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Sony NEX-VG10 / VG20 / VG30 / VG900
Interchangeable lens AVCHD camcorders using E-Mount lenses.


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Old August 24th, 2010, 12:29 AM   #346
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Old August 24th, 2010, 01:45 AM   #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Snow View Post
Steve, I'll just make a couple of points to clarify what I mean...
I totally agree.
Those of us who shoot run n' gun/ ENG/ event type footage will probably find the VG10 a difficult tool to work with due to the lack of features we are accustomed to.
If you are making a narrative film, or other types of structured projects, where you have the luxury of "set up" time, retakes, etc., it's maybe not such a problem.
I personally don't think we will wait very long for Sony to announce the next step in the APS videocam line, and hopefully it will address most of these concerns.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 07:43 AM   #348
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Steve's right about 'the way things were'...lens turret that swiveled into place giving you 3 choices of lens (close, med, long), distance hash-marks on lens so you'd use a tape measure for focus, light meter dangling around your neck, no ability to record sound or even, in many cases, to be able to sync up recorded sound because the motor ran so unevenly.
However, here's the point...do we want to go back to those good old days?
NO! Yet Sony and the other camcorder manufacturers know their days are limited. If they had their way, they'd parcel out minor improvements each year so that it would take 100 years to finally reach video camera perfection (of sorts).
With the HDSLR phenomenon forcing everyone's hand, their timetable has been upset and they've been forced to improve much faster than anticipated. Thus their only way to slow down this "rush to excellence" is to...you've got it, go backwards with certain key features.
Thus, no means of measuring exposure levels. What a bone-headed decision from our perspective but brilliant from theirs. List all the things you hate about this camera and you can conclude it was done deliberately.
Which is why RED has been our savior. They rejected this "slow train to nowhere" engineering mindset and decided to get it right the first time. Isn't it ironic that our savior has since been left behind in the dust?
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Old August 24th, 2010, 08:49 AM   #349
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Steve all very good points.
I think that people forget that DSLR cameras or in this case DSLR camcorders are not video cameras, but rather film cameras. And as such you would use them as film makers would.

That means setup your shots for exposure and framing and film. And pull focus when needed. Capture audio off camera and sync in post.

If you want the camera to have a lot of auto functions like full time auto focus and the like, and you do a lot of run and gun video, then stick to a video camera, which gives you a lot of these features.

So if you film live events such as weddings, where things change rapidly and are not scripted, then these type of camera are not for you. Yes there are those who are using DSLRs for event work, but it does take a lot more planning and preparation to get the appropriate shots. I shoot events and use video cameras for constant critical video, and use DSLRs for the money candid shots, such as preparation, establishing and reaction shots. Then the two are cut together in post.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 11:55 AM   #350
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With the HDSLR phenomenon forcing everyone's hand, their timetable has been upset and they've been forced to improve much faster than anticipated.
Isn't that great! Were it not for the HDLR, the video camera manufacturers would still be shoveling money into their stockholders' pockets and ignoring their customers.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 06:34 PM   #351
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I agree the vg10 would be a pain in the butt to use as a traditional camcorder.

But, if you adapt the methods of film style shooting you can solve the issues. For example, in the doc on Dylan in London it was as crazy as any wedding. So the solution was to shoot wide so everything was in focus. The 16mm lens is perfect for this type of shooting. When a CU was needed they walked up to the subject.

Also, folks didn't care if a zoom "in" went out of focus. They pulled it back ASAP. Thats why the look of an unfocused shot is so important.

Likewise exposure in high contrast situations weren't expected to have no blown highlights. This is why the ability to use a lens that has a circular iris is important. The ability to choose a lens with lots of internal reflections is also important.

To me it's not about going BACK but returning to the day when PHOTOGRAPHIC skills were required to shoot motion pictures. It was the thrill of applying those skills that made shooting fun.

But then I like cuts-only editing with only different speeds of fades to black. That's why the Media 100 was fine for me. I honestly draw a blank when confronted with folders of FX.

Conversly, when I shoot with an iPhone I tend to love FX because it covers over my lack of control during shooting.

So I agree this camera is certainly not for most. And, the inability to use the VF while controlling is a horrible problem. I'll hope someone will find the switch that senses LCD position.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 06:47 PM   #352
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Steve, I appreciate what you are saying. Thankfully the vigorous competition among the camera manufacturers in the large sensor camera market will likely bring an assortment of cameras in many 'sizes and flavors' that will satisfy a diverse range of applications and budgets. It's great to see this dynamic in the camera market especially considering the overall economic conditions now.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 09:32 PM   #353
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You are right -- this is just the beginning.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 10:27 PM   #354
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In this still from a video it seems both LCD and VF are on.
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Sony NEX-VG10 AVCHD E-Mount Lens Camcorder-picture-1.jpg  
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Old August 24th, 2010, 10:39 PM   #355
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It would be great if that turns out to be the case. Unfortunately the review on Sony NEX VG-10 Camcorder Review says not. Here is a quote from the review:

"– Control Placement and User Interface. I'll be frank. The user interface on the VG10 is really not that good. It is based on that of the NEX5 which I roundly criticized when I reviewed that camera here recently. It improves on the NEX5 slightly by having a few additional buttons, but these are all covered by the LCD screen when it is closed.

If you shoot using the EVF then you'll likely have the screen closed, and this means that not a single control is available unless you open the screen cover, at which point the view through the EVF disappears, and reappears on the LCD. So to shoot while making any adjustment, even something as simple as exposure compensation, requires you to have the LCD screen open, even if you're not using it for viewing. Who on the Sony design team thought that this was a good idea?"

I'm sure it would be a trivial change in the camera's firmware to allow both to be on. Let's hope Sony decides to support this.
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Old August 25th, 2010, 08:36 AM   #356
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I wonder if the reviewer had the manual to read before making this comment. It may well be a menu change as is the case with the NX5U. Default is only one active but there is a menu change in the NX5U that allows both to be on and I wonder if this is also the case with the VG10.

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Old August 25th, 2010, 08:41 AM   #357
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I had the exact same thought ...
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Old August 25th, 2010, 09:25 AM   #358
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One of the - few - buttons in the controls appears to be a Finder/LCD button. Assuming it works like the same button on other Sony cameras, I suspect it will switch the Finder on, even with the LCD screen open.
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Old August 25th, 2010, 11:50 AM   #359
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Sony, if you are reading this, please note. If you have a burning desire to artificially cripple the VG10, leave this function alone. I hope the camera you provided to Luminous-landscape for review was an anomaly. LCD or viewfinder selection isn't a 'pro' feature; it's a fundamental function without which the camera will be a pain to use.
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Old August 25th, 2010, 04:25 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by Steve Mullen View Post
In this still from a video it seems both LCD and VF are on.
Actually, no. The power switch is in the OFF position, so what you are seeing on the LCD and VF are reflections.

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