Harry, new 8 core chips with 16 effective threads are on the way from Intel soon. If possible I would consider waiting to build with them. They may very well make the i7 look wimpy. And you can believe this: i7 do not solve all problems. I know, I am anxiously awaiting the new chips myself.

In case you haven't considered it also if you wait until after Windows 7 is released in October, you will not have to re-license. If you are currently using Windows 7 RC, then it is no issue. If you are buying a new copy of Vista for your new setup you may wish you had waited for Windows 7. The RC rocks. Win7 is the best OS ever, IMO.

Edit: I somehow missd the final two posts and see your stuff is on the way, never mind

I noticed that one can buy Vista Ultimate 64 bit and get a free upgrade to Win 7.

When you say "soon" approx how long are you talking about? My current system has a bad controller in that it is temperature sensitive (thermal problems) and needs to be replaced ASAP! So how long do I wait if I wait? Right now it is like one foot on a banana peel and the other one dangling over a cliff!

I will have the needed funds on my birthday 8/21 and will need to order the new goodies then.

I figured as soon as I build something then the next greatest thing would happen and then make it obsolete. Always does.

Anyway, got an idea on a real time frame?

Note: I heard something about this elswhere and the person said that there will be yet another new socket. I am getting sick and tired of this 'new socket' crap all of the time because one not only has to get a new processor but also a new and EXPENSIVE motherboard!

Good part of it all is the current I7's will drop in price. Bad part is what I buy now will have costs twice as much as it would in a few months or whatever. :(

Then if one waits for the 8 cores and reasonable prices the 16 cores will come out and it all starts over again.

One has to determine when to stop waiting and when to start building and hope the timing is right for the then current budget...

Danny Fye
VidMus Video - Music Productions

Don't know the details on free upgrades, or timeframes of that program. Go to Microsoft for that info. It seems at newegg only some versions come with a free coupon.

On the new Intel chips all I can find this morning is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_i9 .

Appears these are not 8 cores but 6 cores. I might have mixed up the specs with the upcoming new server chips. Not being released until Q1 of '10.

Good news is according to what I read is that the new chips will use the same socket.

Once that happens then one waits a bit for the latest bios to support it and then enjoy!

Meanwhile, I will be going with the I7. I am not doing anymore editing with this system (boredom!) until I get my new one built. I could clean up the place LOL!!! Anyway...

I was looking at some retail ones deciding if I want to build or just buy. I read reviews on an Asus - Essentio Desktop with Intel® Core™ i7 Processor Model: CG5290-BP007 at best bye and according to one review the person said it was designed as if a computer person built it instead of the normal junk. Something like that.

I looked at it on the Asus page and it looked like some kind-of wierd mess that I certainly would not build.

So I will build one myself like I always do.

Danny Fye
VidMus Video - Music Productions

Ya, now is a really bad time to be building a new Windows system. But if I had to do it, I'd probably go with a barebones Win7 RC system, then format and install Win7 when it's released 10/22/09.

Note that Win7 RC is only available for download until 8/20/09, so get a copy NOW if you may need it. Know also that it cannot be upgraded to the release version, and it will expire (3/1/10).

I too learned years ago never to wait for a new CPU release. The record for me was one day in the 90's when I ordered one during lunch, only to read near the end of lunch that a new CPU had been released! You just can't live life waiting for the next big thing, especially since you won't be able to afford it until after a few price drops anyway.

Good point. The CPU industry is fast paced enough that by the time a given CPU is released, a newer and faster version is announced or at least leaked. So the "hold-out" for the latest and greatest will never buy - they will perpetually wait because something faster is always coming.

I tend to wait to the cost comes down a little, and there is wider adoption before jumping on a new processor. Gives you more motherboard options (if the case of a new socket) and allows the price of other components (Ram, coolers, etc) to catch up and come down some too. I will probably snap up an i7 early next year, since that will be about 3 yrs since last upgrade to core 2 quad extreme... depending on the price point of the new intel chip and if it has been released yet...

What do you think of this machine?
 

Costco - $1,099.99 after $400 OFF Dell Studio XPS Core i7-920 2.66GHz 512MB ATI Radeon HD4670

I don't normally buy 'off the shelf' machines, but this looks like a pretty good deal. What do you guys think of the specs -- what is this lacking, or what else do you recommend go into this one?

