Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

Okay thanks. I thought that out of my two boom mics, the shotgun was better for outdoors, cause it seems to do a better job at getting rid of background sound outdoors, compared to my hypercardioid, but is a shotgun not the best choice for outdoors?

For studio environments, what would be the best mic if doing ADR in a studio, most often do you think?

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

A shotgun mic is typically used for exteriors.
The same model mic is usually used for ADR, Of course the ADR room is usually very dead, and the acoustic signature is simulated in post, Some production sound folks capture an convolution reverb impulse if ADR is certain.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

A hyper-cardioid microphone is typically used in places with close reflective surfaces (i.e. indoors)
Sennheiser MKH 50 is a favorite if you can afford it. Audio Technica AT4053b is lower-cost favorite.

Technically, the deciding factor is the presence of nearby (a few feet) reflective surfaces. Typically there are none outdoors, and frequently encountered indoors. However, in a large sound-stage or a very large room, or in a room with floor, walls, ceiling treated to be non-reflective, then a shotgun will work OK.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

Oh okay, well right now I have the AT4053b hyper and the NTG-3 shotgun. I usually use the hyper for indoors, and usually the shotgun for outdoors. There are times when it comes to sound effects where I will use the shotgun indoors cause it gives a certain more acute sound on small objects, for example, but is this a good way that I am doing it?

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

Whatever works. If it sounds good there's no right or wrong.. For instance, a few big name/big $ VO folks use 416s. Which 'technically' would not even be on a VO mic list.
Sometimes I use an AT4071 long shotgun for very low SPL sources (watch ticking, ect) due to it's extremely high sensitivity (90mV).

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

Oh well I talked to one of them more tonight and he said his reasons for wanting to place mics all over a scene and get surround sound during production is because it will sound much better than in post, and he said it gives you more coverage, compared to just recording the actors voices close up only, with no other coverage. He says it's risky, not having that extra coverage in case something goes wrong in post.

He also says to create a surround sound mix in post from mono tracks is a lot more work, and by doing it during shooting, we would be saving ourselves lot of post time. So those are his reasons. He also says that I should record all of my background sounds during shooting as well, but I said that I want to have a clean dialogue track in case, I wanted to edit around the background sounds and therefore, keep the background sounds separate. He says that he can totally tell when background sounds have been added in after the fact though, and that audiences are not stupid on that He also says audiences can tell the difference between a natural surround sound track that was captured during shooting, compared to one created in post from mono tracks. Do you think that's true though?

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

It might sound "true enough" for a zero-budget, limited-schedule amateur production.
But the people who do that for a living wouldn't dream of such a workflow.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

If you want to work with him, go do it. You might review his previous work. Has he done any projects like the one you’re considering? How do they sound? How did he accomplish that? Does he have references from people who seem credible? Have his films hit the festivals you’re interested in?

Richard sums it up nicely; you’ve asked these questions repeatedly and have received consistent answers from a group of very experienced people. You’ll find these same answers in Jay Rose’s excellent books.

I guess you don’t want to accept the ideas and best practices shared freely in this thread. We all want you to succeed. You don’t have to do things my way, or anybody else’s way, but, these practices have stood the test of time and are still with us as primary workflows in dialog recording for film and video. 90(?) years of sound for film and 50+ of sound for video means something. Many approaches have been tried. All working pros have made many mistakes in their work, the good ones have learned from them and kept going.

It’s true that a sound person in front of you can do some recording on your project, and forum contributors can’t. It seems like you don’t have a lot of choices for sound recordists in your community. That’s a tough situation to figure out, you have my sympathy. But nobody here is helping you to rationalize your potential recordist’s very unconventional approach. It’s still wrong.

If it hasn’t been said clearly enough, here it is: Distantly recorded sound is bad sound. Dialog recordings where the sound perspective (distance, direction, placement) changes during a shot don’t track with the language of film, and viewers/listeners may perceive miscues in which it doesn’t sound like the other clips/shows/films they’ve spent a lifetime listening to.

