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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old March 8th, 2008, 11:21 AM   #1
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Color matching XH-A1 and HV20

I have been shooting using both Canon XH-A1 and HV20. It takes a while for me to learn to match the color tone from footage of these 2 cameras.

I am using the Matrox RTX2 card that has such feature to match color from two clips by referencing the shadow/highlight/midtone area of two clips. It works very well. I also printed a Black/White/Grey card using photoshop. Then I will shoot a few seconds of that card in the location by both cameras. In post, I can just match them easiliy. I heard there is a a similar feature in Premiere but I didn't bother to find out.

Recently, I tried using XH-A1 custom preset #13 "OUTSIDEN" in XH-A1 that can closely match with HV20 setting color -1, brightness +1, contrast -1. It's not a 100% match but is pretty close.

If you guys have any experience in matching the color of HV20 and XH-A1, please share.
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Color matching XH-A1 and HV20-preset13-a1.jpg   Color matching XH-A1 and HV20-preset13-hv20.jpg  

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Old March 9th, 2008, 12:04 AM   #2
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I'm curious if anyone has anything to share. Just bought an HV30, and already own an XH-A1. Won't have to combine the two for a couple of weeks.

Taky, I'll let you know if I figure anything out when I do.
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Old March 10th, 2008, 06:52 PM   #3
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The Hv30's cinelook is supposed to match default preset #8 on the A1
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Old March 10th, 2008, 06:58 PM   #4
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I just tried it on HV20 cinemood compared to A1 preset #8. They aren't quite match. Is HV30 has a new cine mode that will match better?
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Old March 10th, 2008, 11:00 PM   #5
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I want to start testing this too, I am in same boat as you guys but I have so little time for playing
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Old March 10th, 2008, 11:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taky Cheung View Post
I heard there is a a similar feature in Premiere but I didn't bother to find out.

I'm interested in this also - I had a look at Premiere and found:

The Color Match effect can transfer color information from one image or clip to another. For example, use Color Match if you want to use the color-corrected color information in one clip as the basis for correcting the color of another clip. Or, if you have an image containing an area that you consider ideal and you would like to transfer color information from it to another image. This effect works best when you work between two images with slightly different exposures, such as those shot in identical locations, but on different days, or in slightly different lighting conditions.
If you need more control than the Color Match effect offers, use the Secondary Color Correction controls in the RGB Corrector, RGB Curves, and Three-Way Color Corrector. These controls let you adjust a single color or a range of colors.
Select the clip you want to adjust is in the Timeline panel so it displays in the Program Monitor.
If you want to match the information in the displayed clip to another clip in your project, open that other clip in the Source Monitor.
Apply the Color Match effect to the clip you want to adjust.
In the Effect Controls panel, click the triangle to expand the Color Match effect.
---------------

there's more info on the help file.

I wonder about using the grey card - isn't that only assuring a match on those shades? Just because you match on grey or red or blue, does that mean that all other colours are going to match as well?
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Old March 12th, 2008, 08:08 PM   #7
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That's what a review on the hv30 says:

"The camcorder also offers a "Cine" mode that shifts the gamma curve to emulate a pro camcorder. To be specific, the Cine mode on the HV30 matches the Canon XL A1's Cine V mode (Custom Preset #8)."

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...erformance.htm

Of course they typed the name of the A1 wrong, but whatever. I'm gonna test that in the next few days myself and I'll post about it.
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Old March 12th, 2008, 08:15 PM   #8
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Maybe it means XL-H1 not XH-A1. I just tried HV20 Cine mode + XH-A1 preset #8. Not a match :( Still custom preset #13 download form here is the cloest.
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Old March 13th, 2008, 12:58 PM   #9
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I use Grass Valley Edius 4.6 and I checked this out on their Forum. Here is one of the replies:
"I run both XHA1 and HV20 and there is little difference between them IF you run them both with the Selectable "Daylight" setting not AUTO White balance where you will find considerable difference.
Providing this is adhered to you should not have any problems.
Regarding the color match there is a good tutorial on the Edius site on this, works a treat. Look here http://ediustraining.grassvalley.com/ "
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Old May 26th, 2008, 03:44 AM   #10
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HV-30 cine and XH-A1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taky Cheung View Post
Maybe it means XL-H1 not XH-A1. I just tried HV20 Cine mode + XH-A1 preset #8. Not a match :( Still custom preset #13 download form here is the cloest.
Reviving this because I'm doing a shoot soon with 2 HV-30s on cine and an XH-A1.

Lighting will be:
1. Daylight outside (early summer evening )
2. Mixed daylight/recessed halogens (soon after above)
3. Recessed halogens with PAGlight C6 if required
4. Disco lighting (I know - write THAT one off)

I want the first 3 to match the HV 30 cine mode as well as possible on the A1 without lots of tweaking in post. I was intending to use a white or 18% grey card to white balance each.

Taky, I can't remember, do you have a '30 as well as a '20? Or do they behave exactly the same?

I want to know which A1 preset will work best for this.
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Old May 26th, 2008, 12:32 PM   #11
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Personally I don't like Cine Mode. The low contrast makes the image very "flat" and the color output is all weird.

During day light, I found the footage can be matched easily. Only in indoor lighting, the matching between two will be tricky.

I have two HV30s and one XH-A1. I shoot with 30F VividRGB in XH-A1. 30P in HV30 setting Contrast -1, Color Depth +1. Then match the HV30 with color correction in post.

If you do not want to do anything in post, I tried the Preset #13 match close enough to HV30's output (not using Cine mode) as I described in the first post of this thread.
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Old May 27th, 2008, 08:02 AM   #12
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Hi, I just matched my HV30 (using a colour chart and skin tones) to the XH-A1 and these are the settings that look most comparable to me (with all the 'image effects' on the HV30 off) :
GAM-N
KNE-M
BLK-P
PED -9
SET -9
SHP 2
HDF-M
HDV 0
COR 0
NR1 0
NR2 0
CMX N
CGN 0
CPH 0
RGN -21
GGN 1
BGN 7
RGM 13
RBM 12
GRM 4
GBM 4
BRM 11
BGM 8
For what it's worth.
Luc

PS, wrong thread in fact, because this is about HV20 - I repeated it in new thread for HV30. Can you remove this one, Chris? Thanks.

Last edited by Luc De Wandel; May 27th, 2008 at 08:34 AM.
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Old May 27th, 2008, 12:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc De Wandel View Post
Hi, I just matched my HV30...

PS, wrong thread in fact, because this is about HV20 - I repeated it in new thread for HV30. Can you remove this one, Chris? Thanks.
Luc, if your post is in the wrong thread, so is mine.
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Old May 27th, 2008, 03:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin McDonald View Post
Luc, if your post is in the wrong thread, so is mine.
No problem, I answered your question in the other thread.
Regards
Luc
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Old May 27th, 2008, 10:33 PM   #15
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Taky

I found a simple way to get a good match in editing which is the panalook2 on the A1 and using Cinemode and all the extra settings on the HV20 at 0. This required slight colour correction but it was very easy to match. I am sure if you customised the A1 more you could get almost exact.

I know you said you dont like the cinelook but you'll find it gives you more shadow detail which in the other settings you can loose and if you do like to grade your footage you can play with more.
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