Or should I be looking elsewhere? Again, I've normally had my machines custom built in the past. The nice thing about that is that there isn't any extra crap (that bog down a machine) when getting a custom built machine. Insomuch as that, what can I do to get rid of the stuff that these 'off the shelf' machines come with.

I'm running vegas 8.0c build 260 currently, edit mostly HDV and have a very old machine.

I'd also like a duo boot as to be able to run XP.... advisable?

Thanks for you input --

That is why I bought an Alienware 5 years ago (or was it 6 . . .yikes this system is old!). All their systems (at the time) were delivered "clean" with no OEM crap software. HP / Compaq / Dell are the worst offenders when it comes to bundling their systems with loads of trial software, "helpful" updater apps, and "support" apps for buying accessories.

As others have said, some stuff might be ready to drop this fall, so unless you need it NOW, then sitting tight for a few months might save some $$$ till the pre-Christmas specials. Just be sure to record prices for the components now, so you will know if the retailer jacked up prices before T-Day and then "lowered them" back to where they were (I always suspected that retailers did this, but I never remember to check them on it).

Another thing to keep in mind is that nVidia CUDA extensions might be available in the future for the next gen of HD codecs (like AVCHD, MP4, etc). So if you are going to buy OEM, know your upgrade path and cheap out on the GFX card (since vegas doesn't use it any way) and buy the exact card you need for future CUDA compatibility should you have the ability to leverage some 3rd party software.

The shine of a Dell eventually wears off after purchase.

Problems that eventually come to surface, and that we've read about in this very thread:

Poor motherboard design, bad e-sata and/or firewire controllers. I've experienced the nightmare of poor firewire controllers from Dell, it was awful.

Inadequate power supplies that can/do cause myriad issues. I've experienced this too.

Limited/no expandability.

You cannot upgrade power supplies/mobos with these boxes, they are made to not be upgraded with non-Dell components.

When it is time to upgrade your mobo/chipset, you have to replace the whole unit.

Instead, buy a nice tower, with a large power supply, and put together a nice system and when a new chip comes out all you have to replace is the MOBO/CPU and possilby ram. If you don't want to do it yourself any Micocenter will assemble you parts for you for under $100.

At least two or three people in this thread purchased Dell boxes and unless I'm mistaken they regretted it.

Got a really nice system built for HD editing by avadirect.com about 6 weeks ago for $1,500. I am running Edius 5 with HDSPARK card for realtime viewing on an HDTV. Specs. are below except I added a P2 card reader from Amtron to dump my HPX170 footage. This required the system to be 32-bit.

ANTEC, Nine Hundred Two Black Mid-Tower Case w/ Window, ATX, No PSU

CORSAIR, CMPSU-650TX TX Series Power Supply, 650W, 80 PLUS®, 24-pin ATX12V EPS12V, SLI Ready

ASUS, P6T Deluxe V2, LGA1366, Intel® X58, 6400 MT/s QPI, DDR3-2000MHz (O.C.) 24GB /6, PCIe x16 SLI CF /3, SATA 3 Gb/s RAID 5 /6, HDA, GbLAN /2, FW /2, ATX, Retail

INTEL, Core™ i7-920 Quad-Core 2.66GHz, LGA1366, 4.8 GT/s QPI, 8MB L3 Cache, 45nm, 130W, EM64T EIST VT XD

CORSAIR, 3GB (3 x 1GB) XMS3 PC3-12800 DDR3 1600MHz CL9 (9-9-9-24) 1.65V SDRAM DIMM, Non-ECC

SAPPHIRE, Radeon™ HD 4830 575MHz, 512MB GDDR3 1800MHz, PCIe x16 CrossFire, VGA+DVI, HDMI,

WESTERN DIGITAL, 160GB WD Caviar® SE (WD1600AAJS), SATA 3 Gb/s, 7200 RPM, 8MB cache, system drive

WESTERN DIGITAL, 1TB WD Caviar® Black™ (WD1001FALS), SATA 3 Gb/s, 7200 RPM, 32MB Cache, video storage drive.