Use of surround playback for ambiences is more than most do, except for scenes that are meant to have an immersive sound experience in films that can afford the approach. Battlefields, for example. Other scenes with an emphasis on effects for immersion.

Use of surround playback for dialog violates one of the primary aesthetics of sound for film: Dialog is direct and mono, and comes from the center of a L/R stereo mix or the center speaker of a surround mix.

Professional recordists (almost) never record ambiences during dialog takes because not having control in post of dialog level independently of background sound leads to them not being hired for the next production. They tend to be pretty conservative about sticking to best practices approaches. Location sound mixers usually have to advocate for production time for them to collect such ambience recordings.

There will be exceptions for ambiences/Atmos that can only be reasonably captured at a particular time. That *doesn’t* include typical dialog scenes.

But most productions go to the SFX library and/or foley, or send out an SFX recordist without a camera crew, for reasons of efficiency and money.

I do wish you luck on your next film.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

"Distantly recorded sound is bad sound."

Write that on the chalk-board 100 times.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

That's true, he just wanted distant recorded sound as background ambience. But I feel that recording sound close is better, and I never needed it to be recorded distantly, accept for very peculiar scenes, such as someone shouting from way for away or something like that. I won't work with them, as they seem to think that this is the way to do it, from recording bands, but I prefer the boom mic close up, and don't mind creating surround sound in post, and don't feel that it's too much work, that I should do get it during shooting, like they do.

Plus I feel there way is much more risky, cause if an actor walks out of the path of one mic, into another, you might hear it in a very obvious way, and it might not sound like he/she are naturally moving throughout the room. It's just way too risky, and I'm not going to do it there way... They say it gets you more coverage, but it's risky and problematic coverage, it seems.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

If you friend's way was correct, every sound recordist in the business would be out of work! 'Audiences can tell the difference between a natural sound track and one created in post'. I'm sure he is quite correct on that point, which is why a naturally recorded sound track on a blockbuster movie would have the audience walking out in droves and the film company going out of business!! Audiences don't want a natural sound track, they want something where their focus is drawn to what the director wants them to see and hear, not the sound of someone mowing their lawn off set!

You will be better off recording the sound on your own than using these know all know nothing friends who have recorded a couple of bands- whoopee doo- big deal. You won't find any better advice anywhere from dyed in the wool professionals than you have had on this forum, so ignore it at you peril!

Roger

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

If you want your friends to “help” you for free let them do it their way. Let us know how it turns out.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

Yep you guys are right, I won't go by their advice. I was also wondering, when it comes to surround sound, should the music also have six channels of music in the surround sound mix, or no?

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

There is someone named "Ryan Elder" over on Creative Cow / Audio Professionals who is asking almost exactly the same questions as you are here. If that is not you with an alias name, then go over there and read the responses already posted to your questions.

tl;dr NO

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/30/877574#877574

Lol, but his name is Ryan right?

Looks like he got the same answer there too.

I recognize Ty Ford, he used to post here and very knowledgeable about audio.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

Ryan, have you considered that you might be taking on too much with you project? Your knowledge of the most basic aspects of audio recording seems to be limited to say the least. You seem to be doubting the advice of some of the best people in the business on two forums because your no knowledge friends are telling you differently.

So there is a parade of soldiers marching in perfect step down the road, all that is except for one soldier who is marching right left whilst every other soldier is marching left right. An officer asks him why he is out of step with the rest of the men. His friend in the crowd hears the officer and says " You are incorrect, my friend is the only one in step and all the others have got it wrong"!!!

Good luck with your project :-)

Roger

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

Anybody suggesting that for dialogue scenes I bet has no real experience on professional film sets.

