Camcorders only
 

Anyone on here using camcorders only, for weddings.
Been looking at the Sony camcorders lately, might go that way.
Would need at least 2 of the same model.
Maybe keep a dslr with acouple of wideish primes, in case of extreme low light.

Kit now is 2 x 70Ds, 2 x 600Ds, 1 x sony xf1000 with Ninja Star recorder.., and my new FZ1000, which I ve managed to match pretty well to the other cameras.

Working alone, doing a lot of outdoor ceremonies.
Was looking at some of my old wedding footage, using canon HFS20 camcorders.
Sooo easy to set up and let em run!
Thoughts?

Re: Camcorders only
 

I use two sony cx730's and a ax100 for the ceremony which are like you said so easy to use if you shoot alone, the only problem is that you need to use a videolight when the lights go out in the venue, only for that purpose a dslr with a fast prime is a better solution.

Re: Camcorders only
 

Hi Jack

I'm just using 2 x FZ1000's only now for weddings and really have now lighting issues at all. I do have a CFL light I set up for speeches and when they kill the lights for the first dance I just use a 6 x Power LED light on the handheld FZ1000. They however would die at the weddings Noa does and he does need really low light cameras .. Our weddings in Australia are much better lit and on average you won't have to go to the extremes that Noa has to with receptions lit with just tea-light candles!!!

My shoot style however is documentary style with bright sharp images so maybe you still need your DSLR's if you want the cinematic wedding film look.

I was also wondering if I needed a camera that could run for more than 30 minutes like a camcorder but even at Catholic ceremonies I just stop and start and convenient places ..I even did that when I had my Sony EA-50's purely for the convenience of 4 shorter clips rather than one 60 minute clip! So far I simply haven't needed anything else except the two Panasonics !

Re: Camcorders only
 

The 29 minute clip limit would be a real problem for me as sometime I get boxed in and would have to literally squeeze out between the bride and groom to go and restart my static cameras - as a solo shooter I'll always use camcorders (currently CX730 but looking at one or more AX100) for static cameras and my A7s for everything else.

Re: Camcorders only
 

I never understood that :) why on earth would you stop a camera that has no recording limit up to 4 times during a continuous recording of a 1 hour ceremony, because it's "convenient"? So if you would have 3 videocamera's running at a ceremony you run by them 12 times to stop recording and restart, eventhough the camera has a unlimited recording time? Why?? :D
Because your clips are smaller then? and what difference does that make, 4 clips of 3gb each instead of one clip of 12gb, what do you gain? It still will be 12gb, but you have 4 instead of 1 clip and what about the extra time you need to spend to synchronize every separate clip? This does not make much sense to me, the only thing you achieve is to make it more difficult for yourself, during shooting and during editing.

Re: Camcorders only
 

The 29 minute clip limit is a major pain and I've got to the point I no longer wish to invest in a camera that has this limitation. Like Peter says, you can get boxed in and it looks quite unprofessional going around resetting your other cameras, when any camcorder a guest may have can run continuously. The new GH4r has therefore been a blessing for me and I intend to add another soon to the one I have. This has saved me from having to go down the route of camcorders, which although have plenty of advantages can be limited in some low light venues. Even my GH2 with a 2.5 pancake lens can be very hard to match for some Weddings with my GH4. I even had 1 Bride pick me up on it. If I was to add a camcorder to my mix, it would be the AX100.

Re: Camcorders only
 

I'm using 2 x Sony FDR-AX100 and 2 x HDR-PJ7xx series handycam and 1 x PMW200.

I do have a Canon 5D Mk 3 and a 70D but they dont ever come out for long events.

The recording limit for the Sonys is great the AX100 have 128 Gig cards and the PJ7xx have 96GB of internal memory, so you just turn them on and thats that sorted, I did have to get an adapter for the active hotshoe to mount a light when needed, but other than that I'm happy enough with the setup.

