Illustrator files into Vegas
 

I wonder if anyone is using Adobe Illustrator files in Vegas. I have got to a stage in a project where I need to bring a great number in and am planning at this stage to do so by saving to Photoshop (with transparency) and importing them via that. Initial tests indicate I may need to scale the Illustrator files up by about 9x to get a high enough definition and save at a high resolution - meaning big Photoshop files. I don't think Raster illustrations will come in.

Anyone had experience with this?

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

I just export as PNGs, 150 dpi. Or 300, but that's usually overkill.

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Thanks David.
Do you see a jaggedy edge at all?
What if it was on a dvd shown on a big tv or projected onto a biggish screen?
What scale are the Illustrator drawings done in? Actually...how do you determine what scale they are in :-) ?

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

No, no jagged edges. The dpi sees to that. For DVD, the bigger problem is usually too *much* detail, and a slight blur is necessary to prevent interlace flicker. (Not an issue for progressive display.)

I usually create things using a 1280x720 Video template, but that doesn't matter as much as the export dpi.

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

I was seeing jagged edges in the Vegas preview window even in 'Best"...

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

But what were you looking at? The Photoshop file?

Try exporting a 300 dpi PNG and see if you still see jagged edges.

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

No video editing applications truly utilize vector files to their full potential (even AE, which will pixelate vector files when you start scaling them up). Best bet would be to open the .Ai or .EPS in photoshop and export a .PNG or .TIF with an alpha channel.

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

My Photoshop won't open .Ai files (CS2) but I can export .PNG from Illustrator with transparency (a lot smaller files than .PSD).

Each segment (72 of) of the overall Illustration needs to be large when being introduced, then scaled down to fit in its particular place in the illustration. This initial enlargement seems to be an issue re resolution, and I've wondered how to overcome it - if indeed it is an issue...

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Renton, if you have Boris FX Continuum Complete (BCC) installed, you might be able to pull off a "cheat" without having to worry about rasterized images. Specifically, BCC's Extruded EPS plugin for Vegas will allow you to import an EPS spline, e.g., a path from AI, and extrude, rotate, light, etc. to your heart's content within Vegas. If you already know this, sorry -- I don't mean to sound condescending.

In your case, all you need to do is import the EPS file and stop, except to resize along X/Y axes if you wish. Even if you resize, the vector format within the BCC plugin will ensure that you always have razor sharp edges, subject to the limitations of whatever your render format is.

The only caveat (aside from your not having BCC in the first place), is to ensure that you export the EPS correctly from AI. For instance, I have exported simple splines and they work great. If you have many layers and/or complexity in AI, however, you may need to group the layers before exporting so that the BCC plugin won't mangle or misinterpret your spline. I have not tried this with really complex artwork in AI.

Does this make sense? It would relieve you of having to mess with rasterizing AI files to PNG, PSD, or whatever in Photoshop as an intermediate step.

Steve

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

I have BCC on my computer evaluating it for its Chroma Keyer. This sounds very interesting...have to go out now but if you have any more on this, let me know...Thanks.

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

hmmm...I don't know how to make the eps plugin work.

I see it...I can export my file as EPS...but I don't know how to get the file into vegas...

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

You need to bring the EPS file into Photoshop and save it as a PNG which Vegas will read.
I do this all the time when I get logos from print shops.

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Renton, if you were addressing me about the BCC plugins, not the posters above concerning the PS step of making a rasterized image (e.g., PNG), then you first should watch this tutorial by John Rofrano. You want to start watching at ~ 8:10 -- this 1/2 of the tutorial is about importing EPS files. In hindsight, I see that I might have misstated something: you use native AI files (see below). I've done this, but not often, which is probably why I made the mistake. Just watch the tut and you'll be golden.

I've made the assumption that you have the BCC plugins for Vegas Pro. It seems that you are evaluating them. If not, just totally chuck my idea into the waste bin. It ain't gonna work.