And *IF* you do plan to go down this path anyway, then you had better have the budget to afford a three person (or even bigger) sound department

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

Because "usually" (depending on factors to do with costume / blocking / etc) the lavs will give much better dialogue than plant mics will, unless you're lucky with the circumstances. As quite simply lavs will be much much closer than plant mics will be (unless... the cards fall just right with blocking etc so you can hide the mics in just the right spots. But you'd need: 1st a very skilled sound team, & 2nd a sound team which is larger than just one person and is probably three people or more).

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

Agreed.

Except even wired lavs are not really used much. Due to being somewhat impractical (you're severely limiting their movement), and being a rather small cost saving in the overall grand scheme of things.

They're idiots.
Or lazy.
Or both.

Exactly. This is why plant mics are a limited use niche tool, and are not your primary way to get audio in usual circumstances.

Are you shooting in a crystal clear perfect sound stage? No.
(and even in that situation, it is unlikely plant mics would be the *optimal* main choice)

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

They're so very different what you're talking about.

Would you assume an Aussie Rules player knows anything about NFL just because both involve running around kicking a ball and stuff? No, that would be totally silly.

Six months of experience on a professional film set in a sound department would soundly thrash six years of experience recording bands.

They're coming from this from the completely wrong perspective, recording a band is not the same as recording a film.

At the point in time I feel you'd be better off in the long run 100% ignoring them, as whatever advice they're giving you they might get right by luck is completely negating by all the horrible B.S. they'd be telling you.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

ha!

It is a very good book. So is this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Location-Soun...1201/din02c-20

A very good analogy Roger.

And I've found in general that people tend to "get" an analogy better when using something from the camera dept to compare with what we do in the sound department.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

Yes, most of the time the optimal angle for the boom pole is roughly ish horizontal. Not at 45 degrees!!

If a noise is off camera then 100% do NOT record during the dialogue!!! No way.

Even if it is on camera, I'd much rather not record it during the scene itself.

Are you meaning getting separate room tone on the day? (or foley or wilds on the day???)

If not, then you've clearly got the wrong "audio people". Ignore them, and associate yourself with some professionals instead.


He'd mean something like a Rode WS6

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...2855/KBID/3801


In an ideal dream world then I could only use a boom and never lavs.

Coming back to reality though..... that is not happening.

You'd need a director, and DoP, and the entire film crew, be willing to make sound a priority for them.

That just doesn't happen, you'd have to be kidding yourself to believe it.

Thus lavs are necessary.

And I recommend running both a boom and lavs at once at all times.

For ADR then it could be useful to use the same mics, but otherwise no.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

There are seven basic kinds of sound recordings that are used for serious cine/video production editing. They each have specific purposes for sound editing during the production, and it is unrealistic to attempt to record more than one at a time and achieve a proper final sound editorial mix.

(1) DIALOG which is picked up during principal shooting with actors. The goal is to get the actors' speech as ISOLATED and CLEAN as possible so that extraneous noises, music, etc. don't interfere with editing.

(2) ADR or "Dialog Replacement or "Looping" where the actors are called into a sound-isolated studio and re-speak their scripted lines of dialog while watching the recorded picture. This is typically time-consuming and expensive for the obvious reasons, so every attempt is made to pick up good "clean" dialog during primary shooting.

(3) ROOM TONE is BY DEFINITION recorded in exactly the same place, within seconds immediately before or after shooting the take. Its purpose is to fill in gaps between sentences, words, phrases so that you don't have dead silence which sounds very unnatural. It is recorded with the SAME microphone in the SAME position as was used for recording the dialog. You need perhaps no more than 30 seconds of Room Tone for dialog editing purposes. It requires the director to instruct the cast and crew to "freeze" in place for 30 seconds while the Room Tone is recorded.

(4) AMBIENCE is recorded INDEPENDENTLY. Typically well apart (in time and space) from recording the production dialog. This is typically general location sounds like surf breaking on the shore or indistinct chatter in a restaurant or highway traffic, etc. etc. Its purpose is to provide a long-form (several minutes) of stable and consistent "background" to cover edits, shot angles, etc. It is typically recorded by the sound designer or editor perhaps days or weeks apart from principal action shooting.

