Vegas Video discussions from 2005 (Q3Q4)

DJ Kinney · September 30th, 2005, 08:29 PM

Short answer is, if the device isn't a 24p device, Vegas can no longer render out a 24p stream to the device. Not that it ever could. See...

Once upon a time, back in Vegas 5, you could render out 24p to a non 24p device, but it was actually inserting a pulldown without you having to tell it to do so. Therefore, you were really rendering out 29.97.

Vegas 6 will just gray out the screen, forcing you to render to the device in 29.97.

This was mostly an annoiance for people who wanted to give 29.97 a 24p cadence. They would render out 24p to their devices, but now, can't. They are forced to add that extra step manually. The rendering 29.97 to 24p and then printing out to the device at 29.97 again, hence, inserting a pulldown.

If you print out to your DVX100, you can print a 24p stream.

October 1st, 2005, 01:48 AM

And it has made me crazy. I don't remember this in 5, but i have done too many edits to remember.

David
DCS Video, LLC

Edward Troxel · October 1st, 2005, 06:35 AM

It definitely did it in 5.

Sean Seah · October 1st, 2005, 10:13 AM

Great info Mike. Thanks!!

Mike Kujbida · October 1st, 2005, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Seah

Great info Mike. Thanks!!

You're welcome Sean. Thanks go to Edward though for all his hard work putting these newsletters together and sharing them with us.

Mike

Frank Delucia · October 1st, 2005, 05:36 PM

I created 9 mini-projects - one for what was going to be each chapter in the final DVD.

I was thinking that I could simply nest these projects into one project when done and work out the chapter transistions. But nesting the projects was crashing the PC - seems some kind of rendering occurs as you nest projects (maybe I had C: chosen as some default rendor work space?).

I then tried to create a new project and copy/paste each of the mini-projects workspace into this new project. That crashed the media-manager with some kind of sql duplicate error.

Now I tried to render each mini-project to DV-AVI and put them into a new project, but a test burn of a DVD doesn't look as good as the original mini-project test burn to DVD.

I am starting to think that I need to re-do the edit work in a new project, media clip by media clip, making one large project.

Am I lost? Anything that I can do to recover this?

Frank Delucia · October 1st, 2005, 06:45 PM

Would it help to clean up unused media and make sure each file is named different? Do the folders in the MEDIA BIN need different names as well?

Bill Binder · October 1st, 2005, 08:38 PM

.

Not sure, but I think there are some alternatives that might work...

If your cam doesn't support true 24p, then you must print to tape in 29.97 (aka 60i). Now depending what your goal is, you have two choices at this point. You can render out your 24p timeline to 60i using either: (1) 2-3 pulldown or (2) 2-3-3-2 pulldown. If you want to actually "watch" your 24p footage on a 60i display device (like a TV), then you should probably use 2-3 pulldown because it'll look smoother. HOWEVER, if you are archiving your footage, you should probably render out to 2-3-3-2 pulldown because if you ever want to bring that footage back into Vegas (or whereever), 2-3-3-2 pulldown can easily be stripped back out (reversed) to get you back to a perfect 24p avi again (which is not possible with 2-3 pulldown). So using 2-3-3-2 60i will allow you to save your video to a 60i device and still be able to get back to your original 24p at a later time.

Also, you shouldn't have to dual render if you shot 60i, but want to eventually get yourself to 24p in a 60i 2-3 pulldown format (for that movie look in post when originally shot interlaced 29.97). Just bring in your 60i-based events into the timeline, set your project settings to 24p, and then when you render out, render out to 24p inserting 2-3 pulldown (which actually results in a 60i avi file) -- that should only require a single render. I believe you should be able to do this straight to print-to-tape also (if not, just render out, then print to tape the rendered file). This technique will cause Vegas to convert your 60i events to a 24p timeline, then during render it'll go back to 60i with a 24p 2-3 pulldown.

If you originally shot in 24p, and your project settings are 24p, but now you're trying to print-to-tape using a device that can't accept 24p, then print to tape using 24p inserting 2-3 or 2-3-3-2 pulldown (pick depending on use). If your eventual target is DVD, there is no need to go back to 60i at all, just render to 24p mpeg2 and bring into a 24p project in DVDA. After the burn, people's DVD player's (or TVs) will insert the 2-3 pulldown to get to 60i automatically for you. This is also nice because you can actually fit more video on a single DVD this way.

I'm not 100% sure of all of that, but hopefully some of it might inspire you to find something that works?

:)

Gregory Doi · October 1st, 2005, 09:10 PM

Hehe. Thanks guys. I really just wanted to know if i could export 24p to my deck. I know i can render it in 29.97. However, I shot it in 24 and i wanted to export it the same way i brought it in without using my DVX as a deck.

