Re: Camcorders only
 

He is not active anymore on the forum, just look at his last discussions and you know why.

Re: Camcorders only
 

I had no idea there was a DSLR with unlimited recording, that's great news. I've been restricted to using older DSLRs up to now that have Magic Lantern for auto restart which isn't ideal. How long do the batteries typically last on the GH4r - ie how long can you record for before the battery runs out? Also, the new V-Log L mode presumably makes matching to other cameras easier? I wonder if other DSLRs will now also bring out cameras with unlimited recording...

Matt

Re: Camcorders only
 

So, how far away from the FZ1000 can you be when using the remote control app Roger?

Re: Camcorders only
 

The GH4r continuous recording is hopefully an innovation to be taken up with other cameras. Battery length is variable depending on whether a stabilised lens is being used. I've not pushed any to the limit but I think 3 hours continuous recording is possible on a non stabilised lens. Given the GH2's battery have done 2 hours at a push and the GH4's battery has greater capacity, this isn't an unreasonable expectation. Plus there's a battery grip which I've not invested in, and this would double this length.

I've yet to use the v-log; I plan to play with this over Xmas when I have more time. I'd need another one to benefit from the colour grading and matching, but I'm finding having 2 GH4's, though 1 is not an 'r' version to be very easy to grade to look identical as I've set up the various camera profiles to match.

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Unless you have some advanced grading skills I would not shoot in vlog, just like any other flat profile like slog and so on it's difficult to get the right color out of it.

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Bear in mind that Peter Riding was a photographer who simply offered video as a freebie so to concentrate on his main task which was taking good stills, he wouldn't have had very much option apart from using a few locked down camcorders. I did just one wedding where I did video and stills and trust me it wasn't easy with two Nikons handing from my waist, a shoulder-mount camera on my shoulder and still trying to keep an eye on the 2nd cam on the tripod. Not for the faint hearted .. I certainly wouldn't do it again on my own!! I guess his bias was stills so not very much here was of interest to him.

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Actually Chris, I did comlement Peter on his work on more than 1 occasion. I found his use of multi camera put some Videographers I've hired to shame. Taken as a freebie, his videos were better than it had a right to be. Where he got flack was for declaring that his videos were what Brides really wanted and not anything others provided. Plus I think his ignorance of video came through and he wouldn't accept any counter argument.

He had strong views i give him that. I did visit his website back when he was contributing and was amused to see his pages littered with veiled attacks on Photographers who have won awards, weekend warriors and any Videographers offering cinematic edits. In fact one phrase on his video page stuck in my mind the most; that most Videographers were hobbyists and couldn't be trusted to do Weddings.

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Good question Nigel , I only shot in HD. But yea upon reflection, looking at the footage, the 4k downscaled may do a touch better compared with the A7sII.
I'll try that next time!

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Some of you get incredible low light out of your camcorders. Seemingly better than my (dated) Sony Z5U. Are those camcorders really good in low light, or are your receptions fairly well lit or do you do any color correction (neatvideo)?

Any export setting tricks?

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David, I'm not sure when your camera was released but I saw an article on it dated 2009. Hate to tell this to you, but technology has moved leaps and bounds since then. I know its only 6 short years, but back in 2010 I was running a Sony FX7, and I recall a Wedding where a guest was using a 7D. When he showed me his evening footage on screen and I could compare it with mine, I started using my Nikon D70 for Video and the rest is history. My GH4 knocks the spots of DSLR's back then for lowlight and Camcorders have also not been idle and I'd wager something like the AX100 would show a definite improvement on your current camera. That said, I think most using camcorders would either be using lights or switching to DSLR when the lights go down.

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Thanks, yeah I suppose so. That cameras been a workhorse, and I feel comfortable trusting it, but I suppose it's becoming time. I also use a Sony VG900 & the last few weddings have used it extensively for the dance floor footage, it's been great, and I used it on bridal prep once. I was hoping to get another year out of the Z5U, even thinking of using it just for the Ceremony & 1st dance (has a cool LANC controlled zoom tripod that gives a nice flowing motion to the 1st dance & parent dances).

I should look at a AX100, alhtough I was thinking about a Sony body like the A6000 & use the same lenses that I have for the other cam. However I'm still impressed by the low light ability of some of these camcorders & their price points.

