch the playback :)

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Noa, it's fascinating the totally different feedback that people get from their clients. I find that old clients of mine regularly watch the full length video as they love to see and hear all the people, speeches etc. I had a wedding last year where there were seven couples who were previous clients of mine and I just had to ask them if any of them still watch their wedding video. They all said that they frequently watch them and several now have children who also watch them.

I do agree with you that casual friends would not be interested in 'boring' speeches, but family members and those who were at the wedding don't seem to find them boring at all. They also have numerous chapter points that they can jump to if they want to move on.

We also are very happy to offer a short highlights video if asked, but that is quite rare. I'm not suggesting Noa that you or others offer a highlights video just for your own personal satisfaction, but it is a very frequently repeated view on this forum that the highlights/cinematic shortform gives much more scope to satisfy the creative and artistic desires of many producers here, which they can't get from a full length doc style without putting massively increased and prohibitive time into both filming and editing.

Roger

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

I have offered the highlights only for over 2 years with the long versions, like I described above, as a paid option and every single wedding I sold the bride did choose the long version so for me that definitely showed they want to have it all.

I think if you only sell the long version and nothing else your client won't know any better and ofcourse they will be happy with that but if you sell the highlights only and nothing else your client will be missing out on important parts of the day, some might not care but my experience tells me that the clients that contact me do.

Much depends how you set up your business, I spend more time working the way I do compared to just deliver highlights or long version only but I find it important that I can give my clients a nice memory which they can enjoy by themselves and together with their friends which is why I deliver from short to long version.

I know some people do video to make a living and try to make it efficient as possible so they can enjoy their free time and other hobbies more but weddings is actually my hobby so I want to deliver something as well that is satisfying for me also, teh only problem I have is that I have taken on too much work the past years leaving too little time for family and friends and that needs to change. :)

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

I have Weddings where if I had another guy filming, I would probably get this, and others where it would be less likely to happen. I've got a Wedding in March where I have a 2nd shooter at the clients requests. His coverage of Receptions differs to mine. He uses a glidecam to do a walk through, pausing with each group to focus on them. Some work better than others, but his best really gives a feel of walking through the venue and meeting people, some even say hello to camera. You get random conversations, then move onto the next. No cuts, just continuous. It's quite a nice effect, but not one I do as my glidecam skills suck. I tend to prefer close ups, detail shots, capture little moments hidden away, which is less his thing. The results of us both covering a Reception with our different styles I think will make the most of having 2 guys covering the video and probably where it works best outside of moments when you need to be in 2 different locations.

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

I also love closeup work, but I also do a walk through which sounds very similar to what you describe. I understand what you are saying though, if the clients wants two operators and you don't do a particular style, then why not take advantage of the situation with the other shooter.

Roger

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Thanks Roger

Yes we do get most brides that book us without question and often, if not always, take us on the basis of our online clips and photos. We do long form and don't pretend or try and change or compete with the short form "cinematic" guys and brides like us for what we do.

Would we get more business if we shot video on our Nikons and make a 20 minute "film" ? I have no idea but what I do know is we are comfortable with our end product in both shooting, post production and presentation ... we might not be as arty farty as the cinematic wedding film makers but a lot of brides still want the wedding covered traditionally (if I can use that term) so they can see everything that went on during the day. We don't do trailers either because our edit process is quick enough to have the end result out in a week so no teaser is needed (often before they even get back from honeymoon)

I think in the last 10 years I might have been asked once or twice at most for a highlights disk but brides are 99% happy with just the main event on disk. We do cheat a tiny bit and do a 3 minute stedicam shoot set to a nice romantic song but apart from that it's all "documentary style"

I see no need to get other professionals to critic or praise/condemn my work ..my brides are happy so I'm happy so there is really no point at all in posting clips to anyone but the bride.

