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Old February 15th, 2009, 06:32 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Carney View Post
is the HD SDI output 10bit 4:2:2 or still 8bit?
Good question Joe. I can't find any info on that. When I get a production model in my hands I'll have to shoot a smooth grad chart and see if there are any differences when capturing at 8bit or 10bit.
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Old February 15th, 2009, 09:06 PM   #182
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Additions to the "basic" clarifications:

The codec used with the HM700 is XDCAM EX at bit rates up to 35Mbps.
The wrapper/container used on a new "out-of-the-box" HM700 is Quicktime .MOV and it can be written to SDHC cards.


Within the .MOV wrapper will be long-GOP MPEG-2 with PCM (not MP2) audio. This can be imported and edited natively in real-time by FCP, and from my experience other Apple NLEs should be able to do the same.

Since some Windows NLE will also import .MOV and can edit MPEG-2 natively, these NLEs should also be able to edit the .MOV files.

Media Composer likewise should be able to "import" files, but will transcode to DNxHD.

I'm saying "should" because there are a whole flock of frame-sizes, frame-rates, etc. that need to be checked one-by-one.

1440x1080i will only be available via .MOV.

And, it appears that there will be no functional difference (i.e., timecode) between SDHC and SxS cards, which makes the basic 700 -- and 100 -- really good buys.

The addition of the KA-MR100 SxS module will allow the ability to write XDCAM EX to SxS cards in the .MP4 container, but will also unlock the ability to write XDCAM EX to SDHC cards in the .MP4 container.

You gain access to the entire XDCAM EX workflow from a JVC camcorder.

You can use all the tools (Sony Clip Browser, etc.) that are available for XDCAM EX.

You can use the current XDCAM EX workflows available for most NLEs. Just don't confuse the XDCAM HD (.mxf on optical disc) with XDCAM EX (.mp4 on cards).

If your NLE does not support XDCAM EX, you can use the Sony Clip Browser to convert files to another format.

===========

Still an open question:

The word "codec" has multiple meanings. Of course, we know both the .MOV and .MP4 MPEG-2 data are compatible with an XDCAM EX DEcoder. That's the definition of a format.

However, many different encoders -- of widely differing quality -- can be used to generate a compatible data stream.

Therefore, one also needs to know -- are different ENcoders (or different firmware) used for writing .MOV files when the SxS Media Recorder is not present and when the Media Recorder is present and the 700 writes XDCAM EX to SDHC and/or SxS.
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Old February 15th, 2009, 09:46 PM   #183
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I've attached a frame grab of the file structure on the SDHC card that contains both Quicktime wrapped and MP4 wrapped clips. As you can see the MP4 clips are in folders for each clip and follow the same structure at the EX1/EX3.
The Quicktime .MOV files are all contained in one folder (even though each of my samples are of different frame rates or dimensions) and xml files with the pertinent metadata are located in a folder beside it.

You may also notice that all the files have "DASH" as their prefix. The HM700 has the ability to make a 4 character prefix for the files. "CAM1" would have probably been ideal but I used "DASH" just so I knew those were my files.
Clips 1 through 4 were recorded as Quicktime. I then switched the camera to MP4 mode recorded clips 5 and 6, and then switched back to .MOV for clip 7.

I've also attached frame grabs from Media 100 Producer and Adobe Premiere Pro CS4 (Mac) showing that the XDCAM EX Quicktimes can be imported on a basic Mac system that doesn't have FCP installed, but does have the free open-source XDCAM codec installed. Media 100 doesn't seem to support the codec natively but instead prefers to transcode it into its own codec. Premiere Pro does seem to support it natively on the Mac as a .mov.

I installed XD Decoder on Windows XP and was able to open the Quicktimes in Quicktime player without issue. I assume this means that any Windows application that supports Quicktime will work with these files but I'm downloading the Premiere Pro CS4 demo for XP now and will have some more answers soon.
Attached Thumbnails
New GY-HM700 Camcorder-hm700_file_structure.jpg   New GY-HM700 Camcorder-media100import.jpg  

New GY-HM700 Camcorder-premiere_pro.jpg  
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Old February 15th, 2009, 10:18 PM   #184
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Thanks for the large post of answers a page or so ago.. and for the file info above... looks like we're getting closer to some grabs, reviews, footage..

Thanks for all your hard work.
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Old February 15th, 2009, 11:21 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood View Post
I installed XD Decoder on Windows XP and was able to open the Quicktimes in Quicktime player without issue. I assume this means that any Windows application that supports Quicktime will work with these files but I'm downloading the Premiere Pro CS4 demo for XP now and will have some more answers soon.
Success! I was able to import the Quicktime files directly into Premiere Pro CS4 on Windows XP without the need to transcode. The properties of the imported .mov clips properly report XDCAM EX as the codec and all of the sizes and frame rates seem to work. (The gray bars are the watermarking done by the trial version of XD Decoder.)
Attached Thumbnails
New GY-HM700 Camcorder-pp4_xp_import.png   New GY-HM700 Camcorder-pp4_xp_application.png  

New GY-HM700 Camcorder-pp4_xp_properties1.png  
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Old February 16th, 2009, 12:49 AM   #186
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"Within the .MOV wrapper will be long-GOP MPEG-2 with PCM (not MP2) audio. ... and from my experience other Apple NLEs should be able to do the same."