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I was so happy to make the switch away from "videocameras" and I haven't been following them since I made the leap about 5 years ago. That being said, I totally understand why some prefer them...especially for weddings. If I were looking at videocameras now, I would strongly consider the EA50. You get all the benefits of a video camera, but the image strongly reflects the "DSLR" look. Too bad the lens is f/4, but at least that is a fixed aperture.

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Hi Ian

I had my EA-50's for 3 years (two of them) .. Loved the form factor, loved the features and on the last year used them with fast Nikon lenses for low light work. However I never did like the end result ..it was good but always seems on the soft side and I had a huge amount of post work to do to get the image right. Sadly they are somewhat outdated now so you don't have 4K and hand held with fast lenses like the Sigma 18-35 F1.8 art series they become very front heavy indeed. They look very professional but I feel the AX100 out performs it by a long way!!

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That camera can exchange lenses so you can put on fast primes if needed.

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Full marks for Chris for sticking with the EA50 for 3 years, but lugging around what looks like a torpedo launcher all day isn't my idea of an alternative to DSLRs or a small camcorder like the AX100.

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When the nex-ea50 came out nothing came close to a camera that could give you the look of a dslr but functioned like a videocamera, it's actually too bad Sony didn't see any future in this camera, I do agree though that for weddings the size isn't exactly a advantage.

Re: Camcorders only
 

Aside from using an FX7 when I first started out, my only experience of larger video cameras comes from the AF101A, and its hardly an experience that's endeared me to video cameras over DSLRs. Despite the larger size and more buttons to play with, it feels arguably less functional than my GH4. No touch screen for focus, a toggle switch to choose between 3 custom ISO settings, as opposed to 1 button on a GH4 that opens up a full range and only 3 custom white balance settings, compared to the GH4 with multiple presets, 3 custom presets, Kelvin settings; all of which can be adjusted for colour manually. Limited to AVCHD too, which I'm not a fan of.

Of course audio control is where the AF101a does score, but this is also tempered by an incident on a shoot where the battery died despite the camera suggesting I had 40 mins remaining. Had I patched my wireless mic into my Zoom recorder, this loss of image wouldn't have affected my audio too.

That said, if any camera is tempting me back to larger video cameras, its the DVX200; not a camera without its faults, but for non Wedding work and even some aspects of Wedding work, it could be very useful. Might wait for the price to drop a bit. I also looked at the Sony X70 when visiting the BVE earlier in the year. Its smaller and cheaper than the DVX200. Not sure how good the low light is, given its a 1" sensor as opposed to the DVX200's micro 4/3s.

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To be perfectly honest Steve I think it was more vanity than anything else. Admittedly I love shoulder mount cameras and as Noa says there was nothing else on the market and it was a chance to get a DSLR look with camcorder functions but probably the bottom line was it looks professional and you will impress everyone with your big brute on your shoulder ... that's the vanity part kicking in!!

Put a decent lens up front with a matte box and suddenly you have a 5 or 6kg brute trying to dislocate your lower back ... not a good idea at my age either. I must admit I now have to say "Guys, it's video..see the big microphone ..you can talk not pose for a photo" with the small form factor of the FZ1000 despite the shotgun mic and big dead cat they still think it's a still camera. With the EA-50 ..there was no doubt at all that you had a TV style camera pointing at you.

My main change was I think due to my constantly sore lower back despite using a support rod and waist belt and Peter Rush also had the same problem so he is now using his A7S in place of the EA-50. It was also tough to jump ship from Panasonic to Sony as I was weaned on Panny cameras and the EA-50 was my first Sony but after the disaster of the AC-130 cameras I had, Panasonic had nothing more to offer and I wasn't quite ready (vanity again) to go to a smaller camera!!

Re: Camcorders only
 

I know you didn't refer to me but vanity never played a part in my camera choice, if that was the case I would not use a cx730 as a main camera during a ceremony. I just wanted a all in one solution and since I came from a canon xh-a1 the nex-ea50 seemed like a logical step but the size of the camera became more of a burden then I expected and it also was a attention magnet and I prefer to be a fly on the wall instead of the elephant in the room. :) I know it has been discussed herer before about how the size of the camera can make you look more professional but for weddings that doesn't matter, it's more of an ego thing if you think that size matters or just being insecure.

Re: Camcorders only
 

Back when I started using DSLR's in 2011, guests would always come up to me and comment on how small cameras were becoming. I always felt I had to defend my choice of gear. In recent years, no one comments at all; its just accepted. Then again back in 2011, guests weren't taking photos with smartphones (those were the days), so I don't think people expect cameras to be as big now. Though ironically phones have gotten bigger as cameras have gotten smaller.