I'm quite sure that the creative cinematographers would shudder if they had to produce a Marryoke like Steve does as it's more fun than serious film making ..it would actually fit in nicely with our packages (secretly I'm quite envious as I'd love to offer them) We of course do the formal group photos on the stills side but also do fun shots often bordering on the crazy and also do an open photobooth at the reception with silly props ....serious fim makers might poo poo the idea but brides absolutely love it and she is the client!

I'm sure there is room in the industry for the creative geniuses as well as the documentary shooters and each to their own as long as we are all getting bookings and making money but it's still great to see we are not the only ones not moving to serious cinematic films!!

Chris

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Between the hussle and bussle of today's musings, I've realised I forgot to say that you've also gone and spoilt my day Roger. I've been really marvelling at how this conversation has so far been spared from the 'what the bride wants' speal and you go and slip this little line in. Shame on you.

How can we possibly lose focus on this when it's mentioned like, oh 10 times a week on this forum. :)

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Sorry Steve :-( How about - I totally agree that it is easy to get obsessed with technical and artistic perfection! :-)

Roger

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Great comments guys!

Funny, I have always wondered if film makers who post stuff here take extra special care to make the clip as pixel perfect as possible as they know that they will probably get harsh words about every tiny wobble ?

I always remember a quote from a friend of mine who says " There comes a time during editing where you have to say "That's good enough" otherwise the editing will simply go on forever" Wise words when you are running a business. I still shudder at posts here where the person proudly says "I have spent 60 hours already on this wedding with the edit" ...He is also the one that shoots the entire wedding for $1500 and fails to realise that he would earn more money flipping burgers at McDonalds!!

Especially for you Steve I won't put in the Bride comment but I will say, that a lot forget, and that is "It's all about the content"

Chris

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

I can't speak for others work, but my Highlight Trailers are a bit like Macdonald's Burgers. When I have the time, my best work will see them look like that lovely picture on the wall, but everyday, a fast turn around and high workload means they're more like the burger you actually get given. Makes them sound worse than they're are, but it's the best analogy I can come up with first thing in the morning.

'It's about content' is alas another forum cliche I'm afraid. Sorry Chris. :) I spend all day hearing from Brides what they want and discussing content with them; I come here to escape all that and discuss tech. It is a Videographers forum after all, not a Bridal one, so it's no surprise it's that side of the work that gets the most focus here. Outside though, that's completely different. I don't have time to pixel peep on Wedding work; I save that for my own personal projects. That said, I still work to ensure my videos look as good as possible.

Back to the subject on the convergence of video and photo, does anyone think Canon's new addition to their range feels like a small knock back in that goal. They're making a clear statement, you can have top quality photo equipment and top quality video equipment and never the twain shall meet. Perhaps the Mark IV will address that, but as the 5D is by far the most popular camera I've seen Photographers use, it'll be interesting to see how many jump to the S (or R). I can't see them making much of video if they did.

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Good morning guys! your question about the new Canon cameras Steve and the lack of video/photo technical integration brings up a whole new area of discussion really. As the video take up for weddings is so low compared with photography, are we seeing the new wave of shortform and highlight videos being driven mainly by photographers? The very fact that still cameras are not the best choice for long video clips for solo shooters is very much about the lack of facilities and difference in lenses that you would find on a dedicated video camera as I see it.

I know several photographers who have changed over to videography as they felt that wedding photography was becoming very overcrowded. It would certainly be logical for a photographer changing to video to utilise both the equipment and techniques that he is already very confortable with. This would go some way to explaining the rise of companies offering videos with much of the style and hallmarks of the photographer. There are also many young guys starting up who have come from film schools and courses training for media production, who have learnt many of the skills used in the film making industry and want to apply those skills to their own productions.

If we we are going to see new cameras being released which concentrate on the photographic side, but with secondary acknowledgement of the film makers needs, then we may see more of the wedding video industry following the capabilities of the camera rather than the requirements of the genre. The other side of the coin is perhaps that the development of video cameras may be more at the pro and broadcast market end, now that most of the consumer video market is satisfied by smart phones. I don't see any of that making much difference to the growth of dual photo/video packages, but I do see it as affecting the type of video that is on offer. It will also have more impact in the European market, where cameras with recording limits, such as stills cameras are not subject to the same tax levels as dedicated video cameras.

