John,
When i was talking to Tiger about my build we discussed the P6T, P6T Deluxe, and P6T Deluxe V2 boards and the V2 has no SSD support because according to Tiger, they had issues with the SSD controller on the to previous versions of this series. Since I wasn't planning to do SSD I didn't seek clarification but you might want to run a few searches and see what the issues were. It might be something simple like limited compatibility of drives which is easy to work around, or something more complex like controller instability.
Harm,
Thank you for that link. That information was similar to what the Tiger reps told me but with much more information and specifics.

Sean and Joe,
Agree with you on this one. They are great for mobile editing but in general cost doesn't justify performance upgrades, yet.

Someone's going to have to explain this to me. Specifically, 'scratch' disk for what, exactly? And why should this only affect 'mobile editing' (ediitng on a laptop?)?

I'm remembering Windows swap files, but these days those shouldn't be used much at all in a normal system. Vegas uses temp folders, but I can't imagine any measurable speed increase from putting one on an SSD. Quick, someone try it!

All the constant re-writing can be hard on HDD, with solid-state re-writing is not such an issue. Also they are less prone to shock damage from being moved around, small drops, and the like. I don't know if there are noticeable performance upgrades as much as reliability upgrades because they don't get worn out the same way...

Gigabyte EX-58 UD4P board 12 GB DDR3 with 2.66 Ghz Corei7 Quad
(Hyperthreading equals 8 logical cores)
15 K RPM system drive and SATA2 storage.
Vegas 64 bit on Vista 64 bit Ultimate - tweaked for lean and mean.
I am finding that 95 percent of all my renders are at LEAST half real time if not faster regardless of the number of layers of HD. Nothing seems to slow this system down in the least.
I have not done any accurate or controlled tests, perhaps because the machine is just like a giant can of bug spray now, just point it at anything and yell "KILL!" and that's what it does, so render time just isn't even an issue anymore.

It doesn't matter what I throw at it, the video just melts under the giant rendering oven like butter.

Perhaps I am not a facts and figures person (more like colors and shapes) but all I know is that this system is NHRA ready.

Oh, and preview...it's just full frame rate no matter what you throw at it.
Nothing slows it down.

Jeff H in TX

Totally off-topic here but I just wanted to give a big welcome to Jeff.
I know him well from another Vegas forum and am sure the folks here are going to benefit from his years of experience and love of Vegas.

My experience with the i7 is different than Jeff's. Preview is somewhat better, but still pales in comparison to Grass Valley. With panning and cropping of photos preview is still jittery, add some film effects and it's little better than with an old quad core.

Rendering times are great. I've rendered hour long projects with color correction in 12 minutes. Preview sucks as it alway has with Vegas. I have run overclocked to 4.0 and no difference. AVCHD is absolutely terrible, and multicam forget AVCHD. I know AVCHD is not for editing, but still.

I love Vegas. But the preview is still pretty poor, and the i7 cannot make up for it. My video resides on a raid 0 array built with velociraptors, FWIW. Overall I am used to Vegas' shortcomings, and still love it and work with it 12 hours a day.

Ah, the joys of a new system that works!

I haven't written a review that glowing since I got a 25mhz accelerator for our Amiga. Wow! Real Time video! Well, almost.

I suppose I already mentioned why my own enthusiasm is muted. My old 32 bit Vista install really hasn't taken to replacing the motherboard too kindly, so I can't wait for 64 bit Win7 so I can do a new install.

OTOH, Folding@home is blazing away, using all 192 cores in my GTX 260! Why can't Vegas do that????

Really, come back when we get faster than real time AVCHD. Of course, at this rate, by then we'll all be making the transition to 3D, which will slow us down again by 2X.

Wow that sounds like a beast of a system. I would also side with Jeff Harper and say that my i7 system hasnt made a dramatic difference to my preview. Preview Auto is pretty much 35 the whole time, unless I start adding Magic Bullet. Best Full only hits 35 with straight un altered footage.