(5) SFX (sound effects) are isolated recordings of specific things. There are libraries of literally millions of SFX clips available. When shooting many situations where sounds occur between/during phrases of dialog, the microphone is positioned for optimal pickup of the actors voices. So, typically sounds like a door opening, etc are not picked-up optimally by the dialog microphone. So we edit in the SFX into the mix at exactly the right place and at a level and position consistent with the scene in the video.

(6) FOLEY And then sometimes, it takes sounds that are synchronized with what is seen in the picture. A very common example is footsteps. And these are produced by "Foley" where someone reproduces the footsteps while watching the scene to synchronize the sounds.

(7) REVERB In many cases, because the dialog (and other sound elements) were recorded "clean", after everything is edited (for position) and located (by panning) and balanced (by audio level) you need a consistent location feel. An obvious example is a scene in a cave where we expect there to be heavy reverb and echo, etc. If you try to use "natural" reverb, you will end up with a horrible, jumbled mess when you finish editing the dialog. In some cases real "echo chambers" are used where the mix is sent into the (isolated and typically remote) room with a speaker, and then picked up at the other end of the space with a microphone which is brought back into the mix. It is more common in modern times to use digitally-generated echo/reverb.

It only takes the experience of editing sound for a production once to understand the difference (and importance and usefulness) of these kinds of audio recordings. NONE of these sounds can be properly captured by scattering microphones around the set and attempting to record them during principal shooting actors actions. Anyone recommending such methods has clearly never actually done it, and furthermore has not even thought through the consequences of attempting such a method.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

Okay thanks, the types sound you describe are the methods I have been using before. However, when it comes to reverb, normally I find that the reverb going into the mic is enough reverb and I don't need to add any more in post. The mic seems to pick up enough to my liking sometimes even a little more in which case, I don't want anymore.

Does this mean I have been doing something wrong when getting reverb in my recordings, even if it all matches up in editing?

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

It sounds like you are doing simple productions where you don't need to create very realistic or complex sound mixes. But when you start doing more serious jobs, you will find that "wet" source stems will cause you headaches when you have to combine many different kinds of sounds together and make a convincing mix out of them.

If whatever you are doing is working for you, then you can't argue with that. But developing bad habits like that will not be very helpful for your career in the future.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

Oh well in my experience so far, if I want sound effects, I will try to create reverb, that will match that of the reverb that was already recorded with the voices in production. I would just play around with it till I get a match, but is this not a good way of doing it?

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

Oh well in my experience so far, if I want sound effects, I will try to create reverb, that will match that of the reverb that was already recorded with the voices in production. I would just play around with it till I get a match, but is this not a good way of doing it?

I would also try to record the sound effects in the same location, or one with similar acoustics, to see if that would work as well, and a lot of times it has and audiences said they could not tell the difference, that the sound FX were recorded somewhere else, other than the voices.

Is that what you mean? Am I not doing it a good way, by recording the voices with reverb already in them? I've tried putting up sound blankets in the past to get rid of reverb while recording actors in locations, but I found that the blankets haven't really made much of a difference. So I just accepted the reverb that was already in the room, even with the blankets. Is that true that the blankets do not make a huge difference in lots of cases?

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

If you are happy with what you are doing, then just do it.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

After five pages in this thread and responses from some of the best in the business, you are still asking basically the same questions that you started with. As Richard said, just do what you are comfortable with.

It sounds to me that you are aiming at a highly professional polished finished product, with virtually zero starting knowledge and experience. At some point you need to just do it, alternatively shelve the project until you have been on a film makers course to get some hands on experience.

