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Old February 2nd, 2014, 09:44 AM   #166
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Re: Lightworks NLE V11.5 released for Win. & Linux

My impression on the open source Lightworks is that the code would be released, but there would be a subscription for the plug ins to allow the use of commercial codecs.So, I don't think FLOSS is part of the thinking, they seem to be going for a subscription use model at the moment.

That's not to say that third party developers couldn't develop import/export for open source codecs in a free version and having the code available would allow other developers to create new features (how that's funded that I don't know, i expect there may be a charge or donation). I understand there's about a million lines of code in Lightworks, so it would need some form of oversight otherwise it could become unstable.

Open source software isn't always free, although most of it is. It seems quite a few open source projects fall apart because of personalty differences. Someone involved in open source gave a talk last year and he mentioned that a lot of planning needs to be put in place before a project even starts. On one he spent over a year doing this alone.
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 10:09 AM   #167
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Re: Lightworks NLE V11.5 released for Win. & Linux

You are right about the distinction between open source and FLOSS.
I think the problem is EditShare is allowing far too much ambiguity for far too long about it's ultimate intentions and this is what leads to bad feelings and lost trust.
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 10:18 AM   #168
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Re: Lightworks NLE V11.5 released for Win. & Linux

I think people were viewing it from their own viewpoint. I've a feeling that some see going open source means that they're no longer at the whim of any one company that can drop their favoured program like many other NLEs have been in the past, while others see it as being a community thing with free access. There is a potential for conflict between these two groups.
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 11:24 AM   #169
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Re: Lightworks NLE V11.5 released for Win. & Linux

I'm not sure I understand your last point... do you mean - and sorry for using the cliché lables - that some people were looking for 'free speech' while others were only interested in 'free beer'?
If so I'm not sure there is actually that much of a conflict. Sure, even a true FLOSS project could charge payment for compiled binaries, but it would still allow someone else to fork or compile and offer it as 'free beer'.

The concern as I understand it is that even if sources are eventually released they would not be released in a way that allows any meaningful development outside the EditShare closed-source eco-system.

In any case, there's not much point speculating. Eventually EditShare will reveal their intentions, I just hope sooner than later. I for one was more excited about the 'free speech' prospect rather than the 'free beer' bonus. EditShare never guaranteed it, but certainly implied it, hence my disappointment.
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 12:28 PM   #170
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Re: Lightworks NLE V11.5 released for Win. & Linux

So far as I'm aware Editshire haven't stopped free speech in their forum, they usually only step in when things get personal or if there is an attack that isn't backed up with reasoned argument. I don't think it's too different to this forum in that regard, although it's obviously more about discussing Lightworks, NLEs and editing in general. Quite a few people do manage to sail pretty close to the wind, but seem know how far to go.

They locked one thread on free open source, but there's still another one open. The closed one seemed to be going in circles without any new points being made. I think Editshare knew what the reaction was going to be because all arguments had already been made in the beta threads when the limited exports were announced in one of the 11.5 betas. They increased it to 720p because of the reaction from beta testers.

It's rumoured is that a few people are looking at making use of the Lightworks codes after they're released. In theory it shouldn't be impossible for a group to write an open source program to make use of the Lightworks archive (which can be exported from the 11.5 version) to render an edit.

From what I've read to date Editshare have promised that there will always be a Free version and that they'd make the code available after the Mac OS is released.

Last edited by Brian Drysdale; February 2nd, 2014 at 01:11 PM.
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 01:57 PM   #171
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Re: Lightworks NLE V11.5 released for Win. & Linux

Brian, just to clarify I did not mean that EditShare was literally limiting free speech, rather I was referring to the often used 'free speech not free beer' analogy.
To quote https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html :

"“Free software” means software that respects users' freedom and community. Roughly, it means that the users have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. Thus, “free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of “free” as in “free speech,” not as in “free beer”."

By the way, another interesting paragraph worth quoting from this page is the following:

"“Free software” does not mean “noncommercial”. A free program must be available for commercial use, commercial development, and commercial distribution. Commercial development of free software is no longer unusual; such free commercial software is very important. You may have paid money to get copies of free software, or you may have obtained copies at no charge. But regardless of how you got your copies, you always have the freedom to copy and change the software, even to sell copies."
(EDIT: Just putting it up because I think some people are under the misapprehension that 'free software' and 'commercial' must be mutually exclusive)

Cheers.

