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Old May 13th, 2017, 01:29 AM   #16
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Re: Is this one of the Best Wedding Videos?

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Sure, some brides really want the drone footage and the stedicam shoot and 3 videographers hovering over her
That's not what they want, they want an experience or as in Steve's case, they want to have the same feeling they had watching the other videographers film. They apparently didn't get that same feeling watching Steve's films on his website so they asked him if he can make something similar which is why I said to him to be careful not to make any promises you maybe cannot keep. One of the couples said to Steve "I like the way it has been filmed. Slow fade in and out with close up", now here she is trying to describe what she thinks makes her to like the film but she is not able to, it is a bit more then just fades or even a drone, it's not only the way a wedding is shot, a "look" like shooting with full frame camera can play a small part of it, the way shots are framed, how good the use of sound was, how it was edited and how emotional it was, some emotions just happen but you need to be lucky there, that's why some videographers ask to read out loud loveletters so they at least have "a story" and with a bit of luck some tears while reading those letters and that's the way you draw in new clients because they get emotional just watching the film. Those are also the type of clients who are willing to pay you more then your competitors if you are able to evoke feelings while watching your films that they did not feel while watching with your competitor films.

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(in fact mostly photographers) have decided to do wedding video now and they are furiously in competition with each other and the only way they can fight their way to the top of the pile is offer new stuff.
That's because they lack the talent to make a compelling film so they need to compensate with gear, I have seen them in Belgium as well, photographers starting to offer video and one of them has a picture on his frontpage taken from a higher perspective with a drone and you see a weddingcouple in the frame and in photoshop he has added a drone which takes up the largest part of the image. Then in big letters it says, new in 2017! weddingvideo with a drone! but if you look at his portfolio there are only photos but no video...
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Old May 13th, 2017, 02:29 AM   #17
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Re: Is this one of the Best Wedding Videos?

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
That's not what they want, they want an experience or as in Steve's case, they want to have the same feeling they had watching the other videographers film. They apparently didn't get that same feeling watching Steve's films on his website so they asked him if he can make something similar which is why I said to him to be careful not to make any promises you maybe cannot keep.
Actually my website has no examples. It will have very soon. An oversight when I remade my website last year when funds were tight and I could afford few pages. That said, you're right they do see my examples, albeit via a DVD I send them.

I've only recently ventured into more elaborate Highlight videos. Until last year, my short videos online were Trailers, with the vows sometimes as background audio along with music. However hastily put together soon after the Wedding as a taster, rather than something specially created as a Highlights of the Day video.

That has changed and I'm still finding my style and voice with these videos. Which is why I welcome taking them a step further with these enquires. They are a step above what I usually do and an interesting experiment in what I can achieve with a little more time and resources. However, as Noa says, there is a risk in promising something I can't deliver. However as long as there is a good dialogue and the client knows the limitations every step of the way, then hopefully we both benefit from the work.

Working the budget Weddings can carry it's own rewards, but sometimes, I'd like to take on projects that push me beyond just delivering a full length video and a basic Highlights video. Sure I can play it safe and stick to what works and deliver to those who expect only what I've done in the past, but I prefer to be challenged more. At least for now.

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That's because they lack the talent to make a compelling film so they need to compensate with gear..
Not always, some just like playing with toys. I know I do, which is why I often get tempted by something I see online and hit purchase, often without always thinking if I have the time or talent to use it. Still there's always eBay for when I get it wrong. :)
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Old May 13th, 2017, 02:55 AM   #18
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Re: Is this one of the Best Wedding Videos?

It's right not all who use special gear have to compensate for lack of talent, I was specifically referring to most photographers who are adding video to their services, they often cannot compete with established videograpers so they need to use these gadgets to get noticed. Guys like Ray Roman who charge more then 10K for a wedding have started to add drone shots to their films as well, most likely because his clients are starting to expect it because they see drone shots in other, much cheaper, weddingvideographer films. He also might have to use it to keep up with the competition and to give his clients the feel they are getting their moneys worth.
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Old May 13th, 2017, 04:06 AM   #19
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Re: Is this one of the Best Wedding Videos?

Having watched the video all the way through, I am finding it difficult to relate it to the real life world. It is beautifully filmed, superbly edited and a complex mix of emotion, music and impressive use of slow motion, drone footage, very shallow dof and time shifting. It is the sort of thing that couples will look at and think 'that is beautiful'.