Does anyone think the Vegas guys will come out with a ahrdware based alternative for preview?

I have always heard that hardware ANYTHING for vegas is strictly off limits in order to maximize the compatibility & platform install base (and to limit some of the code complexity).

Joe, your complaint is my biggest gripe about Vegas. There must be reasons for it not being designed with GPU acceleration, I'm sure, but being on the outside of Sony as we are it is frustrating to contemplate, not knowing the reason. Nero, of all programs, has it. I personally don't install Nero or use it but once every six months, but their 3D DVD menu templates are awesome also. Not quite sophisticated looking enough to be used for my work, but it just make me wonder why Vegas/DVD Architect can't step up. The pitiful 3rd grade-looking templates are an embarrasment.

Ooops, sorry for the rant and going off topic!

Jeff Harper - I went hunting but can't find your specs (this thread has gotten quite long.) Can you remind me which motherboard and ram you opted for in your build?

Alastair- Same question.

Thanks.

I just did a multicam project with *.mts files and had no problems with it at all. I used Infiniticam.

One thing I have noticed. If I put camera 1 video on the timeline and have the properties set to the same that it is I can preview it with 'Best-Full' and get full playback speed. If I were to choose a setting such as 720x480 then I am lucky to get 1-5 fps. The slow down is then significant!

It is important to make sure that the project properties match the AVCHD properties or playback may be poor.

Also, in spite of CPU requirements I noticed that a faster hard drive seems to help a lot as well. I don't know how to explain that but if I use a slower drive the playback and even render will suffer.

I do not have the specs of my new system on here yet but one thing I did differently this time than in the past is I did not buy the cheepest components for my system. I did not buy the most expensive either. I simply made sure that the entire system would be reasonably fast with good components so there would be no bottlenecks.

I am not assuming anything about your system. I do not know what you have. All I know is that my system and the system(s) of certain others give the desired results and then some.

Something to consider. As long as there are those who CAN get the desired results then Vegas cannot be considered the culprit for those who don't! Sorry, but one needs to take a good look at their system including other installed softwares and apps and determine what it is about their system that is making it not like the ones that do get the results. Of course and as I said, there is also how one uses Vegas and if they use it in such a way to get the results or not.

That's my 2.1 cents worth...

Danny Fye
VidMus Video - Music Productions

Danny, I use 15k Velociraptors in Raid 0 array for my scratch drive and dedicate it to nothing but the video I'm working on. Workstation is pretty capable, i7 overclocked at 3.3 currently. I've run it up to 4.0 but for renders my heat went through the roof so I backed off to where I am.

Bryan: I have the Asus PT6 (or is it P6T) Version 2 and I forget the ram, but it was inexpensive and fast. The board is the most stable I've ever worked with.

Just got my new computer this week from CyberPowrePC.com. It's ASUS P6T Deluxe V2, iCore 920 and 12GB RAM. It's fast and stable.

Bryan, I think Alastair has a Dell.

The motherboard on the Dells is their own no frills brand/made for them. It does exactly what it says on the tin and not a thing more. I went for 6Gb of ram.

Jeff and Alastair, thanks for the replies. I had thought that perhaps you guys might not be running enough ram and that was why you were having issues but after hunting down your old post (below) I see you are running 12GB. Back in February, Jeff, you noted renders in half of real-time or close to "4x" as fast as your old C2Q system. Has your experience changed over the months? Are there other changes to your system or workflow that could be causing this? Thanks for any clarifications.

I was amazed with my Q6600 when I first built this system but have noticed over time that either my expectations have changed or my system is getting slower. I would imagine that it really is most likely a crossbreed of the 2. As my system can now do more, I push it harder and as I add more programs and hardware I also have more things running in the background taking available resources away from my active software. Of course upgrades could also be the culprit. Running software designed for a P4 or C2D on a C2Q system will always have pleasant results. Upgrading that software to newer versions that are made to run on C2Q or i7 will result in a plateau as the software begins to reveal limitations in the system design.

