Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

You can prepay for one year of membership when you purchase through a retailer or etailer (like Amazon). This gives you the same price as purchasing an annual plan directly from Adobe, but you pay up front instead of monthly.

From the Creative Cloud FAQ: Adobe Creative Cloud ? FAQ

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Hi Dennis,
From what I understand, there will be multiple versions of each application available at various stages, so you can roll back to a previous version if need be.

Thanks,
Kevin

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

While it may help that, there are numerous other reasons that Adobe has done this. Above all, we think it will create more advantages than drawbacks.

•You'll get updates to your favorite applications all year long, rather than just once a year at NAB time.

•If a new device or workflow were to come out, you'd get support for it much more quickly.

•As a business owner, you can write off 100% of the subscription price, while if you expensed it, you'd have a residual amount sitting around after depreciation has run out.

•You can use new applications to bring in new revenue to your business. For example, if you use After Effects, you could easily learn Edge Animate and sell HTML 5 compliant banners to media companies. You can host your own website and customer websites to save money, and to bring in revenue with Business Catalyst.

There are just a few that come to mind.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Add me to the now VERY LONG LIST of disgruntled long-term Adobe customers!

Here's why:

I own CS6 master collection. Over time my upgrade costs have been around $35.00 per month. For example, I used cs5 from December 1, 2010 until April 24, 2012 (17 months) when I upgraded to cs6 for 549.00 (via cs5.5 deal). That works out to 32.29 per month. The new price will be some kind of weighted average between 19.99 per month for the first year, and 49.99 (and likely up!) after that.

This really is quite a large increase in cost over time. Also, I don't feel that the value of the cs6 suite that I own is reflected in the current Adobe offerings. I know it has value, because I can continue to use it, but that is about as reassuring as a slowly sinking boat in the middle of the Ocean... time to start swimming :)

Hope that helps explain why there is so much "hysteria" on the net.

Mark Wilson

PS If I was a new user faced with paying 2600.00 for cs6 master, I can certainly see how 49.99 per month would be appealing. But I am not a new user, I am a long term loyal customer!

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

And that last sentence in your PS hits the nail on the head - as Apple found out. I'm a recent convert to Adobe from FCS but it seems some of the lessons of (very recent) history did not count for much in the Adobe boardroom...

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

There seems to be a bit of a price variation between countries.

Adobe Community: Adobe, when will you get your pricing structure in order?

No great surprise I guess given the differential in jean prices.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

I wouldn't mind purchasing it from the USA and even paying the VAT but not sure the product would activate? No reason why it shouldn't?

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

I have loved Premiere from the very start because it was so easy to use. Although I use premiere proffesionally, I dont produce so many programs that it can pay for the cloud solution - the price in Denmark is way above the US price. I will buy a AVID product and start to learn the use of this. That would also be a good thing because all the TV stations use AVID and I will then be able to edit on their systems. Guess some smartasses told Adobe that this was the way to go - I can tell: It is not....

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

The CC arguments have been going in circles for days now, but the poster 'Conroy' made a point on the Adobe Photoshop forum that I'd not heard before, and one I thought particularly well made:

I bet a significant number of these customers only upgraded to the horrendously buggy CS6 because they were led to believe that they must do so if they wanted to remain on the upgrade path to a perpetually-licensed CS7 and beyond.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Overall, there isn't nearly as much hysteria here as some other places...

I think the ultimate vote will be taken with each user's wallet.

And...I doubt that Adobe went into this thinking they'd have 100% customer retention...if they were smart, they were planning on maybe a 50% signup rate relative to normal upgrade cycle traffic with maybe an 80% rate in a year. Big changes like this rarely cause immediate growth...

I tend to think about Discreet *edit, which was a solid editing application...probably 5 years ahead of it's time in some ways...and eventually the very loyal user base were quite satisfied...so satisfied that frequent upgrades weren't that interesting any more...and it was shut down as a product.

Supporting mature software applications previously sold isn't a business...it's a cost of doing business when you sell the application, not the maintenance.