In general, you export the EPS from AI. (I think you can also just use native AI files, not necessarily EPS. This makes your life even more simple.) Then, add BCC Extruded EPS plugin to an empty event to your timeline in Vegas. Within the plugin, click on the "External File" button, select your AI file, and then you're in like Flynn. You can extrude the vector image -- which is a main part of the plugin -- but in your case, you don't care. You just want the artwork. All you need to do is scale it to taste within the BCC plugin. It will stay razor sharp because, after all, it is still a vector image. Ticking a check box entitled "Keep EPS Color" ensures that your imported artwork keeps the same colors as you designed within AI.

I swear that I can't think of a more simple (or any other way) to get native AI files directly into Vegas. A potential bonus is that if you want to tweak your artwork while editing in Vegas, then you tweak in AI, save, and then update the BCC plugin so it recognizes the updated AI file. With the rasterizing route (i.e., PS), you have to save your tweaked filed from AI, import into PS, save as PNG, then import into Vegas. Want another tweak? Then do it all over again. Ugh. I'd rather stay with one, solitary AI file.

HTH.

Steve

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Steven...Thanks. I'll watch the tutorial tonight and have a go at it all.

One clarification. You talk of 'exporting' from AI. Under 'Export' I have no option for exporting in EPS. However in 'Save As' I do. Is that what you were referring to?

As I said, I have BCC on the computer for evaluation. It is full functional. I will very likely be buying...especially if it does this...

Mike: Thanks. I'll check your idea out also...

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Renton, I'm still curious as to what exactly you're doing.

When I create Illustrator files, do them on the 1280x720 Video template, and then export them as PNGs. Exporting at 300 ppi makes them massively huge (dimensionally, not file size) and there is no resolution problem whatsoever. As I said, 150 ppi pretty much does everything I need.

Now, you DO want to export them as progressive and not interlaced. Perhaps that's part of the problem.

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Sorry, Renton, but I dashed off a reply so quickly that I mistakenly use the word "EXPORT." Obviously, "save" or "save as" within AI will allow you to save native AI files. No need for AI's export function.

Since none of us here are quite clear on what exactly you're trying to achieve, I guess you'll have to decide which of these workflows makes the best sense for you. If I wanted to dump a mountain of AI files of all different sizes into Vegas, would some kind of batch export/save to PNG make better sense? On the other hand, if you really want control over a sensible number of AI files, I think the AI-->BCC-->Vegas route looks good.

There are ways to overcomplicate tasks. I'm a master at finding them. I hope I didn't give you one. :)

-Steve

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

What am I trying to do? I'll explain...

I'm producing an illustrated teaching DVD. My main illustrations I've done in Ai. One of them in Ai has around 75 layers, each individual element in the illustration being its own layer.

As the talk progresses, this illustration will be built up by the addition of one element at a time at its appropriate place in/when it is being discussed in the talk.

The illustration in total with its layers doesn't need to be brought into Vegas. Each element will be brought in and overlaid over the earlier elements. Also, the earlier elements can/could be incorporated into one picture/imported file at certain points as the picture builds up - to save having heaps of individual files.

What is critical is that I want the illustration in all its elements, to be sharp, as it is in Illustrator...

The 75 layer illustration is going to be spread over four separate talks so each talk will have about 20 or so elements brought into its .veg file...

Is that clear enough?

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Steven...I must be missing something...

I save my illustration as an .EPS file. > Go to my empty video track > open track FX and pick BCC Extruded EPS > go to 'External file' and select the file I want > AND...

...nothing happens...no file appears on the video track...

OPPS...just remembered the tutorial...maybe that will contain the answer...

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Well...I discovered that you had to have an empty event on the time line...then tried adding my Ai and eps files to it and they came in as black lines only...so only partial success so far...

Also...eps files are large, as are Ai files...hmmmm

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Thanks David: When you say you use 'the 1280x720 Video template' to make your Ai files on, where do you find that?

I made my illustrations about 10 years ago - not long after CS2 came out - and was not aware of templates at that stage...I just did my drawings...I think...on...whatever was there...

Perhaps I can put them on a 'template' now...can I? Actually in 'Document Setup', it tells me the 'Artboard' is 444mm wide x 250mm high. Clearly at some time I must have defined the artboard because it looks like the widescreen size...