I think it would be really helpful to hear how your experiences have changed over the last 6-8 months and what may be affecting that change or perception of change and also if there are other changes to your system or workflow that might be affecting your experience.

Thanks.

Bryan, before I was talking about rendering m2t files, I am no longer shooting in HD, so I now render SD files, so an hour long project takes about 1/4 hour to render. I was also running at 3.8 gHz, but now run at 3.3. Clock speed is the variable for me. Re: ram I've never seen it affect much of anything with Vegas, but then I've always had enough of it.

I've read that Vista 64 is appreciably better than XP 64, at least as far as Avid Media Composer is concerned. I would think that also applies to other NLE's and uses as well.

Windows 7 is around the corner, as you observed. But I believe if you buy Vista 64 you get a free upgrade to W7.

Peter, thanks for the follow-up on that. Looks like it may be Dec this year or even as late as February 2010 before I upgrade so most likely it will be Win7 (64-bit) when I go that route. The client I was going to upgrade for has decided they are going to acquire a C2Qextreme or i7 64bit laptop for me to use for their projects so I will not be upgrading my system for awhile yet. This works out good because I just acquired some other equipment and was not looking forward to spending all this right now...

Jeff, Thanks for the follow-up. If I am understanding correctly, you did see a substantial benefit in rendering but are still not have a good experience with the editing preview window. Are you still shooting with the FX1000? I saw you noted AVCHD in a previous post, what format are you editing with? Are there other benefits you see in Vegas since switching to i7?

Bryan, preview is somewhat better with the i7, but when using effects it is only marginally better, not enough. That is why so many around here are still griping about there being no gpu acceleration available or hardware support such as is offered by other NLEs.

For example when I apply something such as vignette, which I use often, preview performance goes down a lot. Luckily I have used the effects I use so many times I already know most of the time they will look fine and I don't need perfect playback, but it would be nice. It's most frustrating when showing a clip on the Vegas timeline to a customer and the preview goes all stuttery during an applied effect.

I have given up using MB, I just use NewBlue, as it is so much easier to use in every way.

Rendering is dramatically better with the i7. I can actually say it is fast enough I don't need it to be faster, but then I shoot all SD as of now.

Epilogue: Studio XPS
 

I've been away from the forum for about 5 months, just catching up on the threads tonight and realized that I never posted my resolution to the funky eSATA port issue on my Dell Studio XPS 435MT box!

In short, it does work. Dell replaced my first computer which DEFINITELY had a faulty mobo. I was having issues with the second computer until I replaced the eSATA cable. There are subtle variations in the connector form factor that appear to make or break this technology. The second cable provided a snug fit (the first did not) and that did the trick.

However, I've found that the port only works when the external drive is powered on before the computer. The drive will not show up in "My Computer" otherwise. It's a less than perfect arrangement, but I've learned to work with it.

You can also try go to Device Manager. Right click on the device list to "Scan for Hardware changes". That forces to scan for the new harddrives. It works for me if my eSATA drive is not detected after plugged in.

Ya, my own experiments with eSATA proved mostly fruitless as well. We could almost tolerate that it required reboots (hardware scans didn't work), but then editors started reporting the drive would just disconnect in the middle of editing.

Anyway, with USB3 about to be released, there's no need for eSATA any more.

Dare I say this...my eSATA works as it should on my Dell XPS.....to a point.

I can swap drives and it recognises them no problem.
No need to boot first. That sounds like it has dropped back to plain old SATA for you.

The connectors are without doubt pitiful. You just have to look at them the wrong way and the connection drops out.

Also, I have my suspicions that eSATA is a resource hog as on occasion my pc can go as slow as treacle and I have to re-establish internet connections or open a fresh session as the current one will freeze.

Am hoping upgrading to 7 will smooth things out. Just need to find the time to do it!

new imac over the top?
 