I've come to the point now that I do tell the couple that if the venue dim their lights too low that my cams will pick up the result which might not be very good

Re: Camcorders only
 

I use Sony Cx730s as my 'backups'. They get cut to in edit only when absolutely necessary. I also gave an RX10II it's first run out on Saturday.
To be brutally honest though I'm baffles that some of you use the Cx730s footage as more like a main cam. Even in the dull church I had on Saturday the rx10ii looked very amateur compared with my a7s/a7sii/a6000.

I suggest use a wide camcorder for cutting too briefly and buying a good dslr which you stop/start frequently.

If it's the look you care about. .. shooting shallow isn't a necessity. Stop down to f5.6. The a7s ISO can allow for it.

Re: Camcorders only
 

Even worse it IS my main cam during the ceremony :) I have attached a varavon loupe to the lcd screen so I can hold it to my eye like I would with a dslr. See the image I included. I also always shoot handheld with it and have a ax100 on a tripod for the readers at the lectern and the priest at the altar and just fill in the rest with my little cx730 which works for me and my paying clients.

Below is a good example of such a ceremony where I used the ax100 and cx730, check between 01:55 to 03:15 where all handheld shots are cx730 and a few stationary are ax100. There are only 4 ax100 shots in there, at 02:11, 02:36, 02:41 and 03:06

Re: Camcorders only
 

Hmm, Lots of similar views to mine here. I guess my main issues are:

: 29 min Limit, "main gripe"

: Changing Lenses, mostly at reception, 4 cameras running

: Too many different types of batteries and chargers, which is purely due
to the fact that I can't make my mind up on which cameras I should use

:Lack of "smooth slow zoom" for walk around, hand held stuff

:Other DSLR issues,


I'm similar to Chris Harding in the Doco style, but like a bit of shallow DOF for Preps and intro shots.

Was Looking at the Sony PXW X70s, or similar. Would need three, I guess. Two at the front, on bride and groom, one in the Aisle. Get these puppies running early at the Ceremony, so I can concentrate on some shots of the bride arriving in limo, etc. Sometimes the Limo arrival area can be hundreds of yards away and I have to plead with the bride and brides maids to give me a chance to get back to start my cameras.
They just look at me blankly!!!!!

Don't have a problem using lights at the reception, only used well dimmed, usually get a thank you from the Photog once they've compared a few pics with and without my lights. Would be nice not to have to use them though..

Re: Camcorders only
 

three x70's? Get one x70 and two ax100 instead, the x70 will cost you a lot more once you get the 4k upgrade.

Re: Camcorders only
 

Hi Noa

I guess we all do things differently! I always break up a long ceremony ..usually doing a stop after the readings, after the homily and after the vows ...that is MY choice no-one elses! I prefer to edit shorter segments in my NLE ..for me it's far easier to shuttle over a 15 minute clip than a hour long one and my entire wedding has always been broken up into events anyway. I have been doing them that way ever since the year dot and it has nothing to do with the 12 or 30 minute limit that DSLR's have at all!!

Re: Camcorders only
 

Thanks for advice, will check them out now.

Re: Camcorders only
 

I"m not questioning your shooting style, if it works for you that is all that counts but I"m sure not many would deliberately stop and restart multiple camera's during a one hour ceremony if it concerns camera's that have no recording limit. There is nothing convenient about it, on the contrary, you are only introducing room for error and have extra work editing it. I say it has everything to do with the 12/30 min recording of a dslr because they will introduce the same risk. I would not even think of using 2 or 3 dslr's with such a limit during a ceremony, it would just be a matter of time before I am not able to reach a camera to restart or just would be to late. Right now I just start the camera up in the beginning of the ceremony and shut it down at the end so I can check up on them when time allows, not when a clock tells me I have to go or when something important is happening and I can't get away knowing a important angle is about to stop recording. That's not "convenient".

Re: Camcorders only
 

Like you I split the day into segments, usually a timeline for each section of the day, before bringing each timeline together to create 1 timeline of the whole Wedding. However I tend to edit the Ceremony as 1 timeline, hence the 29 minute limit bothers me as I have to resync audio every time I restart. Personally I think deliberately restarting is extra work and unless you're missing sections of the Ceremony, no reduction in video size. Like Noa says, an odd habit to have, but to each their own. If you're not working multiple cameras, I suppose the restarting of the camera wouldn't be the hassle in edit it is to me.