If purchases of CS are primarily upgrades, the majority of those units are 30-40% of retail...and a significant portion of the user base then decides to upgrade every other release...or every third release...and now your revenue is getting a little limiting. Adobe has been working their tails off (at least from what I've seen in the video end of the business) to add whiz-bang tradeshow traffic-stopping features for 5 or 6 years now. After a while, it gets a little bloaty...but improving efficiency and speeding up responsiveness and file management doesn't make much of a tradeshow demo, so the resources get prioritized to the circus features as that's what gets the users to buy an upgrade.

Now...does this subscription system have its drawbacks? I would say so...

-Resellers can only sell the workgroup licenses, which are priced to drive any group directly to individual licenses, which seems odd to me. It's like the heave-ho Apple gave its resellers with FCPX, but with one last bone thrown their way.

-How will plugin developers keep up? The versioning is going to be a little fluid...hopefully the innovations will leave the SDK alone for practical periods...

-No mention is made of what happens if an application is simply discontinued...what if Adobe continues to change the plan as they did with Soundbooth...Flash Catalyst...On Location. If current apps are discontinued, it sounds like they will probably be available in the "cloud" to use in their last state for subscribers...but it isn't really stated anywhere that I've seen yet.

-I think it could have been implemented with customers having a bit more warning...which is the source of much of the panic in the streets at this point. the "Cloud" subscription was available, and I suspected they'd be heading this way, but I don't know if any of us saw the complete elimination of perpetual licenses coming this year.

But, while I am not without some concerns about the subscription system, one thing I am looking forward to is Adobe working on innovations that make the software faster, more efficient, and more intuitive...the fundamentals.

I'm sure they don't have a plan to drop the super-amazing magical improvements, but with the revenue less erratic and the pressure not being on for the one chance they have to prove value and produce revenue each year (or cycle), I'm looking forward to each application being able to settle in on release schedules that make sense for them instead of all of them trying to hit the same synchronous target date with vastly different additions/revisions...which does result in compromises being made in the state of readiness of some apps over others, etc.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Kevin,

Thanks for the comment. Please understand, this is not an attack on you in any way.
(Just for the record, I'm a customer of yours and bought your FCP book back in the day!)
As a matter of fact, I am sure you are right......for now. The part I am worried about is in
two, or four, or 'fill in blank here' years from now. When Adobe has a large, steady base of
customers that are on the cloud system. I have seen subscription based services in many
walks of life. Cable subscriptions and cell phone subscriptions. Even my electric bill. On
all of these, my costs have steadily went up over the past couple years, with no increase in
the services offered. One of the reasons for this may be the near monopoly
status of these groups. You cannot get over the air TV because of the mountainous
area I live. So you either pay for cable or don't get TV. Cell phone companies have
been consolidating and buying each other to form one company, and renting each others
towers. So costs have went up.....but as for service we have 3G service. Why pay to
give more service when you have a group of subscribers with almost no other options?

I am sure that you mean what you say and truly believe Adobe will continue to push
out innovation. And they probably will for a time. I am also sure, that if a decision is made
that 'this is really about as good as it gets and we are going to do mainly bug fixes
from now on' that decision will not come from you but someone else in the company,
that would be more concerned with the bottom line. If they have a bunch of subscribers,
with almost no options, they won't need to spend money on innovation, they will
have a captive audience. I wish you the best with this new subscription model.
Unfortunately, this is where I get off the train. I like Adobe products. A lot. But I
absolutely abhore the subscription model.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Kevin, thanks for that info. Welcome news!


I also think the innovation will need to be ramped up. Essentially Adobe now will have to convince me every month to stick with them, versus yearly(ish) now. Now, obviously I'm not going to be jumping from editing system to editing system every other month, but if I ever feel like someone else is worth moving to it will be much easier to do at the end of a month versus trying to amortize a yearly upgrade cost.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

I personally hope this single minded license model fails for Adobe. I don't use their products directly and I'm totally pissed about it.

I have feet in the commercial world and in the indie film world. Adobe has just totally alienated and pissed off the entire low budget indie world that has come to heavily rely on AfterEffects to increase the production valve of their films. Every effects person I know that works on indie stuff is totally turned off on Adobe right now.

