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Old December 9th, 2013, 02:37 AM   #181
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Dave: thx for your thoughts, I find the rx10 a bit overwhelming to start with, like with the pana gh3 there is a plethora of functions which not only help using the camera but have a impact on the image and you need to spend a lot of time going through each one of them to reach the full potential of the camera. It doesn't have the ease of use my nex-ea50 had but that's too much to expect from a photocamera but it's certainly the first one ever that reaches out further to videographers, from what I read so far photogs where not so positive in general about the camera and found it too expensive, seeing what it offers for video I think it's cheap.

I also see many people complaining about the codec and wishing it had a option to select a better one as well like you can with the gh3 but the included avchd codec is as good as it gets, unless there is something else going on that has an impact on image quality, I see macroblocking on fast movement with my cx730 as well so that's nothing new but never had a client noticing it, it's also a good thing I don't shoot fast action sport with this camera :) If I have to believe some reviewers the macroblocking can get so bad the footage becomes unusable but like I said unless something else is going on that I am not aware about yet those comments are pretty exaggerated, I shoot avchd 50p almost exclusively and never had to trow away a shot because it was not usable. Asking Sony to give us something better with a firmware update is pretty useless because nex-ea50 users know by now that will never happen, unless they bring out a new model which will include those functions.

If all goes well I hope to have some useful footage from the city Bruges by the end of this week, with or without macroblocking :)
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Old December 9th, 2013, 02:46 AM   #182
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

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You just know I shall have some fun comparing these machines.
I had a long thought about the bmcpc as well but I had to be honest that for my paid work this camera would be useless, the rx10 however will be used until the lens falls off. :) The only comparing I will be doing is with my gh3 as I need to find a matching picture profile before Saturday.
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Old December 9th, 2013, 03:02 AM   #183
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

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Originally Posted by Jim Giberti View Post
The RXi0 you can just pick up and shoot, both of the BMCs take a good deal of finessing, but deliver a superlative image for film and TV work.
I thought you where planning on comparing both camera's which explains my comment but I agree that the rx10 is much more a run and gun camera what the bmcpc never will be, eventhough many people say otherwise. As I see it the bmcpc has a much steeper learning curve to get the most out of it but if you manage to master it the footage can shine in a way the rx10 will be never able to. Only from what I have seen so far on Vimeo just very few seem to master that skill. I also think the rx10 takes quite some experience as well, you can just pick it up and press the rec button but several footage I have seen so far also show people are using the camera in a wrong way.
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Old December 9th, 2013, 01:17 PM   #184
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Can anyone comment on how a RX10 might match up to an EX1R? Thinking about event shooting where the big cam could run sound and have the small camera(s) as cutaways and closeup angles. Are talking "Sony" color here? Mainly thinking about if reds/blues/purples will look similar enough. Minor color correction is of course expected, but are they at least in the same vein?
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Old December 9th, 2013, 02:42 PM   #185
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

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Originally Posted by Nate Haustein View Post
Can anyone comment on how a RX10 might match up to an EX1R? Thinking about event shooting where the big cam could run sound and have the small camera(s) as cutaways and closeup angles. Are talking "Sony" color here? Mainly thinking about if reds/blues/purples will look similar enough. Minor color correction is of course expected, but are they at least in the same vein?
I've used the EX1 a lot, and yes it has that certain sony character to the image. I do see some of that same character in the rx10, but it definitely has a character of it's own, not better or worse, just different. And while it doesn't have nearly the same image control, i think there's enough settings to get it somewhat close to the EX1 in camera, and then tweak the colors to match it better in post. I've done shoots where i've mixed 5d2 and EX1 with satisfaction, so if sony and canon colors can be made to cut together, certainly sony to sony can be. keep in mind we're talking sony consumer colors vs sony pro colors, which i do see a distinct difference.
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Old December 11th, 2013, 07:09 PM   #186
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Today I found out the camera handles highlights just fine, and look at all that macroblocking! That's avchd at it's worst :) The codec is fine too as long as you don't blow up the image 400% and put your nose against the screen.

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Old December 12th, 2013, 03:10 AM   #187
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Ah, that is exactly the footage I need to see. Done I'm sold on this. Noa was this recored to cards in the camera?
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Old December 12th, 2013, 03:19 AM   #188
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

I"m currently uploading a higher quality sample so the video can't be watched for a while, you can download that to have a look and yes this was recorded to a sdhc card in camera.

Last edited by Noa Put; December 12th, 2013 at 04:00 AM.
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Old December 12th, 2013, 04:20 AM   #189
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Great, thanks Noa.