If I try exporting as a png, what goes out is the drawing in a transparent box that conforms to the outside extremities of the drawing, not the size of the artboard. Same goes if I export as a psd...

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Renton, now I see what you're trying to do. I can't explain the "only black lines" problem, unless your AI files are too old, i.e., not saved in CS5 flavor.

So, you want to animate on your AI drawing elements, one-by-one, layer-by-layer, upwards of 75 of them per illustration, in a selective fashion, and maintain graphic integrity. Right? Just totally forget my idea. Chuck it. BCC and Vegas is a dead end, as far as I can see, assuming I've got a bead on your situation.

Why the bleepin' heck don't you use After Effects for this? AE will ingest AI files, natively preserve all AI layers, and if you wish re-rasterize your vector images as you resize or scale. In essence, AE will do exactly what you're after. This sounds like a massive making for a headache within Vegas. If you don't have AE, I'm not trying to persuade you to BUY it, but having the right tool for THIS job will make your life so much easier.

One POSSIBLE alternative is to save an AI file as a LAYERED Photoshop file, then drop the PS file into Vegas, each layer getting its own track. In principle, this can be done. I have not done it in practice.

-Steve

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

It's in the new document setup. It's a template.

I'm sure you can select all the layers and copy it over.


That is normal. But the ppi you choose will make the image larger or smaller (and more or less detailed).

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Steven: Thanks. I don't have CS5 and I don't have AE.

Would I like them? Yes, I would. however I am doing this on what I consider the smell of an oily rag and have spent too much already over the last 7 years on this project, and have no returns yet. Buying CS2 years ago allowed me to digitize my images but it seems like it is out of the upgrade loop now...

But then...perhaps I've got this far and for the next stage I need some more appropriate tools...I want the thing to be top rate when done...

I did play with importing layered Photoshop files ages ago when that feature became available in vegas but was not at the stage I need to use it...I am now so I'll have another look...

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Renton,

1. When you export an AI file as a PNG or whatever (yes, using the "Export" command under the File Menu), the save dialog box has a checkbox called "Use Artboard." If that is ticked, then your exported image, e.g., a PSD file, will have the same dimensions as your artboard, not your artwork.

2. I think now you probably know what you need, per a number of options:

a. Copy and paste your AI file (all layers at once) onto a new document using a video-sized template within AI. Export as layered PSD, ingest as layered PSD into Vegas, animate, lather, rinse, repeat. Deal with any resolution hits.

b. Go directly from AI to AfterEffects, animate each layer to taste, export final animation(s) as PSD sequence, import into Vegas for finishing touches, e.g., sound.

3. It sounds like, at a bare minimum, you'll need to give your software lineup a fresh coat of paint. I guess you'll have to decide how much coin "top rate when done" should command.

Post back. I'd like to know what you decide to do. :)

-Steve

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Thanks Steven...very helpful.

I've thought about cs5 and done some looking on the web tonight and my system won't run it...I'm using 32 bit...don't fancy a complete system upgrade!!!

cs4 will run on 32 bit but am not sure how to get that. Asked my son in law if he can access it...

Further, while I'm a bit familiar with Indesign, Photoshop, and Illustrator, I have no idea what After Effects does. Also, I need to do some cartoon animation and I believe Flash can do that...

Just looked on the web for CS4 and this came up...know anything about it?

Buy Cheap Adobe Creative Suite 4 Master Collection

Buy Cheap Adobe After Effects CS4

Will check out how many layers I need for each talk. I'll be able to reduce the work vegas does by doing this...

There was no 'Artboard' tick box in my psd export window. I can change that in photoshop...

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

[QUOTE=David Jimerson;1723835]It's in the new document setup. It's a template.

Can't find it.

Tried 'New' and there were no template options.

Tried 'New from Template' and it put me in a template folder...with a heap of other folders...but couldn't see anything about video templates in any of them. Maybe cs2 doesn't have it...

Maybe I can make a template...