These people can't afford to pay a monthly subscription when much of their work is so modestly reimbursed. Adobe is taking a tool away from people that use it for passion and not for profit. They may not loose use of it today but as the market moves forward they are stuck in the past.

Luckily the paint vendors didn't start charging a monthly subscription for use of their products while Van Gogh or Rembrandt were creating their art.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Tim, I appreciate your optimism and gentleness in your approach to Adobe, but I think they are treating you (us) quite roughly!

As a former software marketing executive, I can assure you your first point is quite wrong. Upgrading the existing user base is far far easier, cheaper, and more reliable than selling new seats (ofen having to convert people from competing products.) It is highly lucrative, that is why all software companies have done it for the last 30 years! It's not just for the end users benefit.

Your second point rings true to me. Keeping all these applications in lock-step must be a nightmare. But there are many possible ways for Adobe to manage its offerings to solve this. For example, they could transition back to individual products instead of suites - that would also smooth out the revenue flow.

In my opinion, they are treating the existing user base with a great deal of contempt, and are imagining (hoping) a new, higher paying, user base will emerge. Silly thing is - they could have had both!


Regards

Mark Wilson
B.Sc. MBA

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

I don't mind bending over backwards to support Adobe as a company that produces the great creative software that I use. I just draw the line at bending over forwards, that's all.

Currently planning to stick with CS6 for the foreseeable future.

Andrew

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Sounds good but what happens if your computer craps out and you can't reactivate on a new computer?
I wasn't worried about it at first, because I own the CS6 master collection, but obviously there will not be an upgrade path for me...other than CC that is. I also wonder if the updates will come automatically or when I decide. That could be problematic if I'm in the middle of a project. I love the suite and I'm hoping it works out. All my old software will be useless as well if they don't allow you to reactivate it. I own Avid Media Composer, and can always move to Edius, but I can't live without After Effects and Photoshop.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

What I was talking about is supporting software that isn't upgraded.

More mature products get upgraded much less often...some of the loudest voices in the protest noise are those users who object to the subscription because it will cost more than buying every other upgrade...or sometimes every third release... Those users are in the ecosystem, but as larger and larger numbers of them go to infrequent upgrades, it's less lucrative...and frankly less predictable.

That's what I mean by "maintenance"...not the selling of upgrades...

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Very often users don't need the very latest upgrade, the codecs they use may only be changed every two or three years (or perhaps longer). Do most users need the latest version of Photoshop, when they only use 10% of it's capabilities? I could quite happily use Word 2003 because Word 2007 (which I've got) doesn't really offer any further functions that I'd use.

Perhaps VFX is the area that seems to need the very latest versions. A maturing product range isn't something that manufacturers like to see and bundling together fast moving with the slower moving technology makes business sense.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Unfortunately once a software company has made the perfect software for some people, their sales drop...if they make the perfect software for everyone, they're out of business...

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Brian, a point I have made in other forums, is that some of the features in recent Photoshop upgrades have saved me many hours of processing time. The RAW processing engine in Photoshop CS5 was good, but I'd feel crippled without ACR7. Same thing with the Content Aware features. Heck, some of those don't so much save time, as make it possible to do things you simply couldn't do in earlier versions. The cost of a single app subscription could easily be earned in a single day. In fact, the cost of a full range subscription ($600) shouldn't be too hard to recoup. On that basis, I am sure my Photoshop upgrades have easily paid for themselves over the years.

I have been creeping up, one additional Adobe product at a time over the last three years, and was actually feeling irritated that a full Creative Suite would make more sense for me, I'd be starting from scratch again, and would lose the upgrade discounts on my existing products. With CC costing me the same in NZ as it does in America (I have been paying up to 50% more up to now), I will be in a win win position, and am very happy. Roll on June 17th.

I absolutely accept most of the negative comments made in this thread, and if some of the long term fears are realised down the road, I'll 'reluctantly' look at other options.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Well, it's more like a feedback loop. New software provides new capabilities and the new capabilities generate the need for additional functionality. Also, hardware capability increases over time, making previously impractical algorithms possible. At least that's how it should work.

