CineForm and Premiere Pro CS3 / After Effects

Carl Middleton · November 30th, 2007, 11:15 AM

You could try rewrapping the files to .mov? I'm not (yet) a Mac-type, so I don't know for sure, but it might be worth a shot to see if that helps.

Carl

Mike McCarthy · November 30th, 2007, 01:08 PM

I have had to rewrap my Cineform files to MOV to get them to work on PPro CS3 on Mac. I am not sure if there is a way to get the AVIs to work.

Andrew J Hall · December 2nd, 2007, 02:33 PM

I hope one of the Cineform people might be able to answer this one.

I have recently read that Premiere does not do color management (while AE does). What does this mean in terms of what one sees on the software monitor inside Premiere (or using full-screen overlay on a special purpose monitor) when editing and using Cineform color correction filters? What color space is being used and is there anything that can be done to make that color space useful (one would assume it already is otherwise why the filters).

My editing needs are simple, mostly just slicing and joining clips and mild color correction. For that I have felt I should not need to work with AE.

Andrew

Carl Middleton · December 2nd, 2007, 03:43 PM

If I remember right, you posted asking about an external monitor for use with Premiere, using a consumer LCD?

I don't believe PPro has it's own colorspace setup, however, Cineform uses the correct colorspace for the overlay.

You can specify to use the correct colorspace for your HD footage, and whether to use RGB or YUV for the overlay.

Carl

Andrew J Hall · December 2nd, 2007, 03:47 PM

Hi Carl

Yes you're right I was asking questions about monitor options. That is encouraging what you say about overlay with Cineform, so does that mean Cineform is determining the color space in Premiere's timeline preview displays.

Andrew

Carl Middleton · December 2nd, 2007, 04:01 PM

That is my understanding, yes.

Bart Walczak · December 3rd, 2007, 03:02 AM

Thanks. I'll give it a try.

Richard Eary · December 7th, 2007, 03:07 PM

I am having trouble matching the video quality of my MPEG files to the quality of the videos creating using Cineform AVI movie in Premiere CS3. Is there a problem with the Encoder output option and Cineform? What is the solution? The I lesser quality outputing Flash, WMV, or MPEGS in Encoder. I am guessing that all output using Encoder has quality issues for Cineform presets.

I have even tried importing the AVI file that was used to create the DVD back into Premiere and still got the same results.

The quality of the AVI video which was used to create the DVD was perfect.

Any help would be great..
thank you, richard

David Newman · December 7th, 2007, 03:11 PM

Work with support, www.cineform.com/support, as your post is not clear what you doing. Questions: "Encoder" and your talking about "Adobe Media Encoder", quality are you talking compression, motion, or interlacing artifacts? CineForm presets have no impact of the quality of the various output option in Premiere, the two aren't connected.

Richard Eary · December 7th, 2007, 09:32 PM

Sorry for the confusing email.

I guess my question would be what would cause a quality difference between Premiere->Adobe Media Encoder->MPEG DVD and producing a DVD by importing an AVI that was exported using Cineform AVI. Now the MPEG DVD encoding from Adobe Media Encoder was based on the same Cineform AVI video. I notice that the video is clear and crisp on the DVD (VOB files) compared to the MPEG DVD file generated by Media Encoder. For example, the line in the "A" letter would be harder to see. What would cause the difference? Is there a way to see the bitrate settings Adobe Encoder used?

Also, what is the best workflow when producing Flash files with Cineform? Squeeze?

Carl Middleton · December 7th, 2007, 09:38 PM

I personally have found many reasons to hate Adobe Media Encoder.

The downres quality is sub-par. I use Nero to downres, and it comes out better than anything I managed in AME, and trust me, I've tried.

After Effects does a wonderful downres, with a sharpening effect applied, but it takes time. As I stated, Nero works for me. Others use VirtualDub or another free third party software. There are many threads here discussing the best ways to go from Cineform in Premiere to SD DVD. Use the search function to take a look at them. Adobe Media Encoder is, sadly, behind the curve in terms of accomplishing this, but there is free/cheap software that does an outstanding, beautiful job. Just use the Export->Movie function to export a Cineform AVI as your master copy, and produce your DVD from there. That seems the most popular workflow.

Carl

Stephen Armour · December 12th, 2007, 07:03 AM

David, are there any issues with CF (or fixes) you know of yet with the PP CS3 3.1.1 update?

Just wondering.