Here's what I'm loving about this and DanC's footage from the Grand Canyon - so many detailed backgrounds that would be screaming moire and aliasing on a GH3 or 5D or BMC look amazingly clean and maintain their detail regardless of the codec.

I haven't taken it out yet but have shot some lit interior/skin tone tests and side by side with the BMPCC to see if they could cut together reasonably.

So here's the kicker; after testing them with the same model and lighting, BMPCC with primes at matching FLs, the RX10 was still too strong (for my creative taste) even at Natural -3, -3, -3

I use Filmconvert as the LUT for my BMPCC footage so I chose a generic RGB curve that I figured would match the RX10 and boy does it map that Nat -3-3-3 to a really nice color space and gamma curve. It takes the RX10 footage to a whole other look and the natural "organic" look that I like.

I'll post a couple of stills tomorrow.
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Old December 12th, 2013, 04:55 AM   #190
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Jim, please post film convert settings. Sounds very interesting.
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Old December 12th, 2013, 05:46 AM   #191
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

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I'll post a couple of stills tomorrow.
That would be very helpful, thx, at the shoot in Bruges I was expecting moire or aliasing but I really have to look to see anything that is bothering me and I deliberately panned most shots to see how the camera would deal with this fine detail. with my canon 550d that would have been a moire hell with those small bricks and I"m sure that would be the case with any canon dslr offering below the 5d mark 3. I do see some subtle banding in the blue sky while I was panning the camera in some shots, most certainly a limitation of a 8 bit camera and the avchd codec.

It's also a very sharp image coming out of this camera and it deals very nicely with high contrast scenes after you dial back the contrast in camera. I found it very easy to set my exposure with the zebra's, even from a reflective small lcd screen in full sunlight. Only for fine focusing I need to use a loupe, the peaking is good but sometimes it clutters the image with all white edges and it's hard to see what exactly is in focus.

I don't understand why some people complain about the codec, yes it is stressed when you shoot highly complex and detailed scenes with lots of motion and yes you see it when you take out a frame and magnify it to pixelpeep. I even read about one "reviewer" that had to take some images out of a shoot as they where unusable according to him which I think is nonsense.

Everything I shoot is avchd 2.0 50p and I never had a client saying that the shades look like mud or that there is macroblocking visible, why? Because you just don't notice until you freeze-frame an image and start blowing it up, but honestly, who and why would you do that unless you are making a high end film or commercial that's going to be published on national tv or cinema, but then you use a Red or similar camera, not a 1200 euro 8 bit dslr. For those seeking better image quality at a low price point there is still the bmcpc but let's be honest, after seeing what people publish with this camera it is a much more difficult camera to get good footage from, I even saw footage from a more experienced shooter that shot outside in the snow to find out it looked so bad even colourcorrecting couldn't solve the problem. A camera problem? No, a wrong setting during the shoot. I will take the rx10 on a paid shoot soon with minimal experience and I will go with enough confidence it will perform as expected, I know I would be nervous taking a bmc pocket cam along.
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Old December 12th, 2013, 12:32 PM   #192
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

I was forced to use the RX10 as a backup camera at a church service last week - absolutely no room for my usual backup cam. I have to say, I was quite blown away by the quality of the footage! Only thing I really need is an android app that lets me control the video functions... is this available? Set it up as an extra cam during speeches and the results were not that great... but there was appalling lighting conditions in the room. Absolutely delighted with this - sold my 7d to pay for it. Think this will be getting a lot better usage from me!

Love the footage I'm seeing from you guys...
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Old December 12th, 2013, 02:42 PM   #193
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

If the light is really low, try shutter priority and 30 rather than the "default" 60, you'll buy a bit more headroom, as long as there's not "too" much motion. Found that helpful with the 100/M2. I was able to get close to the low lux modes on7xx series Handycams that way, and with the f/2,8, should be pretty good...
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Old December 12th, 2013, 04:01 PM   #194
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

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Only thing I really need is an android app that lets me control the video functions... is this available?
According to the Sony site it's available as an App, too bad I have a windows 8 phone, When you set the camera up during the speeches, what was not so good about the footage?
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Old December 12th, 2013, 04:03 PM   #195
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

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Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst View Post
I was able to get close to the low lux modes on7xx series Handycams that way
The cx series also switch to 1/25th shutter in low lux mode, what also should help quite a lot on the rx is to dial down contrast and saturation in the standard preset, that will show more in darker area's, you can always add both in post when needed.
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