Adobe has been feeding their investors this monetization plan for some time but I think they're about to have a J.C. Penney moment.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Only time will tell if it was the right decision or not. Who'd have guessed that FCPX would have recovered any credibility at all in a couple short years?

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

FCPX may have gained some cred, but Apple has shown it's interest is in being a consumer products company now and can't be depended on to maintain a sensible software migration strategy. Buying a bunch of licenses for a media organization should probably get a manager fired.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

One thing I'm not quite clear on with the Cloud:

If I sign up to a yearly plan, what happens at the end of the 12 months? Do I need to resign for another 12 months to keep the price at $50? Or can I keep paying the $50 on a month-to-month basis like what happens at the end of my 12 month internet or phone plan?

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Part of my video work is directing/engineering video for conferences. And in these varied conferences, I've seen a lot of 'subscription based income' models being put forward in not only software but other more fluid or service based industries. Microsoft is doing the same thing with their 'Office' suite. And Tim Kolb and others make a good point; what do you do when you start running out of 'wiz-bang' features that seem to add mostly useless bloat?

Like it or not, I have a hunch you'll see more of it in other areas, (not necessarily production related) as well. Methinks we've been living under the "May you live in interesting times" curse and this is one more manfestation of it. But for me, the jury is still out on whether this will be a good thing or not.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

I suspect it really depends on what you're using your Photoshop for. If you're making full use of it's capabilities it becomes worthwhile, however, if you're using it for basic graphic or image manipulation it might be harder to justify upgrading every year.

It may be a case selecting the correct subscription for your needs. You may find that just having Premiere and A.E. covers most of your needs and GIMP meets your Photoshop requirements. It depends on how often you're using each application and the market you're working in. A short term subscription on a individual application may also work.

I know the use of the cloud for collaboration has been discussed for a number of years, how useful it is may vary depending on individual work practises and if decision makers rather be down in the hotel bar or watching your latest cut. .

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

That argument is getting really old. People were saying that 2 years ago when FCPX was launched. In the meantime people have been cutting video with FCPX from day one, and Apple has been releasing regular and free updates continuously since then to make the product better.

FCPX is one the best selling Apps on the App store, it has pretty much every feature editors wanted, and its very fast and quite stable.

At $299 it also happens to be one of the least expensive options out there.

Add in Motion at $50 and you have a complete bargain of a package. Bear in mind that Apple does not penalize people from other countries, so users in the UK and Australia are essentially paying the same amount as people in the US for the software.

Motion makes it easy to design templates; so there is a huge eco-system of 3rd party plug-ins for FCPX, as well as plug-ins from the major developers like Red Giant etc.

Pixelmator is not as good as Photoshop, but at it does most day-to-day tasks that the majority of casual Photoshop users use, and at $15 its a steal.

So FCPX at $299, Motion at $50, & Pixelmator at $15 works out at a grand total of $364 for a full video & Photo and effects editing package with a perpetual license. Throw in Resolve Lite for grading if you need it for free.

Horses for courses, but I wonder why people are still complaining about FCPX?

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

I don't question the capability, only the ongoing support for a product that may get EOLed with little warning by a fickle company. Consumers forget and businesses mitigate risk. The entire NLE sector provides an interesting risk analysis.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

That's more or less how my collection of Adobe apps has grown, but now two single app subscriptions brings you $5/month short of the full CC package, so it makes sense to subscribe to just one, or them all.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Here is a link to a new survey on Creative Cloud. I would urge everyone to fill out.
Survey: Is Adobe Creative Cloud subscription worth the price? | Business Tech - CNET News
It's a quick survey, and if we don't let them hear our voices though every means possible, we can't bitch about it.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

I ran through that CNET survey. Quick? Yes. Superficial? IMO, definitely. Oddly, it seems more like a marketing survey than a real "pulse of the people" inquiry, but if nothing else it may help a CNET author produce an article.

