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Old August 5th, 2004, 11:27 PM   #1021
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The data is put on a firewire 800 interface. The firewire port on the device can be plugged either to:
A: A PC/Mac for direct streaming to the internal hard drive
B: Any standard Firewire 800 hard disk directly.

Although it doesn't matter how good the stream of data is, i think putting it on SVHS is probably worse than using the DV output.

Juan
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Old August 5th, 2004, 11:40 PM   #1022
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Prototype

Here's what the prototype looks like right now.

I've been able to map every function so far to the LCD interface, so there has been little need for any other buttons. The firewire interface is on the back.

I've already found things that will be changed for the production version, such as the size of the box might be slightly shorter.

http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~pertierr/proto1.jpg
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Old August 6th, 2004, 12:29 AM   #1023
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I'm a little fuzzy on the interface too.
So it plugs into the computer, OK.
How does it gain access to the drives?
I assume you are writing a PC-Mac application to send the data to the drive. You obviously have to tell it what drive to write to, at a minimum!

Yes?

-Les

<<<-- Originally posted by Juan P. Pertierra : The data is put on a firewire 800 interface. The firewire port on the device can be plugged either to:
A: A PC/Mac for direct streaming to the internal hard drive
B: Any standard Firewire 800 hard disk directly.

Although it doesn't matter how good the stream of data is, i think putting it on SVHS is probably worse than using the DV output.

Juan -->>>
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Old August 6th, 2004, 01:20 AM   #1024
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That's right Les. It works exactly like when you do DV capture directly to your hard drive, the only difference is that you will be using my program. You tell it where to put the files.

When hooked up to a drive, the device acts as a PC, and writes files directly onto the drive whenever the device is recording.

Juan
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Old August 6th, 2004, 02:41 AM   #1025
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"The firewire port on the device can be plugged either to... Any standard Firewire 800 hard disk directly"

oh my god, i love you.
flat out-- best, most inexpensive, most convenient solution possible.

and if you're still looking for a name, how about "RawBox". if you want it, then i relinquish all rights to you. in exchange, feel free to give me a friendly discount (insert smiley emoticon).

were you ever able to find a way to take care of those "dead" pixels? (sorry if i missed a post that answers this)

do you plan to sell them as a mod (send you a camera), or as new cameras (you order, mod, and sell them complete and ready)?

thanks, dude.
 
Old August 6th, 2004, 02:54 AM   #1026
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The 'dead pixels' were noise inserted in my experimental setup. In the actual prototype there is no noise because the wire lenghts are extremely short, and the device pulls a tiny amount of current from the camera. The capture card I used in the experimental setup pulls a larger current so the long wires not only caused noise in the RAW feed, but the same speckles were visible in the DV output because of the current drain.

The prototype literally acts like a extremely high impedance probe, such that the camera doesn't even know it is there.

Currently I am only planning to 'modify' cameras owned by other people. It is possible that I might end up selling complete systems as well, but I don't know for sure as of this moment.

Hope this answers it!
Juan
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Old August 6th, 2004, 05:49 AM   #1027
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Juan,
I was looking at the same thing someone else here was looking at.
http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlineca...productID=2490

This seems to be intresting. If it can deliver any kind of color fidelity at that resoltution and the output be all digital then thats something intresting ;) Combine with a lens that is.

Bob
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Old August 6th, 2004, 10:19 AM   #1028
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hey Juan, a few more questions-- though if they'll be answered in a few days on your website then feel free to ignore them.

is the box permanently attached to the bottom of the camera (i know you mentioned that the line has to be very short)? like can it be disconnected and left at home if raw capture isn't needed?

dare i ask what the ballpark cost is going to be and your forseeable production threshold (ie. how many a month do you plan to do)?

are the files from the 12-bit or 10-bit step in the camera?

