Preview device

Ian Stark · November 25th, 2007, 11:42 AM

Looking good Jeff, lots of options here!

To answer your question, I think the key difference is that the monitor can be calibrated to show a true representation of colour, whereas consumer TV's are sweetened in different ways by different manufacturers to give richness of colour, tone etc. And therein lies the problem - different ways by different manufacturers.

Take a look at a bank of TV's in Best Buy - they'll be showing the same picture but you can bet it will appear differently on each screen. A good production monitor shows how it *should* be, ie true colours, which will therefore give your video the best chance of looking acceptable on the widest range of consumer TV's possible.

They also offer differing functions like the ability to turn underscan on and off, switch to monochrome, switch to alternative video sources etc etc.

And of course let's not forget that it makes your working area or studio look cool - all those screens! Lovely!

Jeff Harper · November 25th, 2007, 11:47 AM

I see what you mean, Ian, when you mention the bank of TV's at Best Buy, etc....dramatic difference between pics.

John Miller · November 25th, 2007, 11:52 AM

Another option for used equipment - university surplus stores. I live close to the Duke Unversity surplus store and often drop by to see what's available. I seen many Sony studio monitors for less than $100. There's no S&H involved which can save a lot of money on such a heavy item.

Glenn Chan · November 25th, 2007, 02:26 PM

Used monitors may be kind of sketchy... over use, the monitor's phosphors will get a little worse and there might be other problems. e.g. If you ever walk to a room full of old CRTs (e.g. libraries), you'll see that some of them have slight focus issues and so forth. Grayscale may not track nicely (e.g. display a black and white picture... does everything appear perfectly black and white without color casts?).

It's something to watch out for.

Ian Stark · November 25th, 2007, 02:42 PM

Good advice Glenn. On both occasions I collected from the seller and paid cash after checking the monitor out. I also had a friend run up a list of questions to ask the seller before bidding, that included burn-in and focus issues. If it wasn't so disruptive having to unplug the thing each time I went on a shoot (at least one or two days a week) and then put it all back again afterwards, I would use my field monitor, which was bought from new.

Jeff Harper · November 25th, 2007, 03:44 PM

Thank you one and all for your assistance.

Mike Kujbida · November 25th, 2007, 05:48 PM

Jeff, the JVC that Bill recommended is an excellent monitor. I put 4 of them into Vegas edit suites at the college I work for a few years ago and remain very happy with them.
I've also recommended it numerous times on various Vegas forums and no one who has bought one has been disappointed yet.
BTW, Color Bars and How To Use 'em is a great tutorial on setting up your monitor with the SMPTE bars in Vegas,

Sean Seah · November 26th, 2007, 09:56 AM

Just to add on, would a DELL 24" 2407WFP LCD be a better choice compared to a Samsung LA32R81BX 32" LCD TV for a preview monitor?

Mike Kujbida · November 26th, 2007, 10:12 AM

Sean, the Samsung is only 1366 x 768 resolution while the Dell is 1900 x 1200.
I bought the Dell earlier this year and love it!!

Jeff Harper · November 26th, 2007, 11:45 AM

Mike, with NO disrespect to your esteemed opinion intended, I run the 2407 as well. I do not like the way video looks on it....it is the reason I'm looking for a monitor.

Now, I do LOVE the width for my timeline...it's excellent, and the price is so low on them now...I would personally choose another monitor at this point...I like the kind with the (excuse the dumb description here) shiny surface...a friend of mind has an HP like that and images are so much clearer than on mine, similar to some Sonys I've seen, though I really don't know anything about them I just like what I've seen in a couple of quick looks.

And while it has nothing to do with Vegas, I can't (won't) watch a movie on the 2407 either, the ghosting, in my opinion, is so bad it is not watchable. But I was warned about that in advance.