Nonetheless the comments are much appreciated. I couldn't find any support on the Sony site when it came to a question like this.

Thanks Again,

Greg

Dan Shaffner · October 1st, 2005, 10:43 PM

Can anybody recomend how to get better rendering from Veags?

Here is the problem, I have been using Cyberlink's Power producer. I really like the sofware. I can render the video and chose the image size, bit rate and all parameters when rendering.

Vegas does a much better job of titles, fades, slow motion, watermark overlay (big deal for me Power Producer would not do it at all)

However when rendering in VEGAS I can not choose the resolution and bit rates for MPEG2, so the files are huge, and higher quality that the original files. And Windows Mewdia 9 Codec is making larger files at lower res than Cyberlink did in Win MEdia 8 codecs

are there any plug ins for VEGAS to allow selectable attributes for the Win MEdia 9 Encoder, and the MPEG2 encoder, I gues that is what I really need.

DJ Kinney · October 1st, 2005, 10:56 PM

Simple question. When I nest a project, which takes presedence? The deinterlacing settings that I used in the nested project, or the master project?

Practicle example for this would be, say, can I turn off all blending, resampling, everything, in the clips, and then just turn it on in the master project? Or should I deinterlace the clips and turn everything off in the master project?

And if I'm using Mike Crash's Smart Deinterlacer, should I apply it to the nested project, or the master project?

Thanks,

DJ

Edward Troxel · October 2nd, 2005, 05:28 AM

Why can't you change the MPEG2 or WMV settings? Just pull up the File - Render As box, pick the MPEG2 format, and then click on Custom. Change the settings as desired on that screen.

Guy Bruner · October 2nd, 2005, 07:11 AM

Edward,
I suspect Dan is using Vegas Movie Studio 4. Sony really screwed up IMO when they gave Movie Studio the Vegas name. People get confused all the time.

Edward Troxel · October 2nd, 2005, 12:59 PM

That could be. Now if everyone using Vegas will use "Vegas" and everyone using Movie Studio would use "Movie Studio Vegas" a lot of questions could be more accurately answered.

Herman Chen · October 2nd, 2005, 03:12 PM

How exactly do you go about implementing that "rewind" effect, basically playing a video clip backwards? I have Sony Vegas 6 and I've tried searching around the help files but there isn't really anything that serves much assistance. Maybe someone here knows how to do something like that?

Thanks.

October 1st, 2005, 01:48 AM	#812
David Perry Posts: n/a	Yes I've seen this And it has made me crazy. I don't remember this in 5, but i have done too many edits to remember. David DCS Video, LLC

October 1st, 2005, 06:35 AM	#813
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	It definitely did it in 5. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

October 1st, 2005, 05:36 PM	#816
Frank Delucia New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 21	Nesting or Copy/Paste problem I created 9 mini-projects - one for what was going to be each chapter in the final DVD. I was thinking that I could simply nest these projects into one project when done and work out the chapter transistions. But nesting the projects was crashing the PC - seems some kind of rendering occurs as you nest projects (maybe I had C: chosen as some default rendor work space?). I then tried to create a new project and copy/paste each of the mini-projects workspace into this new project. That crashed the media-manager with some kind of sql duplicate error. Now I tried to render each mini-project to DV-AVI and put them into a new project, but a test burn of a DVD doesn't look as good as the original mini-project test burn to DVD. I am starting to think that I need to re-do the edit work in a new project, media clip by media clip, making one large project. Am I lost? Anything that I can do to recover this?

October 1st, 2005, 10:43 PM	#820
Dan Shaffner New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 20	Need Vegas 4 Rendering Codecs Can anybody recomend how to get better rendering from Veags? Here is the problem, I have been using Cyberlink's Power producer. I really like the sofware. I can render the video and chose the image size, bit rate and all parameters when rendering. Vegas does a much better job of titles, fades, slow motion, watermark overlay (big deal for me Power Producer would not do it at all) However when rendering in VEGAS I can not choose the resolution and bit rates for MPEG2, so the files are huge, and higher quality that the original files. And Windows Mewdia 9 Codec is making larger files at lower res than Cyberlink did in Win MEdia 8 codecs are there any plug ins for VEGAS to allow selectable attributes for the Win MEdia 9 Encoder, and the MPEG2 encoder, I gues that is what I really need.