LITE-ON, iHAS324 Black 24x DVD±RW Dual-Layer Burner w/ Smart Erase, SATA,

SABRENT, CRW-UINB Black 65-in-1 Card Reader/Writer Drive, 3.5" Bay, Internal USB

CREATIVE, Sound Blaster® X-Fi Titanium, 7.1 channels, 24-bit 96KHz, PCIe x1

MICROSOFT, Wired Keyboard 500, Black, PS/2

MICROSOFT, Optical Wheel Mouse, PS/2 + USB, Black

MICROSOFT, Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit Edition w/ SP1, OEM

WARRANTY, Silver Warranty Package (3 Year Limited Parts, 3 Year Labor Warranty)

That does sound nice, but I would have preferred at least a 750 watt PSU, ditched the soundcard (I found the onboard audio of the P6t V2 is outstanding and frees up a slot) and I would personally have chosen a 64 bit OS and 12gb ram. All in all not a bad system Mark.

I've only purchased 3 Dells (2 laptops, 1 desktop) and they all seem okay. I got what I paid for. No real complaints, anyway.

But this really isn't the thread to be discussing systems; this is about the new Intel CPU, the Core i7.

This thread has evolved into most all things i7, including various builds and brands of desktops as it relates to the i7.

I should add the complaints about specific brands seemed to have been with regard to the lower end models, the bargain boxes. I have used Dell in the past, had half a dozen of them. I have used their business class support and found it to be the greatest.

I think a common problem occurs when purchasing a common desktop unit and attempting to use it as a video editing workstation. Sometimes it will work out.

However in my last experience I had a Precision and attempted to run the max number of drives the case would hold, plus 4 externals, I filled all of the card slots, and couldn't figure why it acted sporadically. I finally realized I was underpowered.

Even after I built my current unit with a 650 or 700 watt power supply (forget what it is) I ended up adding a second 500watt power supply to smooth things out. Of course my issues stemmed from overclocking, which everyone doesn't do, but that ability is what gives the 920 so much value.

This is the advantage of having a nice case, I was able to actually add a second power supply.

So yes, Dell, HP, any brand can work out fine, but if you are going to push your system hard it is a lot easier in the end to have a case in which you can swap components as needed.

Building their own isn't for everyone, of course, so I apologize for having been pushy about it previously. I have just found that for my situation building my own has worked out so much better.

I guess I'm confused, both Intel Core 2 Quad and Intel i7 Processors have 4 cores to my knowledge. What makes the i7 Processor more powerful? I'm looking to get an i7 powered machine but am wondering about the difference.

Lots of differences. A big die shrink (less power per unit of processing), and a new architecture that (theoretically) allows Hyperthreading on EACH core, for a theoretical (and highly dependent on the app) 8 simultaneous threads.

Why was Core 2 Duo a huge leap over Core duo when both had two cores? Lots of changes "under the hood."

I also think i7 finally uses a built in memory controller (like AMD has had for nearly 3 years) which greatly speeds up access from the CPU instruction / program counter (the part of the CPU that actually does the computations) to main memory (RAM) where the data being computed is stored.

Well, assuming I don't have to go to the potty room when UPS arrives and that my new build works and all, I will be a Core I7 user by this time tomorrow, 09-26-2009.

The only thing I hate is having to watch for UPS all day long.

The fun part will be building it once I get the goodies!

By the way, I looked at a number of Dell, HP's and all and having built most of the systems I ever had, I just can't stand that proprietary stuff they use! Horrible!!! If one wants to be creative and customize the system one has to pay too much for the proprietary stuff to do so.

A lot of the extra stuff is greatly overpriced.

Also the clutter on the C: drive from trialware to junkware is a no go for me.

And for a bonus, it is supposed to storm all day as well. At least it will be cooler...

I will let you all know what my results are once I get the new system built. Render test of HD, playability on the timeline and all.

I may be off-line for a bit while I build this critter.

Danny Fye
VidMus Video - Music Productions

Don't get your hopes up. I built one last week and on a day to day basis it's really no faster than our single core systems.

Oh, Vegas pumps up all 8 cores while rendering. But that bogs the system down (even when I kick it down to low priority), so I still do my rendering during breaks. It may render faster, but I just don't see it as a big deal.

Presumably this situation will improve as software authors, and the OS itself, learns to make better use of multiple CPUs.

Being that I am editing *.m2ts files and am not using any intermediate files I should get an improvement especially with rendering.