I think this question is related to this thread--Apple is coming out with a new 27" iMac in November which has i7 chips (or i5, which are cheaper). I have not settled on what software to edit a big HDV documentary (30 hrs worth of tape and a script that won't be heavy on effects at all), but I'm leaning toward Sony Movie Studio 9 (platinum) or Vegas.
For either of these programs, is this overkill?
The more RAM the better?
Load it up or keep it lean?

I'm going with apple because, like I say, I'm undecided on software and like the option of going either way, even imovie or FC Express.

I'm on my SECOND i7 XPS Dell. e-sata works after "Scan for hardware". Recently however I started getting stuttery playback at all resolutions in preview. So I swapped the e-sata cable for boring 'ole USB and it played smoothely again.

It's also finicky about recognizing my Firestore and my fireWIRE HDD, restarts, scan for hardware etc.

I am happy to report however that my new Dell plays Solataire flawlessly on Vista.

Here's hoping W7 solves the HDD issues.

Question: We're out of luck with USB3 right? Or can it adapt to the older machines?

I went to the top level of Dell Tech support and never got this fix. I was talking to some big time tech guru in Mumbai, the guy gave me his direct line, personal email, and he was calling me every 5 minutes. Never got this fix. Finally Tom's Hardware clued me in and it worked...sort of.

Taking the i7 and Win7 plunge
 

Well, I have the parts on the way and am taking the i7/Win7 plunge.

System specs:
*EVGA 141-BL-E757-TR LGA1366 X58 SLI LE motherboard
*Intel Core i7-920 Bloomfield processor 2.66 GHz
*12 GB Corsair DDR3 1333 SDRAM
*Windows 7 64-bit Ultimate edition
*2x Hitachi Deckstar 2 TB HDD (Asset Drives)
*1x Hitachi Deckstar 320GB HDD (system and program drive)
*ULTRA X4 Modular 850W power supply
*Ultra eXo Aluminum case with integrated powerbar

Cannibalized from my old system
*2x NVidia GT 220 1GB video cards
*2x Hitachi Deckstar 1 TB drives (Asset drives)
*Pioneer BDR-203 Blu-ray burner
*Lacie Firewire 800 PCI card
*Lacie e-Sata Card PCI-e
*I/O Gear e-Sata/Sata II interface card

I am pretty excited about this upgrade. For those of you running the 920, mine is the retail and ships with Intel's cooler. Any thoughts on the stock cooler?

I can't remember what I did with the stock cooler. I put on a bigass Vigor Monsoon Newegg.com - Vigor Monsoon III LT Dual 120mm Fan CPU Cooler Socket 1366 Ready - CPU Fans & Heatsinks .

Joe, that is a nice looking heatsink. I have not had good experience with that particular vendor (shipping issues) but I will keep that cooler in mind. Thanks!

I didn't think Vigor did direct sales. But regardless, I got it from Newegg. Never a problem with them.

No i meant Newegg, I have never bought a Vigor product.

For speed, I decided to go with a thermaltake cooler from my local BB store. The black widow edition SpinQ.

Quick question on my operating system. I ordered OEM Win7 ultimate from NewEgg and got a "system builder" OEM version. I know OEM software comes without support from microsoft and have no problem with that, but I am completely unfamiliar with "system builder" edition. I understand the purpose is for people (or companies) who build systems for someone else. Have any of you installed using a system builder edition? Is there anything about this type of install that would give you pause? Anything I should be worried about? Thanks!

Bryan, I installed exactly the same version of Win 7 (OEM, 64 bit, Ultimate). Did the same with Vista, too. No issues whatsoever. Pop the DVD into your optical drive, reboot, and you're off to the races. And if you need support -- I'm not assuming you do -- then perhaps you ought not have bought the OEM version. If you need help, however, you have only a few hundred tech forums only happy to dish it out. :)

One important point that I don't really care about since my OS stays on one computer: you can't migrate the OEM version. I think the registration/validation is pretty much tied to your hardware setup. Aside from that non-issue, you should be fine.