Jim Leonard · December 12th, 2007, 04:25 PM

I imported footage into a Cineform project with PPro CS3 3.1.1. It captured fine, I could scroll and drag the slider through the footage fine, but when I wanted to play in the source window or from the timeline at normal speed, the image became heavily distorted with lines (it looked like an old broken tube TV) I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong and if there's a certain setting.

Also...I want to take full advantage of cineform, is there a basic guide or thread that exists that shows what the best setting to use for HDV (quality, etc...). Hard drive space is not a concern, whatever the best would be.

I'm running a Core 2 Duo 2.0ghz, 4 gigs ram, winxp pro 64bit, 7200rpm drives and I shoot with a Canon xha1 often at 24F

Thanks!

Jim

Tim Bucklin · December 12th, 2007, 04:36 PM

Hi Jim,

It may be trying to use a version of our codec that is incorrectly performing the half-res decode. Try re-installing your CineForm software.

Have you opened a support ticket?
If not, and re-installation doesn't work, please do so and include a screenshot of the error you're seeing, so we can track it down further.

As for settings, "High" quality is sufficient for HDV sources. It's definitely a case of diminishing returns with Film Scan 1 and Film Scan 2 when starting with an HDV source. Your user guide should provide you with the settings info to properly handle the 24F mode of the camera when capturing in HD Link and CineForm projects in Premiere.

Stephen Armour · December 12th, 2007, 06:46 PM

Sounds like another "force YUV" prob. Did you happen to open an old project with "force YUV" turned off? That happens to us regularly, especially after bringing in an older project to use some of the elements from it.

November 30th, 2007, 01:08 PM	#92
Mike McCarthy Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern California Posts: 517	I have had to rewrap my Cineform files to MOV to get them to work on PPro CS3 on Mac. I am not sure if there is a way to get the AVIs to work. __________________ For more information on these topics, check out my tech website at www.hd4pc.com

December 2nd, 2007, 02:33 PM	#93
Andrew J Hall Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 80	Aspect / Prospect / Premiere Color Management I hope one of the Cineform people might be able to answer this one. I have recently read that Premiere does not do color management (while AE does). What does this mean in terms of what one sees on the software monitor inside Premiere (or using full-screen overlay on a special purpose monitor) when editing and using Cineform color correction filters? What color space is being used and is there anything that can be done to make that color space useful (one would assume it already is otherwise why the filters). My editing needs are simple, mostly just slicing and joining clips and mild color correction. For that I have felt I should not need to work with AE. Andrew __________________ http://www.ps-scripts.com/ Intel Core2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz, 2x 2Gb Ram, ATI Radeon HD 3850

December 2nd, 2007, 03:43 PM	#94
Carl Middleton Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fernandina Beach, FL Posts: 562	If I remember right, you posted asking about an external monitor for use with Premiere, using a consumer LCD? I don't believe PPro has it's own colorspace setup, however, Cineform uses the correct colorspace for the overlay. You can specify to use the correct colorspace for your HD footage, and whether to use RGB or YUV for the overlay. Carl __________________ Carl Middleton Whizkid Mediaworks

December 2nd, 2007, 03:47 PM	#95
Andrew J Hall Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 80	Hi Carl Yes you're right I was asking questions about monitor options. That is encouraging what you say about overlay with Cineform, so does that mean Cineform is determining the color space in Premiere's timeline preview displays. Andrew __________________ http://www.ps-scripts.com/ Intel Core2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz, 2x 2Gb Ram, ATI Radeon HD 3850

December 2nd, 2007, 04:01 PM	#96
Carl Middleton Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fernandina Beach, FL Posts: 562	That is my understanding, yes. __________________ Carl Middleton Whizkid Mediaworks

November 30th, 2007, 11:15 AM	#91
Carl Middleton Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fernandina Beach, FL Posts: 562	You could try rewrapping the files to .mov? I'm not (yet) a Mac-type, so I don't know for sure, but it might be worth a shot to see if that helps. Carl

December 3rd, 2007, 03:02 AM	#97
Bart Walczak Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Warsaw/Poland Posts: 716	Thanks. I'll give it a try.