Roger

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Hi Roger

I have yet to see a camera that does both successfully! Just by design, a DSLR is an awkward bugger to handheld for starters! The audio is still pathetic so users resort to recorders instead plus they still have short clip lengths which are not easy to overcome when doing a close to 60 minute Catholic ceremony!

Sony went the other route with the EA-50 of which Pete Rush has and I have too...the concept is brilliant as it's either a handheld or shoulder mount video camera with pro audio, all the normal features like focus peaking and the rest PLUS it has a DSLR sensor and lenses you can change (I use my Nikon lenses)
This gives you DSLR attributes with video camera form factor. Now it is also a mean DSLR still camera, has 16.7mp images and has TTL flash features from a dedicated hotshoe .... Do I use it for stills? Nope I use my Nikons because as good as they are it's still no the "right shape" for stills work whilst my Nikons are prefect for stills but IMHO useless for video...so I end up with both!! Even if the 5D IV does have XLR audio and limitless record time it STILL has the form factor issue unless you dump it on a fancy rig..if you do then you are back at square one when you try to take still with the cam on a rig which is just awkward.

I honestly cannot see a dual use camera design coming out that will have a perfect form factor for stills and then also be able to magically transform into a shoulder mount video camera and back to a still camera in an instant. Hmmm James Bonds engineers might have some ideas but until then we are stuck with having one for camera for each function which is tricky for a solo operator

Chris

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

H Chris,

The short clip lengths are one of the most annoying things for me, and I really can't see the logic of it apart from forcing two different markets for the manufacturers. So many film makers use DSLRs that it just doesn't make sense to impose artificial restrictions.

The DSLR form factor is not that much of a problem for me as I don't do shoulder mounting, preferring a lightweight tripod with quick release. I do love using my Lumix fz200s for filming when length is not an issue and the light levels are within acceptable limits. The up to 24x zoom at F2.8 is so convenient with no lens change necessary, and a bigger sensor and improved low light is still making me look at the FZ1000 with the 4k option. For a joint package, the idea of a 4k, zoom lens, big sensor bridge camera that can take dslr quality pics in all lighting conditions is probably the way that I would go. I think the FZ1000 doesn't quite get there but certainly closes the gap and I will almost certainly get one to use for some parts of the day.

Roger

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

It's only too bad Sony doesn't seem to make any improvements on that camera with a mark II version, the ea50 is bound to be yet another "thing" Sony does and then quickly goes off designing 10 more different camera's. Only camera's that sell really well, like the rx100 get updated.

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

It's all about money Noa!

No manufacturer is going to pump money into a product unless it has awesome sales figures. Sony actually did come out with an updated EA-50 with the shorter E-Mount lens (18-105 I think) ...they supposedly changed the sensor as well but no one could ever confirm it but the spec did say new sensor.

I would say they would look at the A7S if they were going to add an extras to a camera as that took the world by storm!

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

I think that both Canon and Nikon seem to want their still cameras to be used primarily for still photography. I think that will be the case with the 5DS and 5DS R since they removed several video features that were on the 5D Mk III. Canon seems to want people who are serious about shooting video to purchase from their EOS Cinema line because they'll make more money and they won't have to try to cram amazing video and stills capability into the same camera. Canon has done their research and believes that forcing people to choose either video or stills will make them the most money (if I was a large international corporation I would probably find the best way to make the most money too). I've heard that the 5D Mk IV may have 4K video, but my guess is that either by providing a weak codec or leaving off features they will make sure that it doesn't undercut their Cinema cameras.

I'm a huge fan of the Canon Cinema cameras but have not been impressed with the video quality of my Canon 70D, so it doesn't bother me that Canon is doing this as it doesn't really affect my work. However, since lots of people have been shooting primarily video on their Canon DSLRs I've read tons of comments by unhappy users who are furious with this new approach.