$0.02,
Steve

This is off topic for this thread, but I noticed the System Builder is only about $5 cheaper (than the upgrade price). The killer for me is that they only sell either 32 or 64 bit in these packages. The system I need it for is older (32 bit), but will be updated one day.

No need to settle for the OEM version, which only has one disc as opposed to upgrade version that has both discs. Upgrade version can be installed cleanly. Reformat your hard drive, but do not enter the product key during the installation of Windows 7 upgrade; opt for later.

Google "clean install of windows 7 upgrade" or some variation of that phrase, and you'll find the instructions out there somewhere, as I did. Works exactly the same as the full version. It is in fact the same; the difference is in how you install it.

All retail-boxed copies of Windows 7 include both 32-bit and 64-bit setup discs. Furthermore, the "upgrade" copies of Windows 7 can be installed without an earlier operating system installed on the hard drive.

The "System Builder" edition of Windows 7 may seem cheaper - but then, you get basically no support from Microsoft when any issues crop up with your installation. The "System Builder" license, as defined by Microsoft's "Get Genuine" policy, limits Microsoft technical support to between Microsoft and the original system builder provided that the builder and system owner/user are not the same person. In other words, OEM and system builder copies of any Microsoft product are intended to be purchased by system builders who then resell or give away their just-built systems (along with any copies of the software used in the systems) to someone else. (The primary difference between the "OEM" and the "System Builder" licenses is the number of machines built for other people - the OEM copies are for larger builders who build dozens or hundreds of systems per week or month while the "System Builder" copies are for smaller-volume builders who assemble a few systems for others.) It then becomes your responsibility (as the original builder of the system) to provide technical support to the owner/end user.

Therefore, the "system builder" editions of Windows are inappropriate (and illegitimate) if you build a system for your own personal use. In this case, the only legitimate versions of Windows for people who build systems for their own personal use would be the retail-boxed copies.

The choice between the two depends on the quantity of systems to be resold or given away and the frequency of such resales: If you're only occasionally building a few systems here and there to resell to someone else, you'd need the System Builder edition; if you're regularly building a bunch of systems to resell to other people, you'd need the OEM edition. If on the other hand you are building systems for your own personal use, the only edition of Windows that's legitimate for your use would be the retail-boxed edition.

Upgrading tomorrow core i7 question
 

I'm getting ready to place an order tomorrow just wanted to make sure if everything on my newegg wish list looks ok. I have taken the advise of many of videoguys Videoguys Blog - Videoguys' DIY7.7: Intel Core i7 with Vista 64 AND Now Windows 7
and many of you here on this forum so here are my system specs:

1.Not sure which Power supply to get.
CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V or Thermaltake W0319RU 850W ATX?
2.ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard
3.Intel Core i7-920 Bloomfield 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Retail
4.Not sure which memory to get will either work which is better?
CORSAIR XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) or
CORSAIR XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)
5. (1)HITACHI Deskstar HD31000 IDK/7K (0S00163) 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
6. Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate Upgrade - Retail
7.Antec Nine Hundred Two Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ( or maybe something else any recommendations?)
8.Pioneer Black Blu-ray Disc/DVD

Coming from my old system:
1.(1)ATI Radeon HD 4800 Series 1024 MB
2.Lacie e-Sata interface card (to GTech External HD 2GB)
3. Presonus Firebox
4. Coolermaster cpu cooler don't remember the model #(not sure if it's compatible with i7 if not then I'll probably get either the Sunbeam CR-CCTF 120, Noctua NH-U12P or COOLER MASTER Intel Core i7 compatible V8 RR-UV8-XBU1-GP.
If I don't overclock or OC a little would the stock intel cooler be ok? Forgot to mention my NLE is Vegas Pro.
Thanks! :-)