CineForm and Premiere Pro CS3 / After Effects

[David Newman]

We don't change the SD features. I can't see how that would happen.

[Mike McCarthy]

I have had something similar happen on my system as well. I haven't confirmed that is was caused by Cineform, but that is where most of the evidence is pointing. I have a number of other Cineform issues on that one system. AE gives me multiple CF import popups, and errors everytime it loses focus, renders never acknowledge completion, (sitting at 100% even though I can use the file) FLV exports fail, etc. I am planning to reimage the system this week, and will check the issue with a reinstall of the same software. (CS3 and Prospect)

[David Newman]

Mike & Carlos, delete the AJACaptureFilter.ax from C:\Program Files\CineForm\Prospect??. That AJA component is causing many people issues, it not supposed to be registered, yet it is on many PCs.

[Carlos Bustamante]

Right on, David. That solved the problem. Thanks.

[Kujtim Ereqi]

Thanks...

I'm looking forward to any new information you'll share in the future

[Kujtim Ereqi]

BTW...

Mike, your site has been very useful for me. Keep going with good work..

Thanks again

[Stephen Armour]

Maybe this is a better question for the Premiere section, but since I'm here, and David knows things like this, I'll ask:

Does anyone know what the "individual frame" thumbnails in PP3 in the "timeline window" actually represent? When you are totally zoomed in, do they have actually have anything to do with the GOP's or anything relevant? Does the "frame" preview thumbnail actually start at the beginning of a GOP maybe?

Come on guru's, let's hear some collective wisdom on this!

[David Newman]

The thumbnails in Premiere are the actual frame, not the begining of the GOP.

[Stephen Armour]

Originally Posted by David Newman

The thumbnails in Premiere are the actual frame, not the begining of the GOP.

That used to be true in older versions of Premiere, but it isn't any more. The PP CS3 version no longer represents each frame with a thumbnail. Zoom into a timeline and you'll see what I mean.

So what exactly DOES it represent? At it's largest timeline size, it's 31 frames wide, at the smallest is 2 frames. Not only that, the thumbnail edges don't even line up with the frame marks, even at 2 frames!

Seems to be an arbitrary way of zooming the thumbnails, with no real usefulness other than a general view of where you're at. Too bad. I liked it MUCH better in years past...

[Declan Harrington]

Tried these workarounds myself and have had no luck. Always have to re-render everytime I open my current project. Anyone got any more info on this?

[Frederic Leclair]

HERE'S INCLUDED MY WHOLE TICKET (SO FAR) WITH CINEFORM:

Ticket Description
Problem Type: Crash or Bug
OS: XP Professional
CPU: AMD Athlon 64
CPU Speed: 2.5GHz - 3GHz
CPU Configuration: Single Dual-Core
Main Memory: DDR2 SDRAM
Memory Amount: >=4GB
Video Drive: Multiple video drives in RAID configuration
System Usage: General Usage also (Email, Internet, Office, etc.)
Camera/Deck Model #: Sony HVR-Z1
Motherboard Manufacturer: ASUS
Motherboard Model #: SLI-DELUXE
Graphics Card Model #: MATROX APVe
Product Name: AspectHD
Version #: v5.2 (last build 106)
Serial Number: AHD50-3C9338EAF1
NLE Version: Premiere Pro CS3
Description of Problem: I'm currently having a bug on a projet that I'm trying to edit.

My timeline won't play when I hit SPACEBAR or ENTER. Or if it plays, it will only do so for few seconds before freezing image and maybe continue playing audio track. Sometimes it will play audio very well, but you'll only see a black screen in the video preview.

The project file is very light (5,3KB below the suggested maximum project size of 32KB by David Newman). My whole computer is maximised for memory optimisation as best as it could be (/3GB + /PAE switch enabled and the whole shebang...)

Precise Steps to Reproduce:
I actually don't even get an error message like (serious error OR low system memory). I always monitor my memory usage with Windows Task Manager and it rarely go above 1,000,000 K for VM Size and plays between 200,000 K and 300,000 K for Mem Usage. (I've seen my PP3 go in other projects to around 2GB of either Mem Usage and VM Size...so that's not the bug...)

My specs are:
Windows XP Pro all updated
Cineform AspectHD v5.1 last patch updated
AMD64 Athlon x2 4600+
4 GB of RAM 733mghz in dual channel
MATROX APVe
Sound Blaster X-FI

PP3 is set to make render optimized for memory.
I run it dual monitors with Ultramon 2.6.23.0

The main timeline is very light with as low as 2 video tracks with no fancy effects with around 7-8 audio tracks, with currently a trailer edit of 40 seconds. There is about 15-20 others timeline in the project of about 15 minutes each to list my footage so I can pick from them to edit.