December 7th, 2007, 03:07 PM	#98
Richard Eary Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Graham, Washington Posts: 44	Premeire CS3 Cineform MPEG quality issue in encoder I am having trouble matching the video quality of my MPEG files to the quality of the videos creating using Cineform AVI movie in Premiere CS3. Is there a problem with the Encoder output option and Cineform? What is the solution? The I lesser quality outputing Flash, WMV, or MPEGS in Encoder. I am guessing that all output using Encoder has quality issues for Cineform presets. I have even tried importing the AVI file that was used to create the DVD back into Premiere and still got the same results. The quality of the AVI video which was used to create the DVD was perfect. Any help would be great.. thank you, richard

December 7th, 2007, 03:11 PM	#99
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Work with support, www.cineform.com/support, as your post is not clear what you doing. Questions: "Encoder" and your talking about "Adobe Media Encoder", quality are you talking compression, motion, or interlacing artifacts? CineForm presets have no impact of the quality of the various output option in Premiere, the two aren't connected. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 7th, 2007, 09:32 PM	#100
Richard Eary Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Graham, Washington Posts: 44	Sorry for the confusing email. I guess my question would be what would cause a quality difference between Premiere->Adobe Media Encoder->MPEG DVD and producing a DVD by importing an AVI that was exported using Cineform AVI. Now the MPEG DVD encoding from Adobe Media Encoder was based on the same Cineform AVI video. I notice that the video is clear and crisp on the DVD (VOB files) compared to the MPEG DVD file generated by Media Encoder. For example, the line in the "A" letter would be harder to see. What would cause the difference? Is there a way to see the bitrate settings Adobe Encoder used? Also, what is the best workflow when producing Flash files with Cineform? Squeeze?

December 7th, 2007, 09:38 PM	#101
Carl Middleton Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fernandina Beach, FL Posts: 562	I personally have found many reasons to hate Adobe Media Encoder. The downres quality is sub-par. I use Nero to downres, and it comes out better than anything I managed in AME, and trust me, I've tried. After Effects does a wonderful downres, with a sharpening effect applied, but it takes time. As I stated, Nero works for me. Others use VirtualDub or another free third party software. There are many threads here discussing the best ways to go from Cineform in Premiere to SD DVD. Use the search function to take a look at them. Adobe Media Encoder is, sadly, behind the curve in terms of accomplishing this, but there is free/cheap software that does an outstanding, beautiful job. Just use the Export->Movie function to export a Cineform AVI as your master copy, and produce your DVD from there. That seems the most popular workflow. Carl __________________ Carl Middleton Whizkid Mediaworks

December 12th, 2007, 07:03 AM	#102
Stephen Armour Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Natal, RN, Brasil Posts: 900	Any CF issues with the PP CS3 3.1.1 update? David, are there any issues with CF (or fixes) you know of yet with the PP CS3 3.1.1 update? Just wondering. __________________ http://lightinaction.org "All in the view of the LION"

December 12th, 2007, 04:25 PM	#103
Jim Leonard New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 6	Heavy Distortion on Preview in PPro CS3 I imported footage into a Cineform project with PPro CS3 3.1.1. It captured fine, I could scroll and drag the slider through the footage fine, but when I wanted to play in the source window or from the timeline at normal speed, the image became heavily distorted with lines (it looked like an old broken tube TV) I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong and if there's a certain setting. Also...I want to take full advantage of cineform, is there a basic guide or thread that exists that shows what the best setting to use for HDV (quality, etc...). Hard drive space is not a concern, whatever the best would be. I'm running a Core 2 Duo 2.0ghz, 4 gigs ram, winxp pro 64bit, 7200rpm drives and I shoot with a Canon xha1 often at 24F Thanks! Jim

December 12th, 2007, 04:36 PM	#104
Tim Bucklin Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 112	Hi Jim, It may be trying to use a version of our codec that is incorrectly performing the half-res decode. Try re-installing your CineForm software. Have you opened a support ticket? If not, and re-installation doesn't work, please do so and include a screenshot of the error you're seeing, so we can track it down further. As for settings, "High" quality is sufficient for HDV sources. It's definitely a case of diminishing returns with Film Scan 1 and Film Scan 2 when starting with an HDV source. Your user guide should provide you with the settings info to properly handle the 24F mode of the camera when capturing in HD Link and CineForm projects in Premiere. __________________ Tim Bucklin CineForm Software Engineer

December 12th, 2007, 06:46 PM	#105
Stephen Armour Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Natal, RN, Brasil Posts: 900	Sounds like another "force YUV" prob. Did you happen to open an old project with "force YUV" turned off? That happens to us regularly, especially after bringing in an older project to use some of the elements from it. __________________ http://lightinaction.org "All in the view of the LION"