I did have one guest at a Wedding last year, who worked for Sony come up and comment on how my GH4 looked like a toy camera. Hard to argue with appearance, especially when I slap the 12mm silver Oly lens on it. It doesn't resemble anything professional.

Switching so quickly to a DSLR after starting my business, I never got to enjoy the vanity phase of working with a big camera, an FX7 being as close as I got. Running a Canon 60D early on, I was quite conscious of its small size. Recent years it doesn't bother me at all, so now even the toy camera remark just brings a smile to my face.

Re: Camcorders only
 

No Noa, you never implied that you needed a big heavy camera to look professional ..that was my ego only and at that stage I was very anti-DSLR ..probably due to the fact that people were using Canon 550D's with a mere 12 minute record time then and it was before Magic Lantern too!!
I did delve into using a Panny GH1 which was hacked and it shot very nice video I must admit but the manual focus was too much for me. I still find the form factor horrible to shoot video with hence my twin grip rigs on my current cameras which actually make things a lot easier.

All I can say now is that AF has become on par with camcorders and I have yet to see any out of focus shots on the FZ1000 ...I always however do a half press shutter before shooting but then let the continuous focus take over and even on long aisle walks it has been amazingly good! It's turned off however on my A-Camera as that's the tripod mounted one!

Yes, I have had to eat humble pie since going the mirrorless route but I am still delighted with the results and most importantly I don't get a sore back any more!! Including the rig, camera and shotgun it tips the scales at a mere 1400 grams ..a far cry from my 5 -6 kg shoulder mount cameras.

We live and learn but huge advances in technology have also made the newer cameras a lot easier to use for video ... I don't think I could get any useable results with my Nikon D90's but they still take brilliant still shots so that's all they are used for!

Re: Camcorders only
 

Hi Jack,

Sorry for delayed reply. In answer to your question, I am not actually sure as I have only needed to use it at no more than 20 feet away. That has been good for the situations I have used it in, but may not work for a locked off camera at the back of a church. I also often use a GoPro remote in the same way.

Regarding the use of locked off cameras, I use them all the time, but as a backup for my main operated camera. I spent a couple of decades filming weddings with just one camera, so am very used to quick smooth changes from one shot to another and being creative while constantly filming. Over the last few years I have gradually changed to using as many cameras as I feel appropriate, but always with a continuously running video camera taking a wide angle of the ceremony. That gives me the opportunity to rapidly respond with the main operated camera without having to worry about quick movement or focusing as that is covered by dropping in a B cam shot. I nearly always shoot solo, so using extra cameras could present the added problem of having to run round restarting them if necessary. It can also mean missed shots while you are setting up or packing up, so I have streamlined my working so I really don't have a problem.

The main tripod has the A cam and a clamp for a B video cam that enables me to set a wide angle which is not affected by the pan and tilt of the A cam. I can also choose to quickly clamp it somewhere else, if I want a different angle at some point. I have another video cam on a clamp that can be used for another continuous C cam angle if required, and the same with the GoPro as a C or D cam. I also often use the second FZ1000 as the locked off B cam although I tend to use it for shorter ceremonies, to avoid the restart and also in 4K for zooming or cropping in post.

My reservations about relying on multi cameras locked off, are about using them as a substitute for creative video work with the main cam. Locked off cameras are very valuable when solo as they give you far more freedom on the main cam to get some great footage without needing to flow on the changes. Different angles don't give you the close intimate detail that a skillfully used main camera does, but as I said before, are great for a change of angle particularly during main camera reframing or moving.

I also use the remote on the second FZ1000 to alter the zoom from time to time, just to vary the cutaway. If I am using the clamped B cam on the tripod, I will often change the framing, between using the main cam, to give even more variation.

Finally, one of the main reasons that I use clamps for the backup cams is that they can all be set up and broken down in a couple of minutes, so shots don't get missed, and they can be placed almost anywhere.

Roger

Re: Camcorders only
 

I think anyone who uses multicam as an excuse to forego creative camera work for their main camera, won't be much cop when working with just 1 camera.

I agree with Roger, you should never be in a situation of running around resetting cameras. Only 2 of my 4 cameras have a time limit and another GH4r I intend to add in the New Year will mean only 1 will need restarting, which I'll be operating. If the rumoured GH5 arrives next year, I'm hoping it will follow the GH4r model in allowing continuous recording. If not a foreign import will have to be considered.