Overall a normal project, but one that doesn't allow me playback...

2/12/2008 7:24 AM PDT Provided Info Frederic Leclair IN ADDITION TO LAST POST:

I've noticed that when I freshly booted my computer and just openned my PP3, I'm able to playback some clips. Until 2-3 playback, when it's starts to bug. If I close my PP3 when its strats to freezes and reload it doesn't work, I'll need to reboot computer to see a change...

But, the bug doesn't apply to everything;

- some clips I can't play in preview window and/or timeline
(usually longer clips)
- other (usually smaller lenght clips) can playback
- sound only usually playback well, but I sometimes get an audio gap
for a couple of frames just after hiting play button, then all goes well
- I've rendered a selection which played well before getting rendered,
and now it doesn't play, it shows an X once rendered (shouldn't it
have done the reverse ??? not play/render/then play)


2/1/2008 11:50 AM PDT Provided Info Frederic Leclair

I've swaped for Creative ASIO, but nothing is changed. I still have the spame problem regarding playback of timeline and even of preview window with single clip...

unchecking the stop watch doesn't change anything for clips that freeze while attempting to playback; regarding clip that ask for render but shouldn't I haven't encountered any since I've posted... ?!?

I've tried the stopwatch trick on clip that freeze in the timeline, but this doesn't change anything either.

The memory is quite decent, no peak whatsoever and project size is very small...

What next?

1/24/2008 4:41 PM PDT Requested Info Jake Segraves

Defenitely use Creative ASIO. That should work the best (of course you'll know which one works best considering you're the one sitting in front of your computer).

The files that say they need rendering but shouldn't: Click on one of them in the timeline then look in the Time Remapping section of the Effect Controls window. Uncheck the stopwatch that enables keyframes and that should eliminate the red bar. This is something Adobe is looking into for us and they recommend doing that as a workaround.

1/18/2008 7:19 AM PDT Provided Info Frederic Leclair

I've SHIFT-started until the project choice window; it doesn't seems to have done anything and I don't feel any difference or reset anything...

I've noticed in my Preferences menu, that in my Audio Hardware and Audio Output Mapping, I've got 3 choices I could make:
- PP window sound
- ASIO Digidesign Driver
- Creative ASIO

Could the mixer setting impact this ? I doubt it, since it's not just the sound that doesn't play, but the whole clip...

1/11/2008 12:41 PM PDT Requested Info Jake Segraves

Well the audio looks normal. This might be a longshot, but try holding down the shift key when you launch premiere. This will reset its preferences file to the defaults. Maybe that will help.
1/10/2008 6:38 AM PDT Provided Info Frederic Leclair check print screen JPEG attached
audio hardware settings.JPG

1/9/2008 12:08 PM PDT Requested Info Jake Segraves

What are the Audio Hardware preferences set to in Premiere's Prefs menu?

1/3/2008 8:19 AM PDT Provided Info Frederic Leclair

Here's the screenshot with PP3 closed.

I realy doubt that any of my running process is causing problems (it has been went over and over in previous ticket and I've trimmed them to the essential in view of memory usage).

Memory playback buffer is at max in both my Preview window and Playback window in my PP3.

screenshot.jpg

1/2/2008 3:50 PM PDT Requested Info Jake Segraves

Go to the CineForm playback settings and adjust the memory buffer. Does that help?

Also how many windows processes and services do you have running simultaneously? Can you send me a screen shot of the Task Manager open to the Processes tab?

12/27/2007 8:13 AM PDT Provided Info Frederic Leclair

I've tried copy/pasting a couple of file and they play well, but then I've checked the rest of my project (after defragmenting registry, cleaning it, scanning for spyware and error on computer, erasing previews files and so on,...) and timelines that don't have multiple layer of audio play well (they didn't used to), sometimes a clip shows red as needing render for no reason and don't play when rendered (even if it plays in WMP).

But, with that clean up, the bug only extend to my timelines which have multiple audio track well filled (like around 8-9).

Any ideas about this ?

12/27/2007 7:37 AM PDT Provided Info Frederic Leclair

Ultramon is not the problem, I've tested without and it changes nada.