With all of that said, I think that if anything we are all pretty lucky that we get to shoot with some amazing cameras and lenses for relatively low prices compared to what was offered even just 10 years ago. I suppose the best thing to do is just enjoy it and not worry about what each company offers so much because they're just trying to stay alive like everyone else.

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Hey Michael

Exactly! That's why Canon have the C100 and C300 as cinema cameras ...I have always wondered why they still keep all the video features on the 5D when they could make it a dedicated still camera which is their major market. I guess the unique photog will still use the 5D for stills only and the C300 will be the choice for primary video? I'm not a Canon person but does the C300 have the same sort of features as a 5D for taking stills.

I guess there is still a market for cameras that do both even though it might do one better than the other??

Chris

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

My C100 has a photo button but it only takes stills at 1080p which is like 2 megapixels, so it's pretty much useless as a still camera. I'm not sure about the C300 but I imagine it does the same thing. Because of this you won't see any photographers walking around with a cinema camera shooting stills at a wedding any time soon lol.

Sony will have to decide if they want to include internal 4K in the next A7S because if they do then that will strongly discourage people from buying the FS7 since the two cameras will both shoot internal 4K but the A7S sensor is actually much better in low light than the FS7. Since Panasonic did not create a successor to the AF100, there's really nothing that they sell which will be affected by the GH4 (or the next GH camera). The Varicam HS is around $45K so there aren't too many people that will be considering both cameras for a shoot.

I'm excited to see which new cameras come out this year but I'm starting to feel like these new cameras are all so good that my clients (especially brides) really won't be able to tell the difference between something shot on a GH4, FS7, or C300 Mk II. I think now more than ever, it's really not about the camera.

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

I really don't believe that it ever has been about the camera, only the content. I do think there is a big danger in getting into a technical mindset where the camera is the important part, it isn't, it's the content that matters. Given a £45k camera and poor content or a £200 handycam and good content, the good content will always be the winner. I've shot weddings in the past where the lighting and situation have been next to impossible and the end footage has been grainy and lacking in colour, but the couple have been ecstatic.

Your comment about the stills from the C100 being 2mp was interesting, as I have a couple of Panasonc SD750s which take 14mp stills and will take 13mp stills while taking video, just at the press of a button. Granted the sensors are small although they are 3mos cameras, but the stills are amazingly good for the size of the camera given reasonable lighting levels. I have even been asked to make an album from them before now, when the photographer's shots were a disaster.

Roger

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Greetings Roger

Sadly being a video forum we tend to get into the tech-head mindset when we are on here! Yes Roger you are so correct! I have seen disaster footage from people with cameras that cost more than I probably earn in a year! However most have no idea at all about basic movie making.

The big issue still seems to be the DSLR owner who becomes reasonably competent shooting stills when they discover that their camera can shoot video too. The immediate reaction is "Wow, I'm now a wedding videographer" ... Shooting motion pictures (if I may call it that) is completely different to shooting stills. Our era and passion for video has allowed us to learn the art of making moving pictures complete with the techniques and rules that apply only to movie making so our content is always appreciated by the bride!

The modern still photographer makes the transition simply because DSLR's can shoot video now, without any basic knowledge about film making. I can pick out the "transitioned" people easily ..Just watch the bridal prep video and you will see lots of shots of the rings, the shoes, the makeup bottles and perfumes .. all they are doing is shooting video of things they used to take stills of!! They have little to no idea of what camera movement is (besides pushing it across a slider) so all you get is a result that could quite easily be emulated using stills and panning across the image. Sadly even the most up to date camera shooting 4K footage cannot make this type of content any better and even simple rules like framing for video and eyeline position that we adjust for by habit are foreign to most people and ignored.