And even if I don't see any improvement at all I still have to get a new system because the current one has a bad Gigabyte controller in that it has thermal and probably cold solder joint problems making it unreliable.

Motherboard is a very good design but quality control went out the window on this particular model. Lots of bad reviews.

I originally bought a different MOBO from the Egg and it went bad and they sent me this one as a replacement because they no longer had the original one. At first that was a good deal because this one cost a fair amount more but since it had poor quality control it turned out not so good.

Also, my Windows install was for the original mobo and I took a chance to see if it would behave on this one and it basically did. Still, not the best way of getting reliability. With the thermal problems and the strange way of using Windows I had a double whammy!

The Windows is an OEM version so a re-install on another mobo wasn't an option that I thought I could get away with. Surprised I did this!

Puter always crashed after using Vegas extensively but not while using it. Am I lucky or what!

Anyway, performance difference in my case is a bonus if I get better results and considering everything and the reviews I read I probably will.

So now for my nightly nap so I can watch for UPS starting around 9 am in the morning...

Danny Fye
VidMus Video - Music Productions

Oh, thanks for the info!

By this I mean less electrical power (aka wattage) due to the reduced die size. Small CPU chip means less power wasted routing signals across long distances.

Thoughts and opinions on a new build configuration
 

I am considering taking the i7 plunge and have a configuration I would like your thoughts on. I am upgrading from a C2Q Q6600 2.4 GHz XP pro 32-bit w/ 4GB ram on an Asus P5N-E SLI. I am looking at splitting my purchase from NewEgg and Tiger. So here are the pieces.

From NewEgg:
MB: Asus P7P55D Deluxe LGA 1156
Processor: Core i7 860 Lynnfield 2.8GHz
Heatsink: Cooler Master RR-910-HTX3
Ram: Corsair 8GB (4x2GB) 240-pin 1600 DDR3 SDRAM
PSU: Cooler Master Real Power Pro 1000w RS-A00-EMBA
HDD:4x 1TB Hitachi Deskstar 0A38016
Case:NZXT Whisper
Optical:LITE-ON Blu-ray Burner DH-4B1S-08 or Pioneer BDR-203 Blu-ray Burner from Tiger
Card Reader:Vantec UGT-CR955-BK

From Tiger:
O/S:XP Pro 64-bit
Other:3M AKT90LE Adjustable Keyboard tray

Total cost of Build: $1981.67 with shipping.

Transfer from Previous Computer:
Video Card: 2x GeForce 9500 GT 1GB GDDR2
HDD: 1x 1 TB Hitachi Deckstar and 1x 750GB Hitachi Deckstar
Controller:FW800 PCIe card

So what do you guys think of this configuration?

The lone review on that mobo doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. I went with the tried and true 5 egg EVGA instead.

When playing a bit at overclocking, I discovered a huge X58 following on EVGA's forums also, making things lots easier.

Newegg.com - EVGA 141-BL-E757-TR LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX X58 SLI LE Intel Motherboard - Intel Motherboards

I don't know. going from a quad core to a quad core, even if it is a new architecture seems like you wont' get that huge of a performance bump for the money.

But if you need to squeeze every minute out of your renders, then I'm sure it will be an improvement. The real question is what is the $ per render minute and is it worth it?

Render is a big issue. For one of my clients I am preparing to reconvert their entire library to flash in 3 quality tiers it will be a render only project. Here are the benefits that I think I will see in the upgrade.

C2Q (4 theads) -> i7 (8 threads)
32 bit o/s -> 64-bit o/s
3.2 GB Ram -> 8 GB Ram
.... -> intel Direct Media Interface from new socket 1156 on new MB.

I missed that completely. But I agree it wouldn't be worth an upgrade. At most you might halve the rendering times, so instead of overnight, it will take... overnight. Unless you have a great need for a second workstation, forget it.

I also missed that you're thinking of WinXP 64 bit. A real Frankenstein's monster. Wait for Win7.

The this client sounds like exactly the kind needed to justify the upgrade. Just make sure you don't need the money for something else rather than planning ahead a bit more and pocketing the extra ~$1k. I still believe that the render differences (even with HT enabled) won't be so massive as to be double, but I could be wrong (since I have neither a quad core, or an i7).