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Renton, if you found the websites below, then you could probably discovered what AE is/does. In brief, it is a powerful compositing and visual effects tool that operates somewhat like an NLE. That's why I suggested it for your project. Acquiring a rudimentary working familiarity with AE takes some time (at least it did for me!). If the prospect of learning another application doesn't appeal to you, then you might consider a non-AE option for completing your project.

Haven't a clue about these sources. Also, I'm pretty sure it's gauche for me to remark on them in this forum. I don't think they are a forum sponsor.

No artboard tick box in the export dialog window? Really? It's very small right at the bottom. Maybe CS2 lacked that extremely basic feature.

I don't mean to sound insensitive in the least, but your replies of late generally suggest that you're bumping against limitations of old software that really could benefit by updating. After all, your project started the better part of a decade ago, which might as well be the stone age so far as software and hardware is concerned. I'm not familiar with CS2 (as I jumped in with CS5.5), but everything that I have suggested should be (or could be if pointed in the right direction) rather obvious to a user of CS5 (and probably CS4) family of applications. I'm merely getting at what likely are improvements or features in CS 4/5 that are not in CS2.

Yes, you can make an AI template. But even if not in CS2, you can make an AI file with a particular artboard size, then copy/open/"save as"/rename as many instances of this file as you like. That's pretty ghetto, but it would work.

Finally, just wanted to say that I've bought and expanded my menu of applications, sometimes in response to creative needs for a particular project, then discovered that the applications became more or less essential. This applies to Vegas plugins, too. Yeah, you can just get by for years with a single adjustable wrench (= "spanner" in New Zealand?), but it's so much better to have a variety of wrenches. Right tool for the job.

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

'I don't mean to sound insensitive in the least, but your replies of late generally suggest that you're bumping against limitations of old software that really could benefit by updating.'

Steven...Thanks, you're probably right, but I don't think I can justify a total rehash of everything at the moment, and I think/hope I can do everything I need with what I have.

Sure it would be nice to have the latest but the project has not returned anything as yet. (Perhaps after it makes my first million dollars I'll upgrade!!! Everything so far has been justified on eventual returns!!!) If I really have to, I will, but I've done everything on the smell of an oily rag so far and am seeking to continue that...

I think I know enough now to proceed. Thanks so much for your help...

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

I'm just trying to process all this hardware software stuff we've been addressing and that I could running up against some limitations....

I have:
- A gigabyte S-Series Ultra Durable 2 motherboard
- an Intel Core 2 Duo CPU - E6850 3.00 GHz processor...so that looks alright as far as I'm aware.
- 2 GB of memory...hmmm
- an ATI Radeon HD 2400series video card which apparently has 256 mg of memory and drives my two monitors etc...
- a sound card...
- Misc harddrives - 2 lots on Raid - internal up to something like 3 TB

- run Window 7 Home...
- 32 bit
- Vegas 11
- looking buying Boris FX BCC

What could be done to improve processing speed? A graphics card with >1 GB memory? More memory?

Any suggestions?

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Getting OT here, but "smell of a oily rag"? Must be a New Zealand colloquialism. Anyone care to translate to American English?

D

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Sure... :-)

'On the smell of an oily rag' means: to do something at virtually no cost, or for as little cost as possible, or to be extremely economical...

It is a term used in NZ and Aus...

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Many thanks.

D

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

OK...I have Vegas 11, Boris Red, and Adobe CS6...with my Illustrator files from CS2 now in CS6 and ready incorporate onto my Vegas timeline and manipulate.

I have watched the tutorial at Extruded Spline and Extruded EPS in Sony Vegas Pro : Boris FX Tutorial where John Rofrano brings Illustrator files .ai directly into Vegas via BCC.

I have Boris Red which does not (as far as I can see) incorporate the various BCC features in the Vegas FX lists, rather you get at them through the Boris Red UI (User Interface) which opens through Vegas, so unfortunately I can't duplicate what he is doing.

I have not been able to get ai files to open as he did. All I get, as I did before when I tried importing ai files produced in CS2, are some black shapes that are on a couple of my Illustrator layers...(not shapes from all the layers, only two)...and no colours, etc.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong. It would be great if I could import the ai graphics...in their layers... straight into Vegas as John does with the ability to manipulate them any way I want.