Looking at your kit, I wouldn't have you down as a Doco style, so can understand why you want to change to camcorders as it suits that shooting style better in my opinion. I have 2 cameras with a clip limit and that is 1 too many as far as I'm concerned. God knows how you managed running 4 with the limit. I've now got 3 of my 4 cameras using the same battery type and its a godsend for keeping things simple in managing multiple cameras. I don't suppose the x70 and the ax100 use the same battery; probably a lot to ask.

Re: Camcorders only
 

And this is a POV from a person who has the freedom to move around during a wedding ceremony.

I use the AX100 to cover me, and a GH3 and GH4. Most ceremonies I shoot last 30 minutes tops, so the GH3 as an alternative angle usually lasts no problem, whilst the AX100 is a solider b-cam and the manned camera is always running (GH4). I have used two camcorders and a GH4 when I filmed a longer ceremony though, and I am interested in adding a GH4R for this reason, so that it can add as a back up; but I'll most likely wait for the GH5 and then decide whether to stock up on GH4s or spring for the GH5 instead.

I think Panasonic have just made a massive choice in allowing unlimited recording in the EU, but I still think camcorders have their place, which is why I'm also drawn to a truly professional camcorder like the new Panasonic 4K camera... it's amazing how much we're able to debate... so many options!

Re: Camcorders only
 

Hey Steve

If I was in the UK it would be a hassle I'm sure. Here, probably 90% of our wedding ceremonies are no longer than 20 minutes unlike long and involved Anglican Church ones in dark and dreary venues. Even our Catholics have trimmed the services down so a reset is rarely required. Our speeches run around the 5 - 8 minute mark and sometimes they come up to the lectern and say "Thanks for coming" and sit down again. I honestly cannot remember a single wedding this season where I had to stop the main camera so if it does happen it's very seldom. On the rare occasion where I have split the ceremony, it has only been the A-Cam that needs to be stopped and that's where the bride has decided on a full mass and recording the priest wandering around the rear of the Church collecting the bread and wine hasn't been essential footage! I only use 3 cameras at the ceremony and the action cam I just let run of course and the B-Cam is only shooting short clips so there is never really an issue to run around resetting cameras ..if there was, I would be using camcorders for sure.

Re: Camcorders only
 

Yeah it's hard enough when on your own, to keep an eye on focus, exposure and framing with four cams. The time limit adds another coupla laps around the place to re-start. Some churches are so small, it can be a problem just getting back to the cameras.

During the Ceremony I have to start the cameras WAY early, so I can be ready for the Bride arrival. A real problem when the Bride is late. Been caught running back "100 metres or more" to restart cause she's late, then miss the arrival.......

Makes me think that I should go back to two camera weddings only, one hand held shoulder mounted, one on sticks. End up with a heap of panning and zooming. Not a fan!

Whew, decisions, decisions! I'm so "confusement"!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Camcorders only
 

Gday Chris! I'm guessing you have someone with you!!?? Or do you manage on your own with that set up?

Re: Camcorders only
 

I use one of my Panasonic video cams for a continuous wide angle base shot of the ceremony and speeches. That is then used as the editing base on the timeline, with the FZ1000 footage synched to it along with a base audio track from one of the audio recorders. If I am using both FZ1000s, one is locked off and I use the remote control app to monitor it and restart if necessary. I can also adjust the zoom if I want to change the framing, without having to move from my main tripod.

Roger

Re: Camcorders only
 

Surely movement and imagination is what good creative camerawork is all about, whereas a load of cameras locked off on tripods is more like cutting together cctv footage. I feel that quickly moving to something that shows emotion or reacting to the bridesmaids giggling during the ceremony, or perhaps a close up of child peering around the corner of a pew, is what helps to tell the story and make it very personal. Less can often me more in the right hands!