I also wonder what your encoding scheme is and can it fully multithread to the level an i7 can allow? If you are rendering in vegas to AVC/h264 then I believe it can chew up all the cores, but if you are usign an app like On2 Flix Pro, I am less certain abut the encoders ability to multi-thread and hence make use of the additional HT threads.

Flix Pro and the ON2 VP6 codec are single threaded video codecs. That is the downside of this video format. No matter how many cores you have it just will not use them.

One thing we have done, although it is a tad buggy, is to encode multiple files with Flix Pro at the same time. We do this by running two or more copies of the program. They still encode just as fast but this way you make better use of your cores. Be aware however that Flix Pro is a pretty buggy program and sometimes it may not like to do this.

H264 is really the future of Flash with Flash player 9 and above and the best thing is that Vegas can already export this format.

So then is the Vegas h264 codec multi-threaded? I jsut rendered to it but did a network render to my render machine and forgot to check the queue when it was running to see if the machine's CPU was pegged or not. I haven't tried the avc/h264 render locally yet.

I will be rendering flash out with Adobe media encoder CS4 and it does take advantage of multi-threading.

The XP Pro 64 includes an upgrade to Win 7 on release. I really do not like Vista and am trying to bypass it on this round because I do not want to spend time getting cozy with Vista right before I get ready to switch to Win7. What issues are you familiar with in the 64 bit version of XP?

I decided to re-edit this one since it has been a brutal week and I haven't gotten enough sleep and I think my original wording could have been misinterpreted as ungrateful. Thanks to everyone for their comments. My Q6600 based system is being pushed to it's limits and I often seem to bottleneck around the RAM. I also have read that between the C2Q series processors and the i7 processors that you can increase render speeds 20% or more and supposedly with the new Intel Direct Media Interface and the i7 you can get up to a 37% increase in rendering speed. I also am having some issues with my preview window in Vegas Pro 9 and believe this to be due to my Ram and processor. Talking to many of the fine people on here, it is my understanding that most of the i7 users running 64bit with lots of ram have resolved that issue since 9.0a came out...

But getting back to the system upgrade I detailed before. ( http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/1362749-post343.html ) What do you guys think of this configuration? Has anyone tried any of these components out? Anyone built around the new 1156 socket, yet? How about XP Pro 64-bit vs. Vista Business 64-bit? Any other thoughts or advice? Thanks for your comments and opinions.

Back to the drawing board
 

I spoke with one of the techs at TigerDirect and according to him, the new i7 800 series are actually not much better than the high-end C2Q chips despite the improvements made in the 1156 socket MBs. He did say that the 900 series i7 on the older socket platform are significantly better than the C2Q chips even though they are less expensive so I am heading back to the drawing board on this build...

I have the reverse experience. Built my own Q6600 PC with a local shop 1.5years ago and it has been crashing non stop. Finally replaced the mobo and everything seems ok but now Vegas 8.0c will die in the middle of a render (OS works fine, render progress stops but remaining time goes on!!). Given up and I'm thinking of getting a DELL XPS only to hear the horror stories here! Yikes!

Sean -
I'd do a reinstall of everything - if you had a bad mobo, it probably means that most if not all of your installs are corrupted to some degree... need to have a stable system before you start installing software, otherwise you end up with bad files when things crash midstream - been there done that...

SSD + i7 + Asus P6T
 

anyone tried using SSD instead of HDD for running the OS. I am thinking of buliding my own i7 rig with a 128GB SSD for OS only. The video storage will be 2X1.5TB HDD on Raid. Mobo will be Asus P6T. Heard a lot of good feedback about this mobo.

Hope to hear some feedback before I spent extra on the SSD. Thks

Before you select either the i7-8xx/P55 or the i7-9xx/X58 platform, consider this:
Adobe Forums: Initial thoughts on Lynnfield versus...

Though I've not yet used an SSD for a editing rig, the performance of these devices varies greatly depending on the brand, model etc. As of now, the general consensus seems to be that the only two drives that have bring the most bang for the buck are the new X-25M Intel drives and the OCZ Vertex Turbo drives.

Jon

No way are SSD's justified price-wise these days. They'll save you a few seconds during boot, and they're surely the wave of the future. But they won't speed up your editing at all, and more importantly they won't speed up any rendering either! So what's the point?

I think the SSDwill work better as a scratch disk. something that requires frequent changes for mobile editing