I can't find a tutorial that does the same thing for Boris Red within a host program as he does with BCC.

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Renton, I can't fully respond and I'm not sitting at my editing computer, but here goes...

1. I'm not sure how BCC7 treats many layers in an AI file (I used RED once, so I can't comment on your travails with that.) Try creating a single layer containing a single path in AI, you can save in CS6 and EPS formats for kicks, then import into the BCC extruded EPS plugin. Does THAT work? If so, you (or BCC7) may have issues with multi-layers. In that case, you might get away with creating a compound path in AI to reduce the number and get more of your splines onto one layer.

2. You mention having CS6. Just AI? More? If you have After Effects, you can work directly with multi-layered AI files in AE. You can even manipulate each layer separately if you set up the AI file right. I know, learning AE is probably not what you have in mind, but it is a 100% guaranteed solution to what you want. I just finished a project doing exactly this, and I can tell you it worked wonderfully.

Post back with results...

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Thanks Steven

I don't have AE so that route is out.

I have discovered, and had confirmed, that to bring vector art into Boris Red you have to save as Illustrator version 8 (1998!!!)

Quote from BorisFX:
'Yes, you should save .ai or eps files as Illustrator V8 files in order to import the vector art into Boris RED.
Text will need to be converted to paths before importing.'

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

So, problem solved, all layers intact, vector art look sharp in Red/Vegas? My 3D animation application also must use v8 out of AI; sometimes I forget that and can't figure out why I can't import splines.

It occurred to me that you'll probably have to extrude the splines a little in order to see them. Once you do that, maybe you'll enjoy rotating them a bit in 3D (and extruding them further) to give a pleasing effect, perhaps with a light or two, not the "floating postcard" effect of 2D graphics being stuck somewhere in space.

Cheers,
Steve

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Not sure if I'm out of the woods yet...will play around tonight and see what the outcome is and let you know...Thanks

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

I've been stalled on my project, not really knowing how to deal with the problem of bringing my Illustrator graphic into Vegas, but decided yesterday that I will make individual png files of each of the 80 layers of my Illustrator graphic, and bring them into Vegas and manipulate them individually with Pan and Crop. (It's not clear to me about bringing Vector images in to work with...though I suspect that would be superior.)

However...one thing I feel like I need to confirm before I start this process is the resolution to export them as. It has been suggested that 150 ppi is fine...but so is 300 ppi.

When exporting, Illustrator 6 gives 300 as 'high', 150 as 'medium', and 75 as 'screen'. There are no options above 300 except 'other', which I presume would allow higher resolutions.

Under 'Anti-aliasing' (something I've never got a grip of) it gives me the options of 'None', 'Art Optimised (Supersampling), and Type Optimised (Hinted). I don't understand this.

I'm aiming my finished product at being used on TV's and through projectors, and want my graphic to be crisp. Has any one done something like this and viewed the finished product on big screens...which are increasingly the norm? If so what are your thoughts on how the graphic looked? It seems to me the higher resolution the better..within reason, as I'm going to be enlarging the first appearance of each part of the graphic, before down sizing it to fit in its place in the total picture.

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

PPI means nothing in video. All that matters is the number of pixels wide by the number of pixels high. If it is at least as big as the video frame, all is fine. So, yes, 150ppi will be fine. 75 probably would be as well. And 300 could work fine but would be over-kill.

Re: Illustrator files into Vegas
 

Just a quick check, Renton, since I've lost track of your stable of software: did you ever purchase After Effects? I ask because it's a shame (and incredibly laborious) to have to export 80 images for further manipulation, when you could drop a single 80-layer AI file in After Effects and be off to the races lickety-split.

As for anti-aliasing, you might want to experiment with the export options from AI, especially since you're going to resize the PNG's within Vegas. For instance, choosing no anti-aliasing might result in an acceptable original PNG image that then reveals odd edges when reduced in size. (Another hassle that could be avoided by using vector art within AE...)

-Steve