Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

My field recorder has started having problems with the power lately. I use the FR2-LE So I use batteries, but if I have the option of plugging it in a I will, to save on battery power.

However, lately, when I try plugging it in, the field recorder will say "low battery", and then shot off after a bit. This has happened the past three times, I tried plugging it in.

But then when I unplug it and let it run on the batteries, the batteries are full. So it can't be low battery if they are full of course. But then as soon as I plug it back in, it says low battery, and then shuts off right away later.

Does anyone know what the problem could be?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Batteries have a certain life of recharges, where after a number of cycles or due to other aspects in their use in their working life they won't hold their charge, The solution is to either buy new batteries or (depending on the type of battery) send them off to be recelled.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Oh okay, but it's not the batteries that are the problem cause they are full. The problem is, is that when I plug in the machine to a power outlet, the machine does not realize that it is being plugged in. The machine reads it 'low battery', when it does not realize it is plugged into a power source.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

What happens if you remove the batteries and plug it into the mains?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Nothing. So it the power cord to the plug in must be powered through the batteries. The only thing is, all the new batteries I try are new, but for some reason the machine forgets they have a full charge, when you plug in the plug in.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

It could be a fault with the power supply in the recorder or the mains cable. Assuming the latter is OK, you may have to send the recorder to an agent for repair.

Check the mains in cable with a meter to see what it's supplying to the recorder,

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

The Fostex FR2-LE uses an external AC power supply that plugs into the 12VDC jack on the side, correct? It sounds to me like that power supply box may have gone bad. Someone with a multimeter could check its output in a few seconds and let you know. If that's the case, there are lots of replacement AC power bricks available through Amazon and elsewhere. Make sure it's the same voltage (12V I believe) with a current rating at least as high as the original (this will be printed on the power adapter somewhere) and uses the same kind of connector wired like the original (looks to me like a 5.5mm coaxial plug with the center positive, but that's just based on looking at some pictures of the unit; check to make sure). There should be many to choose from for not more than $30 or so (maybe quite a bit less).

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Does it operate normally on batteries, and only have issues on mains power, or is mains power ok and batteries the issue, or both - it's a bit unclear?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

He is using the power supply while the batteries are in. Since the power supply isn’t working or not supplying enough voltage the low power warning is displayed and it’s using the batteries instead. He’s under the mistaken notion that the external power flows through the batteries and by removing them he’s breaking the circuit. Which isn’t the case. Probably just needs a new power supply ($20 Amazon).

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

"Probably just needs a new power supply"
Yes, that would be the first step for diagnosing this issue. Make sure replacement PS has the same plug size, voltage and a minimum of the same amperage as the OEM PS, More amperage is ok, less is not.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Oh okay, well if the circuit is not being broken then, then why does it need batteries at all then, if I am using a plug in power source?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

The battery operation works fine, just when you plug in a cord power source, it has problems.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Why do you always make everything more difficult than it needs to be? You have a habit of asking for advice and then not wanting to take it. Any deeper conjecture on the why will only lead to more questions and confusion. Sometimes it’s not important to know the why. Just listen to what everyone is saying and buy a new power supply.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Odds are it's something to do with your external power supply/cable, anything involving external cables tends to be less reliable than than the internal circuits of a device, Since these things usually can't be repaired, the best thing is to buy a new one.

You don't want it to be something wrong with the recorder itself, because buying a new one of these external devices is the cheapest solution to this issue.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

If connecting the external power supply (while it is not connected to the mains) causes the recorder to stop, it likely means the change from battery to mains power is a physical connections that is changed by the act of connecting the power supply, not by its output voltage. (A bit line a normal audio patch panel.)

The "low battery" message is probably due to it being the only low voltage message the machine knows how to give. A bad/weak external power supply is an unusual situation likely and not provided for in the error messages.