Last edited by Jon Shohet; February 2nd, 2014 at 02:51 PM.
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 03:54 PM   #172
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Re: Lightworks NLE V11.5 released for Win. & Linux

I think this is where there's a cultural clash, film makers usually want a stable, reliable, piece of software that enables them to create their films. Because Lighhtworks tradition comes from the editors themselves having a large input, rather than computer people, your philosophy runs counter to the Lightworks traditions.

The Lightworks developers listen to the input of users and a lot of the improvements come from editors and other users saying what they need or would like to see. Even a couple of my suggestions have ended up in it, although that could be just a coincidence and they were thinking along the same lines.

Sorry, the editors are the important people, the software is a tool, not an end in itself.
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 04:35 PM   #173
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Re: Lightworks NLE V11.5 released for Win. & Linux

Brian, it is not my philosophy it's the gnu's philosophy, although I do support it for the most part.

I'm a film maker too. I think you'd be surprised at how many film makers are getting more and more involved with free and open source projects and some even learning programming. The end in itself is not the software (or hardware), but rather the freedom to have more control over your creative tools.

In any case I think I made my point as clearly as I could, so I'll leave it that.

Best wishes.
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 04:42 PM   #174
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Re: Lightworks NLE V11.5 released for Win. & Linux

Agreed there is an element of crossover, only time will reveal how Editshare proceed with the open source release of Lightworks. At the moment, the centre of interest is shifting towards the Mac community.
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Old February 3rd, 2014, 07:51 AM   #175
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Re: Lightworks NLE V11.5 released for Win. & Linux

The Lightworks road map has been put back onto the web site: Roadmap
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Old February 4th, 2014, 10:06 AM   #176
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Re: Lightworks NLE V11.5 released for Win. & Linux

For those who wish to own their software - Buy Version Outright $279.99 | 214.99€ | 179.99,
Lightworks have given the cost of upgrading, as against 11.5 updates, which are included in the purchase price.

"If you purchase 11.5 using the 'Buy Outright' option, it's yours to use forever.
All 11.5.x updates are included.
Future upgrades from 11.5 to a subsequent release is priced:

$153.99 | €117.99 | £99.99"
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Old February 10th, 2014, 08:04 AM   #177
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Re: Lightworks NLE V11.5 released for Win. & Linux

Lightworks support have qualified the monthly subscription:

"The monthly plan is an opportunity to licence Lightworks Pro at a very reasonable price point. It is automatically set as a subscription with a monthly renewal. It should not be viewed as an opportunity to licence Lightworks on an adhoc basis - purchase a month, cancel the renewal, purchase another month again at another point. We will monitor for this type of activity."

Because of the same imports in the Free version as the Pro version, the 30 day Pro trial isn't now available in 11.5.

Last edited by Brian Drysdale; February 10th, 2014 at 05:13 PM.
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Old February 17th, 2014, 05:23 AM   #178
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Re: Lightworks NLE for Mac

Mattt Sandford, the Lightworks Product Manager has posted this:

"We are working on getting the Mac version ready for Alpha testing which should happen over the coming weeks (no date confirmed yet) The Mac Alpha is anticipated to last only for a few weeks while we make sure everything is as expected. Version 12 will then be released as a Public Beta on Windows, Linux and Mac! "

This is dependent on the testing.
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Old February 20th, 2014, 11:54 AM   #179
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Re: Lightworks NLE V11.5 released for Win. & Linux

The first Public Beta 11.5.1.a on Windows and Linux is available to download.this is a maintenance build which fixes several issues reported since the release of 11.5.

New Lightworks Version 11.5.1.a Now Available as Public Beta
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Old February 24th, 2014, 11:25 AM   #180
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Re: Lightworks NLE for Mac

Here's an interview with Matt Sandford talking about Lightworks' history and how it operates from the Mac perspective.

Strung Out Podcast ? Supreme Visuals
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