Roger

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

I would say forget a filmmaker’s course; get on a/some real set(s) as a production assistant (on LEGITIMATE/funded projects) with real professional crew folks and see how all these things are done. Watch like a hawk, absorb, ask questions during downtime and lunch.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

I wanted to say something to the effect but I couldn’t think of a polite way to phrase it.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

Oh I sorry I didn't mean to keep repeating myself. I've been on other people's shoots before and so far everyone is doing the boom mic as close as possible and no one is even bothering with planting mics around the room. So I can do it like that then.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

Yes but were those “real” shoots? Often helping our friends with projects doesnt teach us anything because they are also doing everything wrong and simply dont know it. If you get on a legit project as PA, say a low budget indie feature that has funding/a budget and real industry pros working, you would most likely learn a ton about the way all the things youre asking about are properly done.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

They were feature film shoots done by others I went to film school with, and I did the production audio and other things for them.

Not sure if those count as REAL shoots but they were features if that makes any difference? :). I also recorded sound for a trailer that was bigger budget.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

Did they use those goofy multi-microphone schemes?
Did you talk to the audio editor?
Did you hear the resulting sound track?
Did it sound "professional grade"?

Same questions.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

I’d say try to get on something that isn’t a student/school/amateur project. You would want to get on something funded/with a real budget and real professional crew people. Cant tell you exactly how to find those...here in Houston, Texas you have the Houston Film Commission and Texas Film Commission websites that have ads with projects seeking crew. Hopefully there’s something similar in your region. I know this all sounds like a pain in the ass but if the recommended books and all the advice here aren’t getting you where you need to be then I cant think of anything else.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

Oh okay, but the films I worked on were done by former students, and they didn't do them for school, they did them after we had all graduated. Do they still count as student projects, if we are no longer students, and it's been a few years since we graduated? They got cast and crews and everything.

I live in Canada, but most of the movies here that were advertised that I applied to, just so happened to be made by former classmates.

Accept the for the trailer I worked on, which was done by people I haven't met before then.

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

No, they wouldn't have me talk to the audio editors, so I never met them. I heard the final mix after the movie was complete. I would say some was professional grade for a mix, and not were not so much, if that is what you are asking?

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

I really despair when you find graduates from film, TV and media schools who know a fair amount about one subject but the school skimmed over others in a way that either confuses or convinces the graduates of facts and practices that are simply wrong.

I NEVER blame the students. Their teaching staff however, get 100% of the blame.

Shotguns are a very common example of where students (using an English phrase) get totally the wrong end of the stick.

The number one rule of successful shotgun operation is all about distance. The shortest path from source to destination. You do NOT want reverb if it can be avoided. Mainly because it is NOT even reverb. Shotguns move in space so relationship between wanted sound and unwanted sound constantly changes. You hear reflections, flutter echos, unwanted sounds, and audio clutter and because it's changing, the type and content of the 'reverberation' changes too. You want dry, clean audio, with the highest signal to noise ratio you can get - even if in the edit it gets swamped with cathedral reverb - because this treatment will be constant. Shotguns are often criticised for being difficult indoors - but this is simply because they are a capturing instrument - they have no magic cut-off at a certain distance. If they aim at a wall, then you hear the wall - with whatever being reflected.

The art (or craft) of booming revolves around the operator hearing what the mic captures and adjusting it. You cannot do it without a clean feed of the mic output, so you hear odd reflections, aircraft, the PA sniffing - that kind of thing. You aim your mic with one eye on the camera lens to check what their focal length currently is so you can estimate how close in you can go to get the cleanest sound without cameras yelling "boom in shot" and having to reshoot. Novice boom ops droop the boom, they opt for more distant miking because it's easier and they mistakes don't get seen - but they do get heard. You see people booming indoors with the long haired wind sock over the Zeppelin shaped windshield basket. I'm amazed people had to explain hairy sausage! indoors experience will tell how light you can go. Maybe totally naked with no wind protection, and just long slow boom movements, or a simple foam shield for faster booming, or maybe just the basket without the wind cover because there is a light breeze through an open window. The boom ops will be discussing if DT100's are better than HD50s for the ancient ones, or the modern crop of 'posh' phones are better. Some demand isolation, others need some leakage. Each to his or her own of course. Shotgun mics are simply not a point and record device. They are a specialist tool, each with it's own character and preferred way of operating. I just don't see film school graduates knowing this kind of stuff. They vaguely point the mic at the talent, and react to movement, rather than predicting what is about to happen and preparing. You see them oblivious to the camera about to commence a slow zoom out, forgetting their booming distance is about to increase. You see many obsessed with overhead booming, not even considering camera framing where laying on the floor could get the mic closer in. They forget that the editor will be screaming when the only audio they have is so distant as to be useless, when they can see the subjects in the frame and wondering why the boom was in the next room, from what they hear?