Those are the positives that I see and for what the producers set out to achieve, I really can't fault it in anyway. However, it is a highly specialised product that is aimed at third party viewers of a couple who would appear to love being stars in their own cinematic film and have the money to afford it. It creates emotion in others viewing the video who have no connection with the couple whatsoever, so from that point of view it is a great piece of cinema and can also be admired by other video producers.

It bears no relation to what my clients want to see and it is highly constructed and contrived. My clients would be mortified if this was their only wedding video as it doesn't contain anything of what they would want to see and hear. When watching it, they want to see and hear what is going on around them, see the relations that have travelled miles to be there, hear all the laughter and fun during the dancing, hear what the guitarist at the reception was actually singing and all the chatter and fun that the girls had during the preps. The list is endless and the video doesn't inspire me to want to emulate it in any way, even while I am admiring it for what it is.

A wedding is sometimes the only chance that couples have to get all their family and friends together and something that is a memory for the rest of their lives together. If a couple came to me and said they wanted their wedding video to be like the one Steve has posted, I would try first to explain to them how much they would be missing and show them examples of that, but I would also tell them that if it was something they really wanted, it would cost them accordingly and would not be just a matter of filming their day as it happens and would require much more time and input from them.

The problem with this style and competence of video is that it creates an instantaneous emotional response which is admirable as a production, but can also turn the heads of couples who have no real idea of what they would want to see afterwards and can possible have a negative effect on the numbers who actually opt for a wedding video when they see what is involved in getting the 'dream' video.

It is not a wedding video, it is a film about a wedding. I repeat that it is a superb piece of work that I greatly admire, but not something I would be interested in producing.

Roger
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Old May 13th, 2017, 05:14 AM   #20
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Re: Is this one of the Best Wedding Videos?

I agree Roger

One of the most popular segments of our videos is what we term the "shout out" where guests get to send comments to overseas people watching and it makes the overseas people feel like they are there...it's chaotic and crazy and certainly not in the least bit cinematic or a wedding film but hugely popular and our couples love it. Not all brides want a wedding film which is often a videographer showing off his skills rather than a genuine reflection of the wedding day and guest interaction.

I have great respect for people who have this awesome talent to produce a romantic wedding film but it's never been my cup of tea. Different strokes for different folks and thank goodness all brides are not the same!!
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Old May 13th, 2017, 05:20 PM   #21
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Re: Is this one of the Best Wedding Videos?

That's interesting Chris as one of the the most popular bits of the weddings we film is a section where I take a small handheld camera around the tables and get guests to say something spontaneous for the couple to see. It is sometimes hilarious and sometimes rude, always very wobbly but the guests love doing it and the couple love watching the messages. The quality is totally irrelevant as it is a few minutes of pure fun.

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Old May 13th, 2017, 08:06 PM   #22
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Re: Is this one of the Best Wedding Videos?

Hi Roger

Even before we started doing weddings live we also go around tables. One bride actually said "I booked you because you are the only person that does the talking thing" I guess she meant the round the table guest comments?

Nice to know that some brides still appreciate the simpler things and don't base their video choice on how arty and cinematic a wedding video is. Then again reading the Cell Phone thread here makes one wonder how long it will be before guys will be shooting weddings on their Galaxy 8 Plus phones.. and their video cameras will be lying in the cupboard gathering dust?

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/open-dv-...s-cameras.html
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Old May 14th, 2017, 01:41 AM   #23
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Re: Is this one of the Best Wedding Videos?

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Then again reading the Cell Phone thread here makes one wonder how long it will be before guys will be shooting weddings on their Galaxy 8 Plus phones.. and their video cameras will be lying in the cupboard gathering dust?
You could say the same about using gopro's, in good light conditions they also give a good image quality and why not? They are point and shoot camera's, always in focus, easy to transport and you can place them in about any place or position but honestly, who in his right mind would think of only using gopros at a wedding and the same applies for a smartphone. Sure there could be a place for both devices to use at a wedding but only to complement other main camera's that carry the most important load. You are just in for a world of pain trying to make changes to your smartphone on the fly, they are not made for this kind of thing. I would never even think of using them unless all my camera's at a wedding would simultaneously die and only my smartphone would work, only then I"d take it out and start shooting.