Maybe Adobe is aware of, or will notice, that survey. In any case, I know Adobe and just about every other video/cinema related concern follow DV Info Net very closely. I believe the discussions here are much more powerful than a 2 minute surveymonkey thingee for a computer web site.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Thank you, Kevin. That's brilliant.

It's excellent that products will run for 90 days if not synced with Adobe.

Here's my 'first impression' report: Adobe Creative Cloud First Impressions. Also, how do you get started?

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Thanks for that Sareesh. That was useful.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Sareesh, I appreciate your blog, but you're only addressing a fraction of the potential problems. Look on the Adobe forums right now. There are people who have lost service for 3 days. I've had the master collection since they started the suite option, so the cost is not the biggest issue. This actually goes far beyond the cost of the service, and the deeper you go, the worse it gets for the end user. This is especially bad for the casual user.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Rob, no worries. I can't conjure up problems that I haven't encountered yet!

I'm sure many will have issues, as I expect to have, too. It's for Adobe to sort out its issues with its customers.

They shouldn't forget the exodus of customers from FCP-X to Premiere Pro not very long ago. The same thing can happen in reverse at the drop of the hat. I'm sure that will keep them on their toes.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

I might be missing something in all this analysis, but I'm not yet in crisis mode over the Creative Cloud move (though I reserve the right to be in the future!).

I've read the Adobe FAQ on the move, and it seems not a huge difference than now. Maybe in some future version they'll cross a line for me personally. But this is not the FCP fiasco that Apple pulled. (despite it's current sales on the Apple Store, which is to be expected given everyone using video these days for consumer level work, which FCPX seems to be targeted at).

Would I personally prefer not to have the Cloud forced on me? Yes. Do I think that Adobe is moving their incredibly feature rich product suite forward for us pros, both in the indepedent and major studio world? Yes. How many of us are not connected to the Internet for at least some part of 90 days? Almost zero.

An untold story here, I believe, is the issue of piracy. I know that MSFT is experiencing huge privacy in Asia, and this might be an issue for Adobe, though I'm not sure how it could, given that you need a registered serial number. By forcing people online for subscriptions, they are making it almost impossible to hide production by being offline.

Ultimately, as opposed to my immediate jumping ship from Apple over their amateur job of abandoning their client base, I am content to wait and see how this all plays out. I've not seen anything in the FAQ from Adobe, nor these great indepth discussions, to make me worried. But then, my name is Alfred (G). Now where do I pay MAD for referencial use of their trademark symbol?

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

The CC version will sill suffer piracy as much as any other version will. Protection mechanisms can always be defeated.

Andrew

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

Andrew I don't think piracy has as much to do with this as we might think. As a matter of fact most people that pirate software don't actually use it anyway. So you're not going to turn someone who hardly uses the product into a subscriber anyway.

I think this is a carefully executed plan to get ahead of Apple for once. Apple burned Adobe with the push for HTML5 and Adobe is making a offensive move rather then a defensive one this time. I suspect if Adobe can be first to market with a subscription service they stand a good chance to bring Final cut users back into the fold where Adobe thinks they belong. If I get sucked into paying $50 bucks a month for Adobe, it's pretty likely that's where I'm hanging my hat. it's highly unlikely I'm going to turn around and pay Apple another $50 a month. Make no mistake this is the beginning and not the end of this model.

It's a shame but they are using a cell phone and cable company model on us. And if we don't reject it strongly right now, there will be no stopping it.

It can be done. Netflix got the message. And so did Makers Mark. You have to vote with your wallet.

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

I don't think for a moment that it's being done to solve a piracy issue - it's all about a consistent cash flow from the subscriptions.

What I am saying is that it won't at all affect the chances of the software being pirated. Again, "protection mechanisms can always be defeated."

Andrew

Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe
 

As someone who was pirating the software because I couldnt afford to drop $2k on the suite and then when CC was announced IMMEDIATELY became a subscriber I think it's a big deal for them. The current setup that they have is CAKE to crack. The subscription is a much harder model. Every college kid I know has a pirated copy of cs6. If it becomes a giant pain to crack the subscription they'll pay the money.


my $0.02.

Also: Been using CC for something like a year with zero issues.