October 1st, 2005, 10:56 PM	#821
DJ Kinney Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 277	Deinterlacing Nested Projects Simple question. When I nest a project, which takes presedence? The deinterlacing settings that I used in the nested project, or the master project? Practicle example for this would be, say, can I turn off all blending, resampling, everything, in the clips, and then just turn it on in the master project? Or should I deinterlace the clips and turn everything off in the master project? And if I'm using Mike Crash's Smart Deinterlacer, should I apply it to the nested project, or the master project? Thanks, DJ

September 30th, 2005, 08:29 PM	#811
DJ Kinney Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 277	Short answer is, if the device isn't a 24p device, Vegas can no longer render out a 24p stream to the device. Not that it ever could. See... Once upon a time, back in Vegas 5, you could render out 24p to a non 24p device, but it was actually inserting a pulldown without you having to tell it to do so. Therefore, you were really rendering out 29.97. Vegas 6 will just gray out the screen, forcing you to render to the device in 29.97. This was mostly an annoiance for people who wanted to give 29.97 a 24p cadence. They would render out 24p to their devices, but now, can't. They are forced to add that extra step manually. The rendering 29.97 to 24p and then printing out to the device at 29.97 again, hence, inserting a pulldown. If you print out to your DVX100, you can print a 24p stream.

October 1st, 2005, 10:13 AM	#814
Sean Seah Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,498	Great info Mike. Thanks!!

October 1st, 2005, 06:45 PM	#817
Frank Delucia New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 21	Would it help to clean up unused media and make sure each file is named different? Do the folders in the MEDIA BIN need different names as well?

October 1st, 2005, 08:38 PM	#818
Bill Binder Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: San Francisco Posts: 542	. Not sure, but I think there are some alternatives that might work... If your cam doesn't support true 24p, then you must print to tape in 29.97 (aka 60i). Now depending what your goal is, you have two choices at this point. You can render out your 24p timeline to 60i using either: (1) 2-3 pulldown or (2) 2-3-3-2 pulldown. If you want to actually "watch" your 24p footage on a 60i display device (like a TV), then you should probably use 2-3 pulldown because it'll look smoother. HOWEVER, if you are archiving your footage, you should probably render out to 2-3-3-2 pulldown because if you ever want to bring that footage back into Vegas (or whereever), 2-3-3-2 pulldown can easily be stripped back out (reversed) to get you back to a perfect 24p avi again (which is not possible with 2-3 pulldown). So using 2-3-3-2 60i will allow you to save your video to a 60i device and still be able to get back to your original 24p at a later time. Also, you shouldn't have to dual render if you shot 60i, but want to eventually get yourself to 24p in a 60i 2-3 pulldown format (for that movie look in post when originally shot interlaced 29.97). Just bring in your 60i-based events into the timeline, set your project settings to 24p, and then when you render out, render out to 24p inserting 2-3 pulldown (which actually results in a 60i avi file) -- that should only require a single render. I believe you should be able to do this straight to print-to-tape also (if not, just render out, then print to tape the rendered file). This technique will cause Vegas to convert your 60i events to a 24p timeline, then during render it'll go back to 60i with a 24p 2-3 pulldown. If you originally shot in 24p, and your project settings are 24p, but now you're trying to print-to-tape using a device that can't accept 24p, then print to tape using 24p inserting 2-3 or 2-3-3-2 pulldown (pick depending on use). If your eventual target is DVD, there is no need to go back to 60i at all, just render to 24p mpeg2 and bring into a 24p project in DVDA. After the burn, people's DVD player's (or TVs) will insert the 2-3 pulldown to get to 60i automatically for you. This is also nice because you can actually fit more video on a single DVD this way. I'm not 100% sure of all of that, but hopefully some of it might inspire you to find something that works? :)

October 1st, 2005, 09:10 PM	#819
Gregory Doi Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Waipahu, Hawaii Posts: 70	Hehe. Thanks guys. I really just wanted to know if i could export 24p to my deck. I know i can render it in 29.97. However, I shot it in 24 and i wanted to export it the same way i brought it in without using my DVX as a deck. Nonetheless the comments are much appreciated. I couldn't find any support on the Sony site when it came to a question like this. Thanks Again, Greg

October 2nd, 2005, 05:28 AM	#822
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Why can't you change the MPEG2 or WMV settings? Just pull up the File - Render As box, pick the MPEG2 format, and then click on Custom. Change the settings as desired on that screen. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

October 2nd, 2005, 07:11 AM	#823
Guy Bruner Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ashford, AL Posts: 937	Edward, I suspect Dan is using Vegas Movie Studio 4. Sony really screwed up IMO when they gave Movie Studio the Vegas name. People get confused all the time.

October 2nd, 2005, 12:59 PM	#824
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	That could be. Now if everyone using Vegas will use "Vegas" and everyone using Movie Studio would use "Movie Studio Vegas" a lot of questions could be more accurately answered. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

October 2nd, 2005, 03:12 PM	#825
Herman Chen New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 23	that "rewind" effect How exactly do you go about implementing that "rewind" effect, basically playing a video clip backwards? I have Sony Vegas 6 and I've tried searching around the help files but there isn't really anything that serves much assistance. Maybe someone here knows how to do something like that? Thanks.