Re: Camcorders only
 

I recall you calling it a 'bazooka' Noa!

I've still got mine - I was going to sell it on in order to get an additional A7s but I've done a few small corporate jobs recently, which were made easier buy using this cam for constant run time/XLR input and well....yes it just looks the part more for corporate clients so I'll be holding on to it.

Pete

Re: Camcorders only
 

I'm in the same boat with my af101a, but decided to live with any Corporate disapproval and sell it for another GH4r. I've spent enough on gear not to have to apologise for it and there are plenty of audio bolt ons to handle that side of things.

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Good info Roger, appreciated!

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Just in case...

I'm probably selling one of my Sony CX730s. One of them, the LCD screen doesn't flip out fully. Not sure why. Its like 45 degrees rather than 90. You can still see your framing and use the screen - better suited to being used as a static.

You can't buy these new anymore.

Quite a few on here swear by them including Noa, and we believe them to be the best quality and best in low light for the form factor and price range.

I bought my second one two years ago - it took me months to find somebody that still had a new one for sale.

I coughed up £600 for it.


So ... make me an offer!

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Clive, why are you selling Sony CX730?

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On the subject of controlling multiple cameras with time limits, I've just been reading article on some new Bluetooth device currently getting funding called Pulse. Apparently works from 100 feet away and can control your camera via it's USB port. Connection is via a smartphone app and you can control up to 3 cameras at once. Even for my cameras that are unlimited recording, it is tempting if only for monitoring.

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My old package required various unmanned angles to add more cuts in edit to keep the ceremony interesting. My current package is much shorter and heavily condensed, so I really only need one of two CX730's as a wide 'safety' option.

I'm also considering buying a Ninja Star or Black Magic VideoAssist to bypass the time limit recording from either my RX10ii or my A6000. This might lead to be selling both my CX730s!

Re: Camcorders only
 

Thanks clive. I guess the CX730 is used for a wide safety shot and the A6000 and the RX10ii for more detail?

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The a6000 kit lens is is 16mm on the wide end and the RX10II is 24mm. My thoughts are to use either of these as the wide safety in the future. Getting rid of all my camcorders, and bypassing time limits by recording to a separate device via HDMI output.

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Will the A6000 not overheat even with an external recorder? Sounds an expensive and potentially unreliable solution. What about focus? I have been using a Canon 700D as a b cam but focus is a problem that's why I've been thinking about a camcorder as a general wide safety shot. The Go-pro Hero 4 Black just doesn't cut it either. It will be interesting to see how you get on.

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As safety wide camera nothing beats the little cx730 alike camera, the best set and forget camera you can get in a very small package, it's takes as much space in your backpack as a lens and will record for hours with the right battery.

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A 4K capable camera would be preferable for a wide safety shot as it will give you the option of zooming & re-framing in post if delivering in HD. It would also be preferable that there were no recording limit so it's a set & forget device. An AX100 is about the same price as a GH4r with a wide angle lens so take your pick.

Re: Camcorders only
 

Hmm, food for thought!

Will have to get some info on lenses for the GH4.

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Note that I specified the GH4r which is the version with no recording limit.

Re: Camcorders only
 

So the GH4 would be cheaper again.

I'm pretty sure that there is no limit on Australian models.

Haven't read much on the GH4r yet, but I will.

Re: Camcorders only
 

If you buy an genuine Australian GH4 that actually comes from a dealer, yes, there is no record limit ...the grey imports might be cheaper but they could also have a limit depending where they are sourced from.

My GH1 had no time limit but the firmware had been hacked ...I got that really cheap from the USA and the hack allowed a higher bit rate, NTSC/PAL switching and no time limit so you could always find something like a GH2 or GH3 that has been worked on but remember they won't have any 4K modes.

My issue with the GH4, as great as it is, is having to buy new micro2/3rd lenses ..ouch ..that's why I went with the FZ1000's

Re: Camcorders only
 

Not quite true. There are adapters for other lens systems like Canon and Nikon if you own any of those, though with some loss of functionality.

Seeking 4k for an unmanned camera, the ax100 has easy setup and maybe longer battery life in its favour. GH4, the chance to add further faster lenses down the line. The fz1000 has a cheaper price, but a recording limit, albeit with remote control via smartphone. There are other options of course. No right answer for everyone, so down to budget, how it would fit in with your other equipment and whether it's being used in very low light situations.