Chris

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Roger / Chris, this is a Videographers forum and we can't be too surprised to see an emphasis on tech. As I said before, I go to my Brides to discuss content with them and I come here to discuss tech. Now tech isn't something to be dismissed lightly. We all use it to one degree or another and getting it done well is less impressing the Bride and more delivering a product that looks Professional. After all, for me it's not just the Bride who sees my video, the Groom too obviously, their family and in the case of a Trailer, their friends too. I see no reason to deliver work of a lesser production value on the theory the Bride cares only about content. No, she also expects a Professional looking video, otherwise she'd ask Uncle Bob to film it.

I do use DSLR's for filming. My main camera is a GH4 and I would not have it any other way. I am looking for something larger like a C100, but more for Corporate. I film using a monopod and the small form factor of the GH4 is less an obstacle and more supportive to my way of filming. I tried something larger a year or so ago and hated it. I don't expect some Videographers to feel the same way as our backgrounds and style of work will be different. However I can say that with my videos frequently topping 2 hours in length, I'm not exactly failing on the content.
Yes I love the tech, yes I can occasionally get arty farty as some put it, but I also work very hard to deliver a documentary style video that looks as good as well as covers all the elements of a Wedding.

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Hi Steve, I certainly wouldn't disagree that the tech is important, my point is that it is easy for some to get obsessed with the technical side and forget about the importance of the content. I want the technology to give my work a professional and high quality finish, but if the camerawork, flow and content is poor, the the technical quality ain't gonna save me! It's not a matter of offering work to a lesser production standard, we should achieve the highest technical standard that we can as I am sure most here do. But production standards include the content, and wedding clients won't notice if you filmed it on £50k cameras or £1k cameras, but they will notice if the content is wobbly, out of focus or missing parts they really wanted to see.

I do sympathise with you that you come on the forum to discuss the technical side, but let's not forget that this wedding and events section is equally open to discussing content, contracts, experiences etc aswell as the technical aspects.

Chris, your description of what many crossover photographers offer with video is absolutely what I feel. Applying some of the photographic techniques can be great used in conjunction with the story telling and movement necessary for video production, but too often it can look like a video slide show, when there is no knowledge of other requirements. There is a tendency to use the framing, focus and pose to add emotion in the way that a photograph does plus music dubbing, without understanding that it is the emotion and sound already present on the day that is there to be captured and crafted. That is where the strength of video lies when you are filming a wedding. Anything else becomes a different product in my opinion, with it's own place and style.

Roger

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

I appreciate discussions on content, contracts and experiences too. Such threads are very valuable and I read many of them and comment also when I have something to offer. However it's only the subject of tech that gets shot down and sometimes cut short with that oh so familiar line - 'aren't we forgetting it's all about content', 'we must remember it's what the Bride wants', 'the Bride wants good content, not a flashy video' etc etc. The other types of threads are never interrupted for covering what they cover. It's hardly big deal, just becoming a bit of a cliche now. I find myself groaning whenever I read a version of the above line.

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

But that works both ways Steve because I get hacked off with the endless discussions over 'whether this or that camera gets the better bouquet', 'how can I get round the crap audio recording in my dslr', should I upgrade my GH3 to a GH4', 'how much better is the C300 than the C100' .

It's as tedious an any other subject that you have heard over and over again, but it's a forum and people can talk about what they want. It's also new to many new members, so really you should just do what I do, don't go on the thread and whinge about the content, either ignore it or put up with it. Have a cup of tea and chill out like me :-)

Roger

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Thinking a bit more about this Steve and I think that your comments about people going on about content and interrupting technical discussion, is biased on your personal preference. This particular thread is about the dual video and photo package, so most of the discussion has been about whether it is possible to achieve that.

Most of the thrust of the discussion is going to be about whether the quality of the content will suffer by trying to offer both, so the technical aspect is secondary to the content side. What equipment is used and how that equipment is utilized is of course important, but not more important that what client expectations are and whether those expectations can be met with a dual package, either solo or with more than one shooter. So I think that if we are discussing fairly, then client expectations are a very big part of that discussion.