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That's interesting Chris as one of the the most popular bits of the weddings we film is a section where I take a small handheld camera around the tables and get guests to say something spontaneous for the couple to see. It is sometimes hilarious and sometimes rude, always very wobbly but the guests love doing it and the couple love watching the messages. The quality is totally irrelevant as it is a few minutes of pure fun.
I did that in the past but a family member came with me as an interviewer and I gave them a handmicrophone, eventually I stopped doing it because guests where often caught off guard, didn't know what to say or where annoyed about it. Now I have a paid option where I stay an hour after the first dance to record peoples best wishes from a fixed location, I set up my camera, have a wireless mike ready and ask the dj to announce where I"m standing and what the intention is, I also ask the couple to push the guests to come and say something.

One thing I don't agree with is that the quality is totally irrelevant, if that would be the case, why would they need you to shoot it? They could do it themselves just passing a cell phone around. I too often see people justifying bad video or audio quality because all that matters is the content, that's why people hire a professional videographer because they want something better then what uncle Bob can provide them. If you allow your productionquality to go down to a uncle Bob level then I can understand why some fear cell phones because the guests at a wedding can do the same as you do.
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Old May 14th, 2017, 09:30 AM   #24
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Re: Is this one of the Best Wedding Videos?

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Originally Posted by Chris Harding View Post

Nice to know that some brides still appreciate the simpler things and don't base their video choice on how arty and cinematic a wedding video is.
As with any Business model, there are broad ranges of customers with different demands and needs. Does MacDonalds chase customers who love Chinese Food or prefer 5* Restaurants. No, it knows it customer range and markets to them. I have clients who book my Marryoke only package and nothing in the World will convince them to add even say just Ceremony filming, which they could do quite cheaply. Its just not what they want. However I have other clients who find the whole idea of a Marryoke tacky and cherish a long full length video. So I get to see two different sides of clients.

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Then again reading the Cell Phone thread here makes one wonder how long it will be before guys will be shooting weddings on their Galaxy 8 Plus phones.. and their video cameras will be lying in the cupboard gathering dust?
Clients don't hire equipment, they hire Professionals, and Professionals choose the gear. Will some choose a Phone - sure, and I bet some have even tried it. However more I think for the whole gimmick of the thing rather than say because it's a great tool for the job. My GH5 has a whole range of Professional features, but some would argue the form factor is contrary to Professional filming. So you can imagine where a phone would sit.

It's been a long time since I've felt the need to explain or justify why I shoot a client's Wedding on a Photo camera, but I think moving onto a phone would be a harder sell. For novelty value maybe and if I could make the limitations less a restriction and more a stylistic choice that suited the type of video I was creating. However it would be a novelty that would quickly fade.

Video is always on the look out for innovation or the latest gimmick to rise above the multitude of videos out there; be it 3D, 360 degree videos or filming on a phone. If done well, it can be award winning, but it has to be done very well to make a mark.
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Old May 14th, 2017, 09:44 AM   #25
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Re: Is this one of the Best Wedding Videos?

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Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post
Having watched the video all the way through, I am finding it difficult to relate it to the real life world.
I have trouble relating any Wedding to the real life World, and it's my job. :)

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Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post
It bears no relation to what my clients want to see and it is highly constructed and contrived. My clients would be mortified if this was their only wedding video as it doesn't contain anything of what they would want to see and hear.

A wedding is sometimes the only chance that couples have to get all their family and friends together and something that is a memory for the rest of their lives together. If a couple came to me and said they wanted their wedding video to be like the one Steve has posted, I would try first to explain to them how much they would be missing and show them examples of that, but I would also tell them that if it was something they really wanted, it would cost them accordingly and would not be just a matter of filming their day as it happens and would require much more time and input from them.
I have several couples a year that book my Marryoke Only Package. They get to see none of what you quote. Despite seeing all my samples, they are steadfast. Hell, on 1, I offered a free Highlights Video and Ceremony included and they said no. All they wanted was the Marryoke.

That said, I think the video works well if included with say a longer edit. Certainly the 2 clients who have asked for this video have booked me to film their Wedding with the Full Length and 30-40 min shorter edit that I include as standard. They showed me this sample video as something they'd like for the Highlights Video that they also receive. It's not to replace a Full Length, simply compliment it.

Of course, some Videographers have packages that only offer a short 5-8 min Highlights video; not even adding a Ceremony and Speeches video. I've spoken to clients who had become quiet frustrated with this when considering a Wedding Video. Still if Videographers wish to shun the full length, that's good news for me and you. :)
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Old May 14th, 2017, 03:49 PM   #26
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Re: Is this one of the Best Wedding Videos?