I too am looking at a HD 32" TV to use as a preview device. While you, Bill and others helped me to understand the benefits of a decent broadcast monitor, I am going to purchase the HD set and try it out because it has to be way more accurate than a computer monitor of any sort, and besides, I don't have an HD television set yet anyway. I need to see how things are going to look on a television, since that is where my customers see the finished product I give them.

I should add I'm probably wanting too much too begin with. I purchased a like-new 24" Sony Widescreen Trinitron CRT monitor earlier this year (the same used by the crew of "300", they bought 50 of them from the same place I did) and sold it, I didn't see the benefit. It was so huge it didn't fit in my workspace well anyway!

Bill Ravens · November 26th, 2007, 12:47 PM

Jeff...

Thought I'd jump in here 'cuz I think you may have missed a point made earlier. While a 32 inch TV set will give you a nice picture, you've absolutely NO idea how this picture will display on other sets. This is because consumer TV sets do all kinds of unknown things to the picture. I've seen my own work look fine on my home HDTV, then look absolutely horrible on my neighbors. The only consistent image you can rely on is one that you view on a calibrated studio monitor. If a customer ends up with a bad image, you can be SURE it's not your monitor that caused it. If you use a commercial TV for a monitor, you won't be able to say it's not your fault.

My workflow is to do my CCing on a Sony PVM or Samsung 215TW. After I've finished, I play it thru on a JVC studio monitor to double check the results. If that looks good, I'll burn the image to a DVD-RW and play the DVD on my home Sony 32 inch HDTV. This process has proven quite reliable, for me.

Mike Kujbida · November 26th, 2007, 01:09 PM

No offense taken Jeff.
I should've clarified that I use it for Vegas only, not as a preview monitor.
The few times that I've stuck a DVD into my computer and played it, the video is so dark as to be unwatchable.
It could just be operator error on my part (might help to actually read the manual one of these days!!) but DVDs on my old tube-type monitor looked much better.

My only recommendation as far as an external LCD or plasma is to make sure it does real HD (1920x1080) at 1080p and not the faux HD of 1366x768 - or worse.

BTW, Sharp has two 32" Aquos models on sale at Best Buy right now, the LC-32D62U for $1299 and the LC-32GP1U for $1,259.99.
Both are 1080p and 1920x1080 res with lots of different inputs.

Finally, AV Science Forum is a good site to do some research into LCD monitors.

Jeff Harper · November 26th, 2007, 01:56 PM

Thanks, Bill. I understand what you are saying...I was set to purchase a monitor, but then....I got to thinking...that I could get triple duty with a TV.

First, my monitor is SO inaccurate anything would be an improvement. A monitor such as the JVC sounds perfect. In fact when I do buy a dedicated monitor, it will be the one.

But I don't need just a preview monitor, I need a table top unit to rent out to play slideshows, etc. I also need a television because my current home set (which at one time was a beauty) is old and looks awful and can't be relied upon to play DVDs with any degree of accuracy whatsoever, the images are dark.

So thanks, Bill for attempting to prevent me from missing the point of the production monitor...it's just that in looking at my overall needs (and my inability to purchase all of the items I want at one time) I thought that the small HD set would serve three functions while I get into a position to spring for the JVC or it's equivalent.

Thanks Mike for the tip re: faux HD!

Jeff Harper · November 26th, 2007, 02:05 PM

Mike, the Aquos looks sweeet for the money! I am actually looking at much lesser model http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/produ...94457#warranty since I will be using it primarily for SD...But I don't know...I haven't even laid eyes on it yet.

If the experiment fails, I will just buy the JVC you guys recommend and return the set. It is so great to at least have options now...when I put up my post yesterday, I had no ideas and was under the impression I had to spend $1000 for a cheap production monitor. I'm so glad I posted!

(I have seen the above television, it's not much, went with another model)

Bill Ravens · November 26th, 2007, 03:44 PM

Jeff...

yeah, I get what you're saying. Building up a studio ain't cheap. One step at a time, according to priority. I do the same.