Checking the power supply output voltage should be done under load similar to the recorders load to get a n accurate reading. If the supply is just week (e.g., high output impedance) the no-load voltage may appear normal.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Many pieces of portable, battery-operated gear actually use the batteries as a layer of power supply filtering. Instead of having big capacitors inside the gear, they use the batteries for an extra stage of filtering so that if there is any mains ripple (which you would hear as "hum"), the batteries will smooth the voltage to make the audio circuits happy and quiet.

Any of us who use lots of electronic gear should have at least a basic DMM (Digital Multi-Meter) in our tool kit. Even if it is just a $20 generic gadget from Canadian Tire, etc. You could at least check the voltage coming out of the power supply to confirm that it is within spec. If not, then a replacement power supply would be the most likely solution.

Other potential issues could be that your electric utility power mains voltage is low. Again, even a basic DMM would be suitable for measuring the mains voltage (set for AC volts and the appropriate voltage range. I believe you have 115V nominal domestic voltage in Canadia?)

Or it could be that the recorder itself has an internal problem with the voltage sensing circuit and needs repair/replacement. It is certainly an annoying problem. Hopefully the recorder itself isn't the source of the problem.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

First question: is the AC adapter that you are now using (when trouble occurs) the same one you have always used (before the trouble started)?

Second question: Is it the factory original AC adapter, or an after-market affair?

Third question: What kind of batteries are you using? Alkaline? LiIon? NiMH? Are they the same type that you were using before the trouble started? Does the recorder have different settings for different types of batteries?

Fourth question: With no batteries, and only the AC adapter, you said "nothing" happens. Do you mean the recorder does not power up at all? Or do you mean "nothing out of the ordinary" happens (i.e. it works as it should)?

I pretty much agree with everyone else. Without more data, voltage readings, maybe a look at the schematic, we do not have enough data to say for sure why this problem occurs.

If you clearly answer the above four questions, that might get us a little closer to knowing why. But we're still in the realm of speculation until the problem is solved, or until we have a lot more data.

If you buy a new AC adapter and that solves the problem, that will tell us why.

Be absolutely sure the one you buy is electrically equivalent to the OEM adapter. Otherwise you may cause some serious damage. I have seen adapters labeled "12V" that actually put out more than 16V no load, and around 14V with one particular load. I have seen more than one device killed because of this. You do not want to fry your recorder. If you can't get adequate and accurate specs for the OEM adapter, then consider buying an OEM adapter. Better safe than sorry.

I'm always curious about problems like this. I have also learned (over the past 50 years) that guessing at an answer is not the same as logically knowing the answer. You need more data. Stop wasting time speculating. Get a new AC adapter of the correct type. Try it and see what happens. If you can't afford $20 - $30 (the cost of the dinner special at a cheap chain restaurant) for a new adapter, then you shouldn't be doing sound work.

P.S.: Two demerits if your reply begins "Oh, OK." Three demerits if it begins "Yes, but ..."

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

LOL

If I thought he had the aptitude for this type of work and could get paid gigs I’d recommend investing in more professional equipment.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Okay thanks. No I am using a different adapter now, cause the original went missing a few years ago.

The new one has been working fine over the years until now. I am using the same type of batteries before the trouble started I think. I took a break in between shoots before it started. I think the batteries are the same brand name I had before, I am pretty sure. They are just the double AA Kirkland brand you can buy. No the recorder does not seem to have different settings for different batteries.

Sorry for not being more specific. When I said nothing happens, I meant the recorder has no power at all if I remove the batteries and plug it in. It has to have batteries to have power, while plugged in.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Ryan,

You're welcome. No demerits. ;-)

With the info you provided today, we can safely conclude the following.

IMHO the problem might be:
a.) the AC adapter (including its AC line plug and its DC output connector),
b.) the recorder's connector that the AC adapter plugs into,
c.) circuitry within the recorder that is [electrically] located between connector (b.) and the recorder's logic and audio circuitry.
(In other words, it's not the fault of the batteries, but otherwise we haven't narrowed it down too much. We pretty much knew this already.)