Roger

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

I'm not referring to entire threads. Some of those you mention I ignore, others are relevant to me and not you, so I'll dip into. Yes the umpteenth 'which camera shall I choose' can seem repetitive, but as you say we get new people and the discussions can sometimes reveal new things. After all camera gear is always changing. If I feel a thread annoys me, I'll avoid, though rarely any do. In fact the cliche, 'are we forgetting it's about content' doesn't annoy me as such as amuse me or at worse cause me to utter a mild groan. I can discuss camera gear & tech at length here and still deliver good content to my client. It's not one or the other with me.

Dragging back to this thread though, the Photographer I worked with yesterday does video. However as I suspected would be a problem, she finds the editing not to her liking, so her latest venture as a single operator is to offer a shoot it yourself service. She lends the camera to Weddings she's shoots photos for, and delivers the footage, minimum editing. Sounds like a different approach to the combi service. Which begs the questions, if she's getting lots of takes on this, with other Photographers offering video add ons, solo Shoot it Yourself companies out there too, plus Shortform, Highlights only companies, Marryoke only companies and documentary companies like myself; is it really still only 10% of Weddings that have some company shooting some form of video for them.

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Roger, I don't mind talking about content. Honestly this thread has been fascinating for the content side as well as the tech. Let's not blow a minor comment out of proportion, I just find the single comments like 'we tend to forget what the bride wants' and other such similar lines a bit repetitive. I listen to my clients a lot, emails, phone calls. They have my ear 24/7 it seems. So when I'm talking some techy issue and someone says, 'we're forgetting what the bride wants', I either laugh or groan depending on my mood that day.

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

That's fair enough Steve and I'll admit that the content thing with me is a bone of contention as I see so many threads dedicated to improving the technical aspects in the wedding section, where the content seems to be of little interest to many, so I'll move on as well.

Your reflections on type of wedding video offerings is also an interesting one as I can only judge percentages by my own experiences over the years and surveys carried out. The joint survey last year between the Daily Mail and the National Wedding Magazine apparently covered 5000 brides before and after the wedding. Only 10% of UK brides had a video but apparently 92% who didn't, wished they had afterwards. That suggests that videographers are not getting the message across or are not selling what the brides want.

Photography has reached the status of traditional, but video hasn't, so it seems logical to me to combine the two. For me and Chris, that seems to have increased the level of interest and also given me bookings and enquiries for much further ahead than I have experienced before. I am also finding some interesting information from clients on their views on photographers and what they offer, plus the opportunity to talk to potential clients who may not have talked to us without the photography.

Roger

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

I think that my original point stands Roger that this is a Videographers forum and many come here to discuss tech. If they're like me, this becomes their main resource to do so and learn from how others approach things. Recent discussion on attaching a recorder to a roving handheld wireless mic was quite inspirational and I welcome such threads. If you feel that content needs more discussion though, start a thread.

Going to your 2nd point; I agree there is an untapped resource here. It's widely acknowledged that video is the most under valued service in the Wedding Industry. Even clients who have booked me don't really recognise it's full value until after the Wedding. Problem is, how to change that.
A Bride's priority is always going to be what's happening on the day; the Photographer too is a part of that process as the Photo Session is usually a key event. What part of the day do Videographers dominate; none. They record the day as unobtrusively as possible. There's no Video Session listed in any timetable; well not in my Weddings. Perhaps those that offer Shortform benefit from this, as they make recording the video part of the day, or at least in some examples I've seen with endless shots of the Bride and Groom together.

The closest I get to this is the Marryoke, but even this is left up to me to work behind the scenes. Of course after the Wedding, the focus is on the memory and in this the Video excels. I just wish I could market Videos to couples after their Wedding, then nip back in time and film it for them. I'd be flooded with bookings.

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

I think the main reason for this is, is that most of us, including me, don't ask for that time. I"m comfortable with just letting the photog to do all the work during the photoshoot and to include them in my shot as well for the videopart and I do take pictures also for my dvd covers while they are taking their photos.