The comment about student productions is very accurate, from what I see. Bad practice learned from other people's bad practice. A production shot by graduates has a quantitive lack of quality thresholds because everyone works individually based on their specialism, and a false sense of how good they are. A basic level sound person working with a basic level camera team have nothing to go on. The camera people may not enable sound to even see the framing, and maybe won't have the courage to warn of booms in shot, or spot boom shadows - I hate these, so obvious in the edit but not spotted on the shoot. Sound may not even discuss how close they can go. On a seasoned pro shoot you will see sound and camera coordinate. Can I go closer? The camera op warning when the frame is encroached and the boom op mentally storing that distance. The sound people will warn picture when they hear problems. They may make themselves unpopular, but not as bad as having a ruined scene because they didn't notice the guy two fields away with a chainsaw. Film schools just spend too little time on some subjects, and booming shotguns is such a common one - and I note, often not delivered by a sound specialist.

The idea a sound person even has to ask these questions brings the course credibility into question for me. Multiple mics? Dialogue? Sound effects? Should you use them? Yes - if it is appropriate. That's such an obvious answer, yet graduates seem glued to a fixed set of rules. Why would you record multiple mics? Because you need them. Lavs and shotguns? Why not - its a budget issue not a technical one. If you can afford a mic per person, your success rate goes up. If you cannot afford them, then you need a simple effective solution instead. Probably a boom op who is on the ball. A good op with a cheap mic that can be eq'd in post would win for me over an inexperienced one with an expensive mic.

As for sound effects, wild tracks and the dialogue - this is something for the pre-production meetings. Over the years I've lost count of how many times I have had to say STOP. We cannot record good dialogue on a single beach, with gulls and waves and have everyone look at me and say "but we have to - we don't have the time or budget for ADR". However - the location sound recorded is amazingly useful to the audio folk for realism. No damn good for the speaking though!

Re: Should I be using multiple mics to record dialogue and sound effects?
 

Oh okay, well in film school I took a course that deals a lot more with directing than audio. With audio, I learned a lot from asking other audio people, and be reading tutorials and watching tutorials online. It was only later that I was told I was doing it wrong and that I should be recording surround some on production, so I don't have to create a surround sound mix later. But those were only two people telling me that, who have a music recording background, and everyone else says one boom following the voices is the way to go, plus lavs if we can get them.

I was doing boom before, and I have a shotgun and hypercardioid mic. I already had a hairy sausage which I have used before, but I never heard it called that before, which is why I asked on here. I've been using it for about four years now, but it's always been called a blimp or a zepplin or wind protection. Never heard the term hairy sausage, and it wasn't called that at all on the box, or in the manual. But thanks for letting me know!

As for past experiences, one thing I hated is how the directors allowed the DP to have full control over where the boom goes. The DP will decide on where the boom goes based on what is best for their lighting, even when it's in too far away of a place. I wish that more directors would allow the sound department decide where the boom should be, and if there is a shadow from getting in close with the boom mic, the DP should just have to light around that and get rid of the shadow, for the sake of better sound.

But the directors I've worked with so far, allowed the DPs to have full command on where the boom mic is too be placed, so they ended up with sound that was too far away, and had to be turned up later in post, and you could tell there was a distance in some of the scenes I worked on.

But I don't think that film school can teach every department in all one course, or can they, and they just won't?