Roger

Re: Camcorders only
 

Keep talking Roger! You could convince me to simplify things.
I would probably leave one camera locked on to a medium shot of the bride and bridesmaids. So one in aisle, one on bride and bridesmaids and one on shoulder or hand held.

Re: Camcorders only
 

I am using 1 AX100 and various other mirrorless, G7, A7R II.

I would take the form factor of the AX100 all day long if it performed better in low light, it is a joy to use.

Re: Camcorders only
 

Hi Jack

Nope I work solo and yes a simple setup works best for me too. Action cam high up on a light stand and then one FZ on a tripod (that carries the two receivers for audio too and the 2nd FZ is handheld ...it works and it's simple. Never had a bride complain either!

Re: Camcorders only
 

After reading these posts, it’s surprising how many are using the AX100 cam. In a way, what is even more surprising, is how few discussion posts there have been about it.

There are several things I like about the AX100 but the best thing is there is no ‘gotcha feature’. It may not be the most complete cam out there but the good thing is there aren’t any bad surprises. A few things could have been better, like the difficult to reach Focus Magnifier button, but that’s not a deal breaker. It’s a very handy package.

No-one has mentioned the AX33 and it’s B.O.SS system. It uses the same NP-FV70 battery as the AX100. It would seem that it would make a good B-cam. 1/2 inch sensor.

And speaking of batteries,
Answer: Yes, they both use the same NP-FV70 battery.

Re: Camcorders only
 

And more can mean more in the right hands too. Why should using 4 cameras instead of 2 prevent you from getting those shots of the Bridemaids giggling. I run 4-5 cameras and regularly get these very shots you describe. I've edited someone who filmed with 2 cameras and I'd say less equalled less in his case. 4 cameras doesn't necessarily equate cctv footage either. Sure having it up high and wide does give that effect, but keeping it lower and with longer focal lengths and for a 5-10 second cut can look as if someone else was filming from a different angle, especially with 4K allowing some movement in shot. Cutting to a camera at the back on closeup of the Bride and Groom or on wide, plus another on the Grooms side gives 2 other v useful angles already. Like any part of Videography, there is a skill to running 3-4 cameras. It can be used badly, but also used to great effect giving you more options than any 2 camera setup can afford. Given how limited so many venues can be - churches I'm looking at you; I could never have delivered the professional results I achieved with just 2 cameras given some of the restrictions I was required to work under. Stuck at the back, stuck within the doorway to the vestry with absolutely no view of the guests at all, stuck within a pew with just a view of the couple and told not to stand up by the choir!! Those extra cameras made all the difference then.

Thing is Jack, your setup is too complex running too many cameras with time limits. I have 2 cameras with continuous recording and I set these recording 15 minutes before the Bride arrives along with several recorders. I then don't have to worry about them until after the service is finished. That just leaves my main camera and 1 I operate with me also on wide angle at the front to worry about. Some cameras are placed in positions I can't hope to reach. One church, in order to gain access to the balcony, I had to climb a ladder and get through a small trap door. No way was I going to do that again after the Bride arrived. You don't necessarily need less, just make your other cameras do the work and run continuously uninterrupted.

I suppose its one of those workhorse cameras that gets overlooked when compared to flashier cameras. Great they use the same batteries as the X70. I'm sure thats the right way to go.

Re: Camcorders only
 

Late brides are the bain of my life as all that time waiting to catch 'the arrival' (and this year on several occasions the bride has been well over a half hour late) you could be in the church filming lots of good stuff instead of simply staring down a road waiting to see a roller coming round the bend!

As a solo shooter I have 2 strategies of dealing with this - one is to get the father of the bride to call me when they are on their way so the most I'll have to wait is 5 minutes, the downside of this is they forget and you miss the arrival - it's happened more than once! The other thing I do is mount a GoPro where the wedding cars are going to park up - works nearly every time so If I'm inside filming guests I can nip out every few minutes and see if she's arrived - If I miss the actual arrival my GoPro gets it - as in this shot where I gaffa taped my GoPro to a stone pillar.