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
I did that in the past but a family member came with me as an interviewer and I gave them a handmicrophone, eventually I stopped doing it because guests where often caught off guard, didn't know what to say or where annoyed about it. Now I have a paid option where I stay an hour after the first dance to record peoples best wishes from a fixed location, I set up my camera, have a wireless mike ready and ask the dj to announce where I"m standing and what the intention is, I also ask the couple to push the guests to come and say something.

One thing I don't agree with is that the quality is totally irrelevant, if that would be the case, why would they need you to shoot it? They could do it themselves just passing a cell phone around. I too often see people justifying bad video or audio quality because all that matters is the content, that's why people hire a professional videographer because they want something better then what uncle Bob can provide them. If you allow your productionquality to go down to a uncle Bob level then I can understand why some fear cell phones because the guests at a wedding can do the same as you do.
It all depends on how you approach it Noa and what you are comfortable with. Apart from video and photography, I have also spent over 50 years of my life as an entertainer and am very used to quick banter and making people feel at ease. The whole point of my instant sudden messages is that people are off guard and you have to pick the first one carefully after observing people. Once the first one has reacted, they all want to say something, sometimes with light hearted banter prompting and sometimes with their table companions encouraging them loudly. I would never use a hand mic or an assistant as that kills the sponteneaity, and part of the fun when watching it is that it is all full of quick movements from one to the other and people sticking their faces into the camera and having fun. That is why the quality is irrelevant, as it is probably more akin to the look of a cellphone, a bit jerky and low tech. It is a total contrast to the rest of the video which is why it works so well and the skill is in being able to choose the right people and being able to instantly motivate them without any discomfort for them. I wouldn't suggest everyone should do it, but it works well for me and is often something I get asked to do when potential clients see it :-)

Roger
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Old May 14th, 2017, 03:58 PM   #27
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Re: Is this one of the Best Wedding Videos?

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Originally Posted by Steve Burkett View Post

Of course, some Videographers have packages that only offer a short 5-8 min Highlights video; not even adding a Ceremony and Speeches video. I've spoken to clients who had become quiet frustrated with this when considering a Wedding Video. Still if Videographers wish to shun the full length, that's good news for me and you. :)
I'll second that :-)

Roger
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Old May 14th, 2017, 08:15 PM   #28
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Re: Is this one of the Best Wedding Videos?

It also depends if you are a "hide in the shadows" videographer or an interactive one. I have seen videographers (we were doing photos on that occasion) who barely said a word all night and spent most of his time quietly sneaking up and taking shots when he could. Like Roger I'm very interactive with not only the bridal party but also all the guests too ... I chat to them, laugh with them and mingle with them so doing fun comments are totally natural for me and I guess they also feel comfortable too. If you are shy and reserved then doing what I call "guest comments" wouldn't be a good idea!
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Old May 16th, 2017, 06:05 AM   #29
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Re: Is this one of the Best Wedding Videos?

The problem you will face is people ask if you can do that. Sure we all can but then you quote them the cost of it.

We offer drone, using a 3rd party, licenced operator. Thats another 700 plus our markup.

We spend a lot of time dealing with people who love our work, tell us were too expensive, go away and then a couple of months come back asking if were still available as they were wrong when they thought they could get the exact same thing for 500.

Decent cameras, decent lenses, trained staff and the time it takes to make a decent film all cost money.

Were also one of those who only offer a 7 minute film with everything else optional. It's just the market we chose to target.
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Old May 17th, 2017, 07:26 AM   #30
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Re: Is this one of the Best Wedding Videos?

Danny makes some good points. I took a booking this week from a couple who felt that we were 'quite expensive', as they had obviously seen much cheaper offerings. However, after viewing one of our typical videos, they booked without any further mention of price.

It's easy for a couple to see something like the video that is the subject of this thread, then knowing nothing about the complexities of filming and editing, will assume that any video company can do the same thing no matter what their pricing is. Why pay 3000 for it if there is a company down the road that will shoot wedding video for 300.

Having taken a wedding video booking a few months ago, we were asked a couple of weeks later if we could add a Marryoke for the same total price! As Danny said, they can have whatever they want providing they are prepared to pay for it.

Roger
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