I"m pretty sure if I would demand videotime as well they would plan it in but probably still call it photoshoot :)

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

If I'm doing a video only wedding where my photog isn't there I DO ask for the time. Normally pre-arranged with the photog and I do it directly after the group photos are all done but before the bridal party photoshoot. This allows me to do a stedicam shoot with just the bride and groom and also is ideal to zap off some quick poses for the DVD cover if the bride has her own photog. (Despite sincere promises I have yet to have any photog actually send me any images so I take them myself or my own photog will take them)

I guess I have a "video photoshoot" as an essential part of my packages so I need to allocate time for it.

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Hi Chris,

Your time with the couple is something that I don't do at all as I like to capture what unfolds at a wedding as a fly on the wall documentary. That would mean that I would see what you are doing in your own time with the couple as constructing something just for the video, which is not a criticism, just an observation on a slight variation of how we both work.

The only thing that I do that I would see as just for the video, is when I sometimes go round a table to ask for messages to the couple. I also see all posed shots, romantic and groups, as set up shots which have become traditional and expected over the years. I think that is what I enjoy about documentary video, it is a live vibrant medium which captures the essence of what the day is all about without intruding on it, whereas posed photography is an artificial set up moment to go on the wall or in an album to be occasionally dusted off.

Roger

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Hi Roger

At photoshoot venues it amuses me when I see the photog setting up the posed shots and two eager video guys on either side shooting the whole thing ..I always tell brides that I never shoot the photographer taking pictures of the bridal party and they are happy with that. My little shoot (about 10 minutes tops) is my contribution to the more creative side and the brides love it as it's set to their favourite romantic song. All I do is take them on a little walk away from the remainder of the bridal party and do some soppy stuff including what Don calls roundie-rounds and that's about it ... Along with our "video guestbook" which brides also love the two are sort of signature features of our packages to make us just a little different from the rest of the pack of competitors. I've always done those two in my doc packages and to take them out would more than likely be a mistake so they stay!!

It's sometimes tricky to get an arrogant photog that I don't know to let me have the couple for 10 minutes but that issue is becoming less and less now as we book dual packages

If we all did exactly the same thing at a wedding it would be somewhat boring!!


Chris

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Roger I'd like to quote that statistic to prospective couples - do you have a link to the survey? I've googled but can't find it

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Hi Peter,

That's interesting as I googled the survey last November and there were a lot of interesting statistics, but when I googled again yesterday to post a link I couldn't find it at all. It was a Daily Mail/National Wedding Magazine survey. A couple of other threads linked to it last year, so you may be able to track them down. I'll try another search today as I would like to be able to give it to brides.

Roger

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

There are times when I do capture part of the photo shoot. For one thing it's a good opportunity to ensure coverage of key guests, other times it's nice to show the behind the scenes of a photo shoot. Some can be quite lively, with a lot of laughter and mockery, such as when a particular guest is late or doesn't stand in the right position. Kids can be great here too. I agree it can be pretty dull for the most part and I avoid just repeating what the Photographer is capturing albeit with video, but if filmed well, it can make for a nice little piece in the video.

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

Hi Steve

Again as Roger says we all work in different ways! Photoshoots here involve just the bridal party going off to a few different venues ..never the guests ...family groups are done at the ceremony venue and normally dispensed with quickly so the bridal party can have maximum time getting their "special photos"

When we do our dual shoots we are doing photos anyway so I will team up with the wife and do groups then do my video shoot at the first location. After that the video stuff and stedicam is back in the car and I'm onto stills until reception time ... while I have the B&G for video the rest of the bridal party are doing stills with wifey so it works well.

Chris

Re: A turning point in video/photo packages?
 

In the UK, once the ceremony is over, the main wedding party and guests tend to remain together at most weddings, with groups being called by the photographer. He will probably take the B&G away from the guests for a while to do some romantic shots.

Like Steve, we always include part of the photographer's groups in the video as it is quite a big part of the day. The setting up of the poses, funny comments etc are what we film, with the actual posed shot being of little importance. We do exactly the same if we are doing the dual package, and if I am doing a solo dual shoot I will video the preparation before taking the stills of each group.

Roger