4:4:4 12-bit Uncompressed DVX100

Jacques Mersereau · April 23rd, 2005, 08:07 PM

I believe the LaCie big disk has USB2 and holds about 500gig.
Would that have enough bandwidth for capture Juan?

I found a really cool product made by Jadoo at Vegas.
A fuel cell generator that will produce up to 60 watts of
12v for 2 hours using hydrogen.
What we might need is for one to produce A/C to drive laptops and
hard drives.

The Jadoo system with two gas cartridges, charger and fuel cell
generator was on sale for $2400.
It has Anton Bauer gold series mount. Pretty light weight,
silent and produced no water I could see.
They make a larger cartridge that is expensive, but will last for 10 hours.

Juan P. Pertierra · April 23rd, 2005, 08:23 PM

I haven't tested the newer lacie drives, but I have an older d2(?) which was the first one to come with firewire800. It works great over FW800 but the USB2.0 is slow.

This is not because of the USB protocol, but limitations on the chipset used on either the host or the slave...in this case it is the slave because the mac host can go pretty darn fast. It is very possible that the newer lacie drives use a newer faster USB chipset and can meet the specs just fine.

My tool of choice for testing a hardrive is called 'iozone', which you can download for free at www.iozone.org. It is a command-line tool and there is a version on the internet for MacOSX somewhere, if you google iozone and MacOSX.

You can customize the tests, and target a specific drive, plus specific operations, such as just write()/fwrite()/pwrite() which is what is relevant for Andromeda. It takes a while to run, but it gives you the actual continuous write rate for the drive.

Juan

Brad Abrahams · April 23rd, 2005, 08:28 PM

A compact HDD enclosure that includes a rechargeable lithium-ion battery with 10+ hours of usage per charge:

http://www.macpower.com/productdetai...&catid=311,316

I feel something like this would be perfect in tandem with the Andromeda. It is much smaller than a laptop, lasts for longer between charges, and HDDs could be swapped out of the enclosure easily. Would this be a possible solution Juan?

Juan P. Pertierra · April 23rd, 2005, 08:32 PM

Assuming the drive is fast enough, this would require a USB/Firewire HOST inside the DVX, which is a lot more expensive, and it would require a battery itself. In addition, it would be larger such that Andromeda would need to be outside the camera, thus limiting the addition of some accessories.

Juan

Carl Merritt · April 23rd, 2005, 08:45 PM

Has anyone experience with long runs of cable for USB2.0?
Would using "repeaters" be feasible?

Juan P. Pertierra · April 23rd, 2005, 10:18 PM

We've tested it with a 15 feet cable, no problems. USB cables can be longer than this, i don't remember the exact figure now.

Hubs will act as repeaters, the only problem is that some hubs slow down the signal a bit, so it might cause a problem with larger data rates.

Juan

Carl Merritt · April 26th, 2005, 08:00 AM

Sorry if I missed it, but is there a mailing list one can join to find out when new images or information is posted to reel-stream.com?

Juan P. Pertierra · April 26th, 2005, 05:40 PM

Yes, if you go to www.reel-stream.com, select CORPORATE->CONTACT, or just click here:

http://www.reel-stream.com/corp_cont

We have posted some frames from footage we took at vegas, together with the corresponding DV frames which where recorded simultaneously on the same camera to the DV tape. So literally we have posted the exact same frames, from the same camera at the same moment in time, just recorded via two different mediums.

Because we were recording with Andromeda, we exposed for the uncompressed footage which has 2-3 stops over the DV footage. This is why the DV frames look overexposed.

Here is a link to the gallery:
http://www.reel-stream.com/cap_hd

Cheers,
Juan

Michael Maier · April 27th, 2005, 06:03 AM

That's really interesting Juan. Any plans on making Andromeda for any interchangeable lens cameras like the XL2 or maybe even the HD100 when it comes out?

Juan P. Pertierra · April 27th, 2005, 12:01 PM

If there is enough support for the current version of the device(which at the moment it seems so), we will definitely be adapting the concept to another camera, either the XL2 or one of the new HD cameras. We haven't decided which one, but i'm leaning way away from the Sony FX1 because it is interlaced.

We already posted some HD stills from footage shot in vegas on our website www.reel-stream.com.

We've been debating how to post video, just because uncompressed HD is so large, some people suggested compressing it but i'd rather not. So we will be posting a ~5 second clip in uncompressed 1540x990 frames together with what the DV tape recorded. Should be done today or tomorrow.

Juan

Kyle Edwards · April 27th, 2005, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juan P. Pertierra

We haven't decided which one, but i'm leaning way away from the Sony FX1 because it is interlaced.

Oooh, sorry to hear that. Can you explain a bit as to why? Alot more difficult to work with?

Juan P. Pertierra · April 27th, 2005, 06:06 PM

Not really. And I like the way the camera controls and everything is setup, very cool. But the sensors are interlaced, and there is just no way to get around it. There are very few people (if any) that have contacted me looking for uncompressed interlaced video. Everyone wants progressive.

In order to get something close to progressive out of the Sony, we'd have to de-interlace and that looses a ton of resolution together with a whole host of other problems.

It just doesn't make sense, when there are several other cameras that have HD chips and have progressive scan.

Cheers,
Juan

Valeriu Campan · April 27th, 2005, 06:51 PM

Wouldn't you better start from a camera that has real 720p instead of 1080i? 720p would give better images than the recompiled 1080i.

Juan P. Pertierra · April 27th, 2005, 07:15 PM

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. De-interlaced 1080i will probably yield less than 720 lines. Not to mention that the actual images are taken at completely different moments in time than a camera recording 24fps.

Juan

Kyle Edwards · April 27th, 2005, 10:30 PM

I understand your reasoning. Why work with 1440x540 when you can have the full resolution with other cameras.