Confirmed -- .MOV files can be imported and edited as native MPEG-2/PCM in real-time by iMovie 09 and can be imported into OS X Media Composer. MC will transcode to DNxHD.

PS: Note that Media 100 still will not directly edit 720p30. If you import 720p30 -- it will convert it to 720p60. While this will work, the transcoded file will be twice as large.
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New GY-HM700 Camcorder-picture-4.jpg  
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Old February 16th, 2009, 01:12 AM   #187
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".MOV files can be imported and edited as native MPEG-2/PCM in real-time by iMovie 09
iMovie08 wouldn't accept the XDCAM EX Quicktimes. I guess I need to go pickup iLife 09!

BTW iDVD08 accepts the XDCAM EX Quicktimes just fine.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 04:20 AM   #188
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I've been told that the CCDs are once again 1280x720 but the red channel is offset horizontally and the blue channel is offset vertically allowing more than 900 TV lines of resolution (full 1080P.) We'll have source footage available shortly.
Interesting, though I think that should really have the caveat "...more than 900 TV lines of luminance resolution ...". With a 4:2:0 recording system, it shouldn't make much practical difference, except maybe for more colour aliasing than a non-pixel shift system.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 04:59 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood View Post
"Quote: Originally Posted by Brian Ladue
On another note does anyone know if JVC uses the same technique with the CCDs as they did before when the cameras (HD100s) started suffering from the split screen effect? And does anyone know what the native sensors size is? are they 960X540? 1280X720? I know they mentioned that H/V offset is used... so just wondering!?"

I've been told that the CCDs are once again 1280x720 but the red channel is offset horizontally and the blue channel is offset vertically allowing more than 900 TV lines of resolution (full 1080P.) We'll have source footage available shortly.
Any idea for the smaller GY-HM100? 960X540?
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Old February 16th, 2009, 05:16 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood View Post
iMovie08 wouldn't accept the XDCAM EX Quicktimes. I guess I need to go pickup iLife 09!

BTW iDVD08 accepts the XDCAM EX Quicktimes just fine.
Tim, 08 restricted import formats more than does 09. I'm shooting 720p30 H.264/AVC (not AVCHD) with a DSLR-type camera whose files QT played fine, but 08 wouldn't import. With 09 they import and I can edit them natively -- no convert to AIC.

No luck with the MPEG-2/PCM file with: Vegas 8 Pro, Studio 11, Avid Xpress Pro, and Canopus 4. The PCM audio imported fine, however. Don't yet know if it's the lack of an MPEG-2 codec or the 35Mbps data-rate. Expect a download of "XDCAM EX" codecs will be the solution.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 07:52 AM   #191
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Tim, just to understand you right:

In your example (screenshots of the media) there were those typical SxS folders (Dash0005) - did I understand you right that these folders (ex1 like) are only generated when KA-mr100 installed?

Or wayaround: out of the box the hm700 can only write quicktime movs, correct?

Thanks

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Old February 16th, 2009, 12:34 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood View Post
The HM700 (and HM100) have full control over the TC generator. You can preset the TC and record in FREE RUN, REC RUN or REGEN just like a tape based system. The other neat thing about the HM700 is that you can record in Continuous Clip mode which will append each new clip to the last giving you one big clip at the end of the day (split in 4GB chunks for Fat32.)
So, are you saying that the timecode will not restart for each clip? I remember reading someones post earlier and they said that cameras that record to SDHC cards restart timecode for each clip? maybe i read that wrong. Can you clarify? Thanks
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Old February 16th, 2009, 05:22 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by Uli Mors View Post
Tim, just to understand you right:
In your example (screenshots of the media) there were those typical SxS folders (Dash0005) - did I understand you right that these folders (ex1 like) are only generated when KA-mr100 installed?
Or wayaround: out of the box the hm700 can only write quicktime movs, correct?
Yes you are correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Ladue View Post
So, are you saying that the timecode will not restart for each clip? I remember reading someones post earlier and they said that cameras that record to SDHC cards restart timecode for each clip? maybe i read that wrong. Can you clarify? Thanks
As far as I can tell it won't reset to 00:00:00:00 in REC mode as long as you stay in that particular shooting mode (720 or 1080.) In my test clips the timecode I preset to 01:00:00:00 continued generating from clip to clip until I switched from 720p to 1080p, and then it reset to 00:00:00:00. Keep in mind this is a pre-release one-of-a-kind engineering sample so everything is subject to change by the time the camera ships.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 09:28 PM   #194
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For Sale...

Well, this thread has been a lot of fun, having just gotten back around to read it all.

I for one, need little more info to want one of each, the 700 + 100. The 700 will even prevent me from hopping ship to a 5D. Seriously. I know the application is different, but having just shot for a month last September with 2 breadloaf EX1's, I was very ready to find some better image quality...looks like I just did. And, I can keep with the form that I've come to love.

So I've got an HD250 in excellent condition w/ the 17x Fujinon lens upgrade....I think I need to talk to Scott Cantrell or Terri Nixon.

Maybe you really want a 250? =)
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Old February 16th, 2009, 09:31 PM   #195
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Thank you Tim, Chris

And thanks for the major effort you put into simply discussing this latest round of products, Tim and Chris...
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