November 25th, 2007, 11:42 AM	#16
Ian Stark Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 2,237	Looking good Jeff, lots of options here! To answer your question, I think the key difference is that the monitor can be calibrated to show a true representation of colour, whereas consumer TV's are sweetened in different ways by different manufacturers to give richness of colour, tone etc. And therein lies the problem - different ways by different manufacturers. Take a look at a bank of TV's in Best Buy - they'll be showing the same picture but you can bet it will appear differently on each screen. A good production monitor shows how it should be, ie true colours, which will therefore give your video the best chance of looking acceptable on the widest range of consumer TV's possible. They also offer differing functions like the ability to turn underscan on and off, switch to monochrome, switch to alternative video sources etc etc. And of course let's not forget that it makes your working area or studio look cool - all those screens! Lovely! __________________ www.vit-media.com www.classicmachinefilms.co.uk

November 25th, 2007, 02:42 PM	#20
Ian Stark Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 2,237	Good advice Glenn. On both occasions I collected from the seller and paid cash after checking the monitor out. I also had a friend run up a list of questions to ask the seller before bidding, that included burn-in and focus issues. If it wasn't so disruptive having to unplug the thing each time I went on a shoot (at least one or two days a week) and then put it all back again afterwards, I would use my field monitor, which was bought from new. __________________ www.vit-media.com www.classicmachinefilms.co.uk

November 26th, 2007, 02:05 PM	#29
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Mike, the Aquos looks sweeet for the money! I am actually looking at much lesser model http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/produ...94457#warranty since I will be using it primarily for SD...But I don't know...I haven't even laid eyes on it yet. If the experiment fails, I will just buy the JVC you guys recommend and return the set. It is so great to at least have options now...when I put up my post yesterday, I had no ideas and was under the impression I had to spend $1000 for a cheap production monitor. I'm so glad I posted! (I have seen the above television, it's not much, went with another model) Last edited by Jeff Harper; November 26th, 2007 at 11:04 PM.

November 25th, 2007, 11:47 AM	#17
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	I see what you mean, Ian, when you mention the bank of TV's at Best Buy, etc....dramatic difference between pics.

November 25th, 2007, 11:52 AM	#18
John Miller Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hillsborough, NC, USA Posts: 968	Another option for used equipment - university surplus stores. I live close to the Duke Unversity surplus store and often drop by to see what's available. I seen many Sony studio monitors for less than $100. There's no S&H involved which can save a lot of money on such a heavy item.

November 25th, 2007, 02:26 PM	#19
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Used monitors may be kind of sketchy... over use, the monitor's phosphors will get a little worse and there might be other problems. e.g. If you ever walk to a room full of old CRTs (e.g. libraries), you'll see that some of them have slight focus issues and so forth. Grayscale may not track nicely (e.g. display a black and white picture... does everything appear perfectly black and white without color casts?). It's something to watch out for.

November 25th, 2007, 03:44 PM	#21
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Thank you one and all for your assistance.

November 25th, 2007, 05:48 PM	#22
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Jeff, the JVC that Bill recommended is an excellent monitor. I put 4 of them into Vegas edit suites at the college I work for a few years ago and remain very happy with them. I've also recommended it numerous times on various Vegas forums and no one who has bought one has been disappointed yet. BTW, Color Bars and How To Use 'em is a great tutorial on setting up your monitor with the SMPTE bars in Vegas,

November 26th, 2007, 09:56 AM	#23
Sean Seah Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,498	Just to add on, would a DELL 24" 2407WFP LCD be a better choice compared to a Samsung LA32R81BX 32" LCD TV for a preview monitor?

November 26th, 2007, 10:12 AM	#24
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Sean, the Samsung is only 1366 x 768 resolution while the Dell is 1900 x 1200. I bought the Dell earlier this year and love it!!