April 23rd, 2005, 08:07 PM	#1261
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	I believe the LaCie big disk has USB2 and holds about 500gig. Would that have enough bandwidth for capture Juan? I found a really cool product made by Jadoo at Vegas. A fuel cell generator that will produce up to 60 watts of 12v for 2 hours using hydrogen. What we might need is for one to produce A/C to drive laptops and hard drives. The Jadoo system with two gas cartridges, charger and fuel cell generator was on sale for $2400. It has Anton Bauer gold series mount. Pretty light weight, silent and produced no water I could see. They make a larger cartridge that is expensive, but will last for 10 hours. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

April 23rd, 2005, 08:23 PM	#1262
Juan P. Pertierra Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 479	I haven't tested the newer lacie drives, but I have an older d2(?) which was the first one to come with firewire800. It works great over FW800 but the USB2.0 is slow. This is not because of the USB protocol, but limitations on the chipset used on either the host or the slave...in this case it is the slave because the mac host can go pretty darn fast. It is very possible that the newer lacie drives use a newer faster USB chipset and can meet the specs just fine. My tool of choice for testing a hardrive is called 'iozone', which you can download for free at www.iozone.org. It is a command-line tool and there is a version on the internet for MacOSX somewhere, if you google iozone and MacOSX. You can customize the tests, and target a specific drive, plus specific operations, such as just write()/fwrite()/pwrite() which is what is relevant for Andromeda. It takes a while to run, but it gives you the actual continuous write rate for the drive. Juan

April 23rd, 2005, 08:28 PM	#1263
Brad Abrahams Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 65	A compact HDD enclosure that includes a rechargeable lithium-ion battery with 10+ hours of usage per charge: http://www.macpower.com/productdetai...&catid=311,316 I feel something like this would be perfect in tandem with the Andromeda. It is much smaller than a laptop, lasts for longer between charges, and HDDs could be swapped out of the enclosure easily. Would this be a possible solution Juan?

April 23rd, 2005, 08:32 PM	#1264
Juan P. Pertierra Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 479	Assuming the drive is fast enough, this would require a USB/Firewire HOST inside the DVX, which is a lot more expensive, and it would require a battery itself. In addition, it would be larger such that Andromeda would need to be outside the camera, thus limiting the addition of some accessories. Juan

April 23rd, 2005, 08:45 PM	#1265
Carl Merritt Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 60	Has anyone experience with long runs of cable for USB2.0? Would using "repeaters" be feasible?

April 23rd, 2005, 10:18 PM	#1266
Juan P. Pertierra Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 479	We've tested it with a 15 feet cable, no problems. USB cables can be longer than this, i don't remember the exact figure now. Hubs will act as repeaters, the only problem is that some hubs slow down the signal a bit, so it might cause a problem with larger data rates. Juan

April 26th, 2005, 08:00 AM	#1267
Carl Merritt Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 60	Sorry if I missed it, but is there a mailing list one can join to find out when new images or information is posted to reel-stream.com?

April 26th, 2005, 05:40 PM	#1268
Juan P. Pertierra Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 479	Yes, if you go to www.reel-stream.com, select CORPORATE->CONTACT, or just click here: http://www.reel-stream.com/corp_cont We have posted some frames from footage we took at vegas, together with the corresponding DV frames which where recorded simultaneously on the same camera to the DV tape. So literally we have posted the exact same frames, from the same camera at the same moment in time, just recorded via two different mediums. Because we were recording with Andromeda, we exposed for the uncompressed footage which has 2-3 stops over the DV footage. This is why the DV frames look overexposed. Here is a link to the gallery: http://www.reel-stream.com/cap_hd Cheers, Juan

April 27th, 2005, 06:03 AM	#1269
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	That's really interesting Juan. Any plans on making Andromeda for any interchangeable lens cameras like the XL2 or maybe even the HD100 when it comes out?

April 27th, 2005, 12:01 PM	#1270
Juan P. Pertierra Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 479	If there is enough support for the current version of the device(which at the moment it seems so), we will definitely be adapting the concept to another camera, either the XL2 or one of the new HD cameras. We haven't decided which one, but i'm leaning way away from the Sony FX1 because it is interlaced. We already posted some HD stills from footage shot in vegas on our website www.reel-stream.com. We've been debating how to post video, just because uncompressed HD is so large, some people suggested compressing it but i'd rather not. So we will be posting a ~5 second clip in uncompressed 1540x990 frames together with what the DV tape recorded. Should be done today or tomorrow. Juan

April 27th, 2005, 06:06 PM	#1272
Juan P. Pertierra Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 479	Not really. And I like the way the camera controls and everything is setup, very cool. But the sensors are interlaced, and there is just no way to get around it. There are very few people (if any) that have contacted me looking for uncompressed interlaced video. Everyone wants progressive. In order to get something close to progressive out of the Sony, we'd have to de-interlace and that looses a ton of resolution together with a whole host of other problems. It just doesn't make sense, when there are several other cameras that have HD chips and have progressive scan. Cheers, Juan

April 27th, 2005, 06:51 PM	#1273
Valeriu Campan Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 223	Wouldn't you better start from a camera that has real 720p instead of 1080i? 720p would give better images than the recompiled 1080i.

April 27th, 2005, 07:15 PM	#1274
Juan P. Pertierra Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 479	Yes, that's exactly what I mean. De-interlaced 1080i will probably yield less than 720 lines. Not to mention that the actual images are taken at completely different moments in time than a camera recording 24fps. Juan

April 27th, 2005, 10:30 PM	#1275
Kyle Edwards Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LI, NY Posts: 274	I understand your reasoning. Why work with 1440x540 when you can have the full resolution with other cameras.