If I were facing this situation, I'd start by checking the adapter with a multimeter. I have a meter and I know what to look for. But IIRC you don't. You could get an appropriate meter at your local Harbor Freight for $2.95 (literally). And I could try to explain the procedure by way of written dialog. That would be very time consuming for both of us. And unless I could actually see what you're doing, there's a chance for miscommunication and some resulting damage, to the meter or to the adapter. I don't want to be involved in that. If you *really* want to start using a meter, your quickest learning curve is to find someone local who can show you how. Otherwise I'm sure there are a gazillion ewe-toob videos covering the subject.

Alternatively, I can only repeat what I (and several other folks) said previously: try a new AC adapter. That's the most expeditious course of action. Again, if you know how to use a meter and you know a bit about how power supplies work, you could choose and test a third-party adapter to be sure it wouldn't damage the recorder. Otherwise, look into getting an OEM adapter that's known to work with this particular recorder. If you have Amazon prime and you can buy the adapter from them, there's a no-questions return policy if it doesn't solve the problem.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Oh okay thanks. I have a friend who has a multimeter I think, I will ask him. I will also get my hands on a new adapter and check this out and get back to you on here. Thanks.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Well I tried a new adapter. Instead of the battery indicator going empty, like the old adapter, the battery indicator is now half full. But that's strange cause of the adapter is not plugged in and it's running off just the batteries, the batteries are full according to the indicator. But when I plug in the new adapter, now the power is half full. Any reason why that could be? But still half full is better than empty and therefore no power, with the adapter plugged in.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

It’s old gear as long as it works with the new adapter is all that matters

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Yes that's true, thanks. Do you think I should replace the field recorder with something more new? I was talking to a friend about it's problem I was having and he said that since the FR2-LE is old now, that audio technology has probably improved since then and I should get something of better quality. But has it improved a lot, that it's worth it?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

You really need to get better qualified friends Ryan. Audio quality has been pretty stagnant. This is what, m 10 years old and still records in formats we use now regularly. It interfaces to things with USB - you can still get CF cards and the preamps are decent enough. The facilities it has are still found in new ones. It can manage 192KHz rates and I'd rather like one. I still have my portable HHB MD recorders from probably 20 years ago, and they too sound just as good as contemporary recorders. What significant improvements are you thinking of? What would be better quality? If it works, and the batteries are now charging fine - put the money into your new camera. I did think about offering you silly money to take the terrible thing off your hands, but I don't have the heart. Seriously, these idiots who advise you on everything sound like well meaning novices who just talk rubbish!

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

For what you're using it for it's fine. Over the past 10 years there hasn't been a lot of change in audio recorders. The newer recorders are smaller or offer more features. Recently they have combined the mixer and recorder into one unit, which is a matter of convenience. If you're not making money you should stick with what you have.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Okay thanks, I didn't think there was much change but one friend who works in audio feels that you have to turn the fader up quite high, where as on the Zoom F8, which I have also used once, you don't have to, and you have a lot more room to turn it up. Does that mean you can record more quiet sound with the F8, with less noise floor, compared to the FR2-LE?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

That would depend on the noise level of the recorder and specification of the mic. If you can't hear the noise in the headphones it's probably not going to be a factor, it's something you can check with a few practical tests. Since you're doing dramas, this shouldn't be an issue because the reverb will become a factor if the mic is too far away.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

IMO: Buy a new recorder only if:
- you are worried about the reliability
- it is missing some feature ie enhancement you really need
- you are not satisfied wit the recordings you get
- you want a recorder with a warranty (and perhaps factory support) still in effect

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

For goodness sake! It's your recorder - are you happy with the performance? If you are happy, then put two fingers up and tell your friend he is talking out of his rear end!

Who cares what the fader position is? The question is does it do the job, the way you need it doing?

If an audio device has a gain control and a channel fader, the fader position can be changed. If you like to work with enough gain available so for the occasional quiet bit you know is coming can be captured simply by raising the channel fader. OR you could have the channel fader working nearer the top and then kick yourself when you shove it and it hits the end stop. How you arrange your gain staging is up to you, and usually you experiment and work out how much gain can be applied before the noise starts to increase - for convenience with multiple inputs I run with channel faders at the same point for equal volume, however, the gain on some will be higher because either the person speaks quieter, or the mic is further away, or because that mic is a bit deafer. I know the point the preamp noise becomes a problem.