November 26th, 2007, 11:45 AM	#25
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Mike, with NO disrespect to your esteemed opinion intended, I run the 2407 as well. I do not like the way video looks on it....it is the reason I'm looking for a monitor. Now, I do LOVE the width for my timeline...it's excellent, and the price is so low on them now...I would personally choose another monitor at this point...I like the kind with the (excuse the dumb description here) shiny surface...a friend of mind has an HP like that and images are so much clearer than on mine, similar to some Sonys I've seen, though I really don't know anything about them I just like what I've seen in a couple of quick looks. And while it has nothing to do with Vegas, I can't (won't) watch a movie on the 2407 either, the ghosting, in my opinion, is so bad it is not watchable. But I was warned about that in advance. I too am looking at a HD 32" TV to use as a preview device. While you, Bill and others helped me to understand the benefits of a decent broadcast monitor, I am going to purchase the HD set and try it out because it has to be way more accurate than a computer monitor of any sort, and besides, I don't have an HD television set yet anyway. I need to see how things are going to look on a television, since that is where my customers see the finished product I give them. I should add I'm probably wanting too much too begin with. I purchased a like-new 24" Sony Widescreen Trinitron CRT monitor earlier this year (the same used by the crew of "300", they bought 50 of them from the same place I did) and sold it, I didn't see the benefit. It was so huge it didn't fit in my workspace well anyway!

November 26th, 2007, 12:47 PM	#26
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Jeff... Thought I'd jump in here 'cuz I think you may have missed a point made earlier. While a 32 inch TV set will give you a nice picture, you've absolutely NO idea how this picture will display on other sets. This is because consumer TV sets do all kinds of unknown things to the picture. I've seen my own work look fine on my home HDTV, then look absolutely horrible on my neighbors. The only consistent image you can rely on is one that you view on a calibrated studio monitor. If a customer ends up with a bad image, you can be SURE it's not your monitor that caused it. If you use a commercial TV for a monitor, you won't be able to say it's not your fault. My workflow is to do my CCing on a Sony PVM or Samsung 215TW. After I've finished, I play it thru on a JVC studio monitor to double check the results. If that looks good, I'll burn the image to a DVD-RW and play the DVD on my home Sony 32 inch HDTV. This process has proven quite reliable, for me.

November 26th, 2007, 01:09 PM	#27
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	No offense taken Jeff. I should've clarified that I use it for Vegas only, not as a preview monitor. The few times that I've stuck a DVD into my computer and played it, the video is so dark as to be unwatchable. It could just be operator error on my part (might help to actually read the manual one of these days!!) but DVDs on my old tube-type monitor looked much better. My only recommendation as far as an external LCD or plasma is to make sure it does real HD (1920x1080) at 1080p and not the faux HD of 1366x768 - or worse. BTW, Sharp has two 32" Aquos models on sale at Best Buy right now, the LC-32D62U for $1299 and the LC-32GP1U for $1,259.99. Both are 1080p and 1920x1080 res with lots of different inputs. Finally, AV Science Forum is a good site to do some research into LCD monitors.

November 26th, 2007, 01:56 PM	#28
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Thanks, Bill. I understand what you are saying...I was set to purchase a monitor, but then....I got to thinking...that I could get triple duty with a TV. First, my monitor is SO inaccurate anything would be an improvement. A monitor such as the JVC sounds perfect. In fact when I do buy a dedicated monitor, it will be the one. But I don't need just a preview monitor, I need a table top unit to rent out to play slideshows, etc. I also need a television because my current home set (which at one time was a beauty) is old and looks awful and can't be relied upon to play DVDs with any degree of accuracy whatsoever, the images are dark. So thanks, Bill for attempting to prevent me from missing the point of the production monitor...it's just that in looking at my overall needs (and my inability to purchase all of the items I want at one time) I thought that the small HD set would serve three functions while I get into a position to spring for the JVC or it's equivalent. Thanks Mike for the tip re: faux HD!

November 26th, 2007, 03:44 PM	#30
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Jeff... yeah, I get what you're saying. Building up a studio ain't cheap. One step at a time, according to priority. I do the same.