Pete

Re: Camcorders only
 

That's how I work, 1 or 2 camera's locked to a fixed position and one handheld so I can walk around and get candid shots that are impossible to get from a fixed tripod location.

Re: Camcorders only
 

Good tip right there Pete.
Time to dig out the go pro.........

Re: Camcorders only
 

I second that. Very useful tip. Worth it as I often miss Bridesmaids arrival if they turn up say 15 minutes before the Bride. I can't stand outside the church gate for 30 minutes to catch all the key arrivals. Roger would say it looks like cctv footage, but what the heck. Better than no footage at all.

Re: Camcorders only
 

Steve as solo shooters we have to compromise occasionally - I've used this technique successfully for a half dozen weddings this year. Sometimes this also gets guests arriving which I turn into a little time-lapse clip.

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I have an AX33 John but it doesn't cut it quality wise against the AX100, it's low light performance lags behind the AX100, I have actually stopped using it

Re: Camcorders only
 

Couldn't agree more. I plan to roll it out on my next Wedding.

Re: Camcorders only
 

Upon reflection, I think my earlier comments about my CX730 and RX10ii were a little harsh.

I decided to make up this comparison image - untouched and ungraded.

I think I had an unfairly poor opinion of my CX730 because for me its always a wide 'safety net' shot, and its hard to see much detail when you are so far away from the action. Used on a closer crop on the B&G, it's probably a fair option.

Still though, I'm tempted to switch to the a6000 for my wide, using an external recorder (like the Black Magic Video Assist) to avoid the clip length limit.

My wife came with me for the first time on Saturday and that is how I got the RX10ii shot - she won't be able to come to every wedding, and I don't do two shooter packages - but boy did it help! Took some pressure off at key moments!

In speeches, my wife's job was to stay on the speaker - I used the RX10ii on monopod to get reactions - it was so good to have the freedom to add in reaction shots to the edit without crazy fast pans from my main camera!

That said though - auto-focus struggled in this environment since there were so many heads and table top decorations. I'll go manual next time!

The have to say, I really like the RX10ii, but I'm worried it's noticeably soft against the A7s and A7sII, and my wife was using it for details shots, which really could have done with a bit more shallow DOF.

It certainly has it's place in my bag - just need to get clear in my head when to use which camera!

Re: Camcorders only
 

I understand what you mean, I have shot a ceremony with gh4,s only before and it's just something about the look I can achieve with these GH camera's that are just not possible with the cx730, where the cx730 outperforms the gh4 by a mile is ease of use, I can close my eyes and still go home with usable footage :)

I am a bit surprised though that your rx10II is softer then the A7s, even in 4K compared to 1080p from the a7s?

My rx10's (mark1) footage is a bit of a mixed bag, in good light the footage can look gorgeous but in lower light it goes downhill quickly and then I much prefer what my gh3/4 output, also the dynamic range of that camera is limited and windows inside a house often pose a problem as they blow out completely, just look at the 2 shots at 01:33 in the video I in this thread here, the window behind the bride and her sister is just one big white blob.

Re: Camcorders only
 

The image quality is noticeably inferior to that of the AX100 to the point where you would have difficulty intercutting clips. If you only had one camcorder to film your kids & kittens then I am sure that you would be very happy with he AX33. If you want to use a camcorder professionally then it's worth paying double for an AX100.

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Did you shoot 4K with the RX10M2? If not why not?:-)

Re: Camcorders only
 

Speaking of which whatever happened to Peter Riding?

Re: Camcorders only
 

For the AX100, besides the NP-FV70, you can also use the NP-FV100 which nearly doubles your battery life.


Mark

Re: Camcorders only
 

He left the forum around the time of the BVE; I only recall cos he instructed some of us to visit it to learn some humility, which coming from him was pretty funny. I think his setup was 3 or 4 fixed cameras he'd cut between, which is probably what Roger was thinking of. The application of just 1 moving camera can combat that effect, plus there's editing. If you're just randomly cutting between 3 cameras as he did, it can look very cctv like, but if you cut to other cameras at the right point, mixed in with moving shots from your main camera, the final results bare little relation to cctv in my opinion.