I've tested my drives with HD-Tach and the connectivity/speed result seems quite normal. (resulting files attached)

I'll do the copy files test and repost later today.
Maxtor_6V160E0_VA111630 #.hdc
NVIDIA_STRIPE_465_77G_ #.hdc
NVIDIA_STRIPE_894_27G_ #.hdc

12/26/2007 11:56 AM PDT Requested Info Jake Segraves

REgarding the Ultramon app. Yes that could definitely be the cause. If it's continually running in the background monitoring the system, that would most certainly interfere with playback of your timeline.

Try disabling it to see if that helps.

When I mentioned copying your files, I just meant a few video clips. Not the whole project. I doubt that your project file is corrupt. This just sounds like something is interupting playback.

12/23/2007 8:03 AM PDT Provided Info Frederic Leclair

Could Ultramon be causing any problem for playback? Do you run something alike on your computer ?

I've noticed that, strangely, when I hit the L key, several time I manage to get my computer to play smoothly in a like 3-4x time speed with no glitch, but when I try to slow it down with the P key, it bugs and starts doing as it does playing with SPACEBAR or ENTER...

ENTER seems to have better result then SPACEBAR, undow both sucks....

12/23/2007 7:03 AM PDT Provided Info Frederic Leclair

My hard drives config is like this:

160 GB for C:
2x250 GB in RAID 0 Y:
3x320 GB in RAID 0 Z:
EXTERNAL HD of 80 GB (USB) E:

My footage is 70% to 75% on my Z and the rest on my Y, the project file with PP folders for project are on Y also.

When I first digitized my footage, I had connectivity trouble with RAID 0 configuration with the HDs brand (Western Digital) I had installed with my specific motherboard, but is has been fixed by installing Seagate's.

I keep my drive very well defragmented (below 1%) withg OoODefrag which defrags by clusters. I'm currently doing it as I write this, the fragmentation had gone up to 11% for my C and 6-7% for my Y... I'll let you know if this change anything.

About copying files and running for playback...do you mean in the same project file or into a new one? Could our project files be corrupted or something?

Let me know.

Merry Chrismass.

12/20/2007 4:50 PM PDT Requested Info Jake Segraves

I'm having a similar problem on a project I'm working on. I narrowed it down to the external usb harddrive I was using.

I see that you have a RAID configuration. How's the framentation on it? Can you check to see if it needs to be degragmented.

try copying some files to the system drive and play them back there. this could help determine if it's the raid.

[Rick Thornquist]

All -

I figured out the answer to this...

While playing around with Media Player Classic, I found an item under the menu Play / Filters / Cineform HD Decoder-2. This gave me a Properties dialog that I'd never seen before. It had a Resolution tab that gave me a choice of Full, Half or Quarter and had a button Set as Default. It was currently on Half, so I set it to Full and clicked Set as Default.

That did the trick! My video was now as sharp!

Cineform support says that you can do the same thing by clicking the Start button and going All Programs / Cineform / Tools / Desktop Playback - Quality.

I'm a little mystified as to why this dialog box is so well hidden... :)

I'm also a little mystified as to why this happened. How do programs know they are getting the full resolution of the video from Cineform? Ultra obviously couldn't tell, but Premiere and After Effects seem to know to get the full resolution even when this setting is set to half. Anyone know the answer to this?

- Rick

[David Newman]

Originally Posted by Rick Thornquist

I'm also a little mystified as to why this happened. How do programs know they are getting the full resolution of the video from Cineform? Ultra obviously couldn't tell, but Premiere and After Effects seem to know to get the full resolution even when this setting is set to half. Anyone know the answer to this?

- Rick

Premiere and AE use CineForm components to allow us to control decoding resolution independently to the desktop playback setting (which defaults to full quality.) We should make sure Ultra does the same.

[Rick Thornquist]

David -

Ah, I understand.

While you're working with the Ultra people, perhaps you could find out why the Cineform DirectShow interface doesn't work when you output from Ultra. You can select the 'Cineform HD Encoder' or 'Cineform HD Encoder-2' codecs in the Output panel, but when you hit the Save Output button it doesn't do anything.

The Video for Windows 'Cineform HD Codec V3.4.3' codec works, but I'd rather use the DirectShow encoders! :)

- Rick

[David Newman]

The DirectShow encoders are faster (more threading), yet there will not no quality difference as Ultra is strictly RGB24, the pixel format of Video for Windows. Build 155 will be posted sometime tommorrow fixes the Decoder issue with Ultra, and I have a question with Adobe regarding the DShow encoders.