Old kit is rarely bad kit. When did the CD first burst onto the scene? Audio has been good for a long time now.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

The gold standard is Sound Devices. I've own and use the 302 on a daily basis for over a decade, the pre amps, the limiters, the build quality... not one problem.

I've thought of getting the MixPre which has the built in recorder. Anyways for any professional set you would need timegen. But this is the gear you get when your job depends on delivering results without fail.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

I just recently gave away my old Tascam HD-P2 recorder - vintage 2007 and very similar in overall size, features and performance to your Fostex. I replaced it with a Sound Devices MixPre-6 because I wanted the mixing features, USB interface, small size, rugged construction and excellent preamps in that package. But it was NOT because of recording quality or convenience of use per se. The old Tascam sounded fine and produced recordings that well exceeded the quality demands of the environments (mainly online and in classrooms) where my videos are usually shown.

My theory for prioritizing equipment purchases is generally to identify the weakest link in my system and try to upgrade one thing at a time as money permits or the special needs of an upcoming project dictate. From what I've seen of your work, the audio recorder is NOT holding you back the most - I would address your camera, lenses, tripod, lights and field recording microphones first (or spend money on some classes to improve your skills with what you already have).

- Greg

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Oh okay, I just thought if a recorder like the F8 has a fader that has more room to be turned up higher, in comparison, perhaps it could capture more quiet noises at a higher level then, if that's true?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

We've answered this Ryan. Noise issues are operator induced by incorrect gain staging - of course you could buy a new one with 100mm faders rather than 60mm ones, this would give you 40mm of extra gain, if it's important to you. Or you could buy the ones Spinal Tap used, with faders that go to 11?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Some preamps inherently have more available gain than others . A devices specifications usually state this input gain factor. I've encountered preamps with a max +50dB of gain and others with close to 80dB. +50 is usually adequate for moderate SPL levels (live music and such) but more is needed for low talker dialog. .Upstream, the microphone's sensitivity is a major factor on how much gain is needed as well.
All said, anything that goes to 11 has got to be better

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Is the "new adapter" factory original? Or did you just get some random adapter?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

What are the specification on the adapters, both the OEM and the replacement.
The specs should be on the adapter body and include:

Input Voltage
Output voltage
Output current

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Yes, there are times if dialogue is low that I feel mine could be turned up higher sometimes. Some people just have low voices it seems during certain moments. But also if I want to record quiet sounds. For example there is a scene in a project I did where an actor breaks into a character's house and has to be really quiet, so the owner character cannot hear him, and it took place in a house with mostly carpet. I recorded the footsteps myself later, and then put them in, but people said they couldn't even hear the actor walk sneakily around. So either I am really quiet in my footsteps when trying to mimic the actor's movements, or their is not enough gain on the FR2-LE to record footsteps that are trying to be quiet on carpet while walking sneakily maybe?

Oh okay, but I don't think the gain staging is incorrect when trying to record quiet footsteps on carpet is it, since in order to pick those up, I have to go really high, at least on the FR2-LE, where as I noticed on the Zoom F8, the dials seem to have more gain in comparison it seemed. However, on the F8, it seems that that there is only one gain knob her channel, and on fader. Is this why they are higher, cause the gain and fader seem to be in the same knob?

It's a random adapter that was used for something else entirely, that a friend didn't need anymore, that happened to be able to have the same plug in.

Since I got it from a friend, I am not sure what the specs are on the new one. I cannot find the specs on the original so far, it just says it's an AC adapter so far.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

How loud are your footsteps on carpet? Mine are silent?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Oh, OK. What's happening is that the adapter is wrong for that recorder. It is actually draining the charge out of the batteries, and if you leave it connected they will become lower and lower. The problem is that as you drain the electrons out of the batteries, they will develop a vacuum inside, and eventually they might implode, which could be messy to say the least.