also, are you familiar with the whole linear(HDR) vs. sRGB issue? i won't even bother getting into that, but i bring it up because some guys just released semi-shareware aftereffects plugins called eLin that allows for sRGB-to-linear (and back) conversion. if anyone's familiar with the HDR/sRGB thing, then like me you'll see these plugins as a pretty big deal. and though those plugins weren't intended for something like this, they may be very useful for the raw files, since they have an unnatural "put 10/12-bit into a 16-bit file" white point (some of the eLin plugins are for handling 10-bit cineon files). also, based on what i've seen from your stills and what you've mentioned about white balance and latitude, the raw files are likely to be linear (though not true HDR) images. i've yet to try it, or even do more than skim the eLin documentation, but i plan to do some tests with your older stills in a few weeks when i have time. the download is at

http://redgiantsoftware.com/elin.html

and some very useful info on HDR vs. sRGB is at

http://www.cinenet.net/~spitzak/conversion/index.html

warning: this stuff may put some people to sleep. and the eLin documentation i skimmed makes this seem like THE most technical-oriented aftereffects plugins i've ever seen. if you can post some recent stills of both raw and simultameous dv, then i'll be happy to try and see if eLin will be especially useful for your mod.

thanks again.
 
Old August 6th, 2004, 04:06 PM   #1029
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1. The top lid of the box has a tripod mount, along with rubber bumpers just like your tripod. The top lid is first mounted on the bottom of the camera, and the probe cables fall through an opening in the lid. The rest of the box is the attached to the lid using some screws. So yes, it is completely removable although it takes a bit of care not to force the probe cables.

2.When I have the exact figure i will post it here...

3.The data is obtained from the most pristine digital stage, which is right after the data is very first sampled from the CCD's. This is 12-bit RGB data(36-bit color), and it is simply the BEST possible quality you can get out of the hardware.

I'll read on the link, however there is essentially no difference between a 12-bit sample, and the same sample padded with zeros to 16 bits. It's the same number. Kinda like adding zeros after a decimal point.

The data is linear, corresponding to the response of the CCD's. The white value should be close to correct as long as the White Balance is adjusted.

Juan
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Old August 6th, 2004, 04:09 PM   #1030
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Oh, and another interesting fact about the GAIN.

I ran some tests, and it seems the gain setting for the CCD's is set to a constant value. The Gain setting on the camera is actually done by the internal circuitry, and after the data has been captured.

So, it would be interesting to be able to control the Gain setting of the CCD's since they have a wide range of adjustment. This is hard to do without modification though...
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Old August 8th, 2004, 03:06 PM   #1031
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build his own camera or Juan's mod ?

<<<-- Originally posted by Bob Tasa : Juan,
I was looking at the same thing someone else here was looking at.
http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlineca...productID=2490

This seems to be intresting. If it can deliver any kind of color fidelity at that resoltution and the output be all digital then thats something intresting ;) Combine with a lens that is.

Bob -->>>

Hi Bob,

The ES-2093 (http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/displayproduct.cfm?productID=2498) seems better (real 24 frames/s) and more expensive.

Does one ccd is enough to get a good picture quality ? If, it was, I could really be interested to build my own camera.
Otherwise, I will be one the Juan's customer for his incredible mod.

flax
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Old August 9th, 2004, 10:01 AM   #1032
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What is the pixel dimensions using the mod? I remember it being posted in the thread but looking through 69 pages for it is rather daunting. And would the pixel yield be the same if the mod is performed on a PAL DVX or would it be higher? Thanx.
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Old August 9th, 2004, 02:51 PM   #1033
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The resolution is 773x494. The PAL DVX will yield more lines. I am unsure of whether it will yield more horizontal resolution or not.

Juan
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Old August 15th, 2004, 11:11 AM   #1034
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Modding GL2?

Can this mod be done with a GL2? Or an XL2?

When will the site be ready?
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Old August 15th, 2004, 12:34 PM   #1035
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Ron: the mod could be done with any camera basically. The
question is: will it be made for other camera's.

Personally I would wait to see the project on the DVX finished
and others have their DVX's modified, tested and reported back
before thinking about adapting another